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The people we elect aren’t the ones calling the shots, says Tufts University’s Michael Glennon. Others at SN have also voiced similar opinions so I thought this might be an interesting read for our members.
The voters who put Barack Obama in office expected some big changes. From the NSA’s warrantless wiretapping to Guantanamo Bay to the Patriot Act, candidate Obama was a defender of civil liberties and privacy, promising a dramatically different approach from his predecessor.
But six years into his administration, the Obama version of national security looks almost indistinguishable from the one he inherited. Guantanamo Bay remains open. The NSA has, if anything, become more aggressive in monitoring Americans. Drone strikes have escalated. Most recently it was reported that the same president who won a Nobel Prize in part for promoting nuclear disarmament is spending up to $1 trillion modernizing and revitalizing America’s nuclear weapons.
Why did the face in the Oval Office change but the policies remain the same? Critics tend to focus on Obama himself, a leader who perhaps has shifted with politics to take a harder line. But Tufts University political scientist Michael J. Glennon has a more pessimistic answer: Obama couldn’t have changed policies much even if he tried.
Though it’s a bedrock American principle that citizens can steer their own government by electing new officials, Glennon suggests that in practice, much of our government no longer works that way. In a new book, “National Security and Double Government,” he catalogs the ways that the defense and national security apparatus is effectively self-governing, with virtually no accountability, transparency, or checks and balances of any kind. He uses the term “double government”: There’s the one we elect, and then there’s the one behind it, steering huge swaths of policy almost unchecked. Elected officials end up serving as mere cover for the real decisions made by the bureaucracy.
[Related]: ‘National Security and Double Government’
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Lagg on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:07PM
Seriously, you're pathetic and shameless. I'm so fucking tired of this "oh what's new" or "what were you expecting" or "we can't change anything so why try :'(" crap. It's nothing but an excuse to be lazy pricks and not be ashamed of it. Just because you were expecting something outrageous or yet another NSA breach of privacy or Obama being a jackass doesn't mean you shouldn't be outraged about it and try to change it. Letting these people condition you to shrug off horrible things is just about the worst thing you can do to yourself and your given country. Yes, voting probably doesn't do what politicians tell deluded people it does. But do you really want people to take on this mindset of "oh why bother" and just not vote at all? Do you want these people to make decisions themselves without even the vague promise of repercussions?
This is shameful. It's pathetic and yet still seems to be the general consensus on how to react. Probably because it enables people to be lazy bastards. Hell this is even affecting any given internet community. That whole "ignore the troll and it'll go away" thing. Yeah. Take a look around and see where that got you. How are you enjoying the soapboxes that various pseudo-feminist groups and bible thumpers and indeed insane politicians have gotten? Are you happy that you didn't "feed" the trolls now? It's no different in real life, especially in this case.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:21PM
The office thermostat will not change the temperature much, if at all. People adjusting it are typically satisfied when it works a little or they just experience the placebo effect.
We need more outrage and hopefully pointing out how ineffective the thermostat is will convince people that something else needs to be done.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:34PM
Angry Americans of the 1770s banded together and fought a war. Angry Americans of the 2010s yell at the screen they are watching in their individual homes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:47PM
Complacency doesn't solve anything. Rage is better than that but it is useless if undirected.
Rage is one of the emotions that may motivate people to make the sacrifices you mention.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 21 2014, @09:49PM
Angry Americans in 2011 camped out in the middle of New York City and a bunch of other places for months. The authorities (local police departments with coordination and spying by the FBI) shut the peaceable assembly down by force, completely illegally, and then carefully refused to acknowledge that that kind of dissent even existed. With the end result that only a few years later, you forgot that it happened.
That's not unusual: The largest protest action in human history [wikipedia.org] is now largely down the memory hole.
You have to remember that the secret government agencies we're talking about here see social movements and organizations as a threat, and respond accordingly. They reacted that way to the labor movement, to the Civil Rights Movement, and especially the anti-Vietnam Movement. And what they learned since that period was how to attack protest movements without getting video like this [youtube.com] and this [youtube.com] replayed constantly on the news, even though it still happens [youtube.com].
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 22 2014, @09:00PM
Very few people took up arms against the British. The educational materials at the Old Stone House here in Brooklyn, where the Battle of Brooklyn was fought, put the number at 5% of the total population who did anything to resist the crown (which includes farmers who hid their harvests to keep the redcoats from appropriating them, people who handed out broadsheets, and the like). So it's quite inaccurate to think that most or even a lot of the country has to rise up at once to effect change. Small numbers of motivated people can do it.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:27PM
Okay then Mr. Leader of The Revolution, what are we going to do about it?
If voting doesn't do what they tell us it does, what other options do we have?
Are we ready for violence yet?
If not violence, where do you intend to direct the outrage you lambast others for lacking?
If you don't do something useful with it, look in the mirror at the criticism you dole out.
Pathetic.
Shameless.
Outrage without action is useless.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by velex on Tuesday October 21 2014, @08:13PM
Start at the local level. Work to get measures on state ballots.
Marijuana is being legalized. That's proof that something can be done that the Masters of the Universe don't want.
I expect things like Wolf-PAC will be significantly more difficult due to the greater threat that represents and the greater brainwashing that allows people to accept what's going on.
Support your local Libertarian or Green party. More importantly (and ironically given TFS) vote for them. Sure, maybe the Masters of the Universe would start rigging elections left and right, but that information would get out. Maybe that'd start the revolution.
Doing nothing is not the answer.
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Tuesday October 21 2014, @09:28PM
I agree completely.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Tuesday October 21 2014, @08:47PM
I write letters, I vote and I sign petitions. I know that at best they have little effect and usually end with me on a spam list from a given politician but I still do it and though I understand why others don't I still encourage it and more importantly I bring the cluebat when it needs bringing. Like right now. And don't give me this "leader of the revolution" shit. That's why your mindset is so pathetic. You think there's no space between outright rebellion and apathy. Just the fact that people acknowledge that these things are unacceptable is better than doing nothing at all. Total apathy because you feel impotent is exactly what these asshats want. They want you to expect and tolerate every little violation up until suddenly you're in a total police state (i.e. what has and is already occurring, especially in the UK).
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Tuesday October 21 2014, @10:31PM
I'm not sure what you think my mindset is, but I have a feeling you're wrong about it.
I do think there is space between violence and apathy, and I think you're in a perfect position to fill it.
I don't think that writing letters, punching ballots, or signing petitions changes much, but I'm still glad you do those things.
I just don't think they're the best use of your time, Lagg.
You can do more, though you certainly aren't obligated to.
You know the FBI wants a backdoor in all encryption? [newsweek.com]
Laughable, I know.
In the future, the code will disagree with the laws.
I would focus your outrage on the code, not the laws; you can't change the laws.
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Tuesday October 21 2014, @10:47PM
I'm probably wrong but frankly you're not giving me much to go on with hyperbole like "leader of the revolution". Yes it might not be the best use of my time but there's not much else that can be done and I'd rather do that and get some level of personal reassurance rather than being defeatist about it. As far as code goes I'm not too concerned. The only place that will be an issue is in proprietary stuff. For open source projects not only will such laws be ignored but actively fought. Hackers tend to not be too open to such things. What would likely result is the cryptography equivalent of the Streisand Effect.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 21 2014, @11:28PM
In a recent edition of The Ralph Nader Radio Hour, Ralph noted that a letter to a Congresscritter that expresses **an opinion** will just get a form letter back.
What you do is ask a question.
The staff will then have to make an effort.
In the process, they may learn something they didn't know and that may find its way to the ear of the guy who votes on stuff.
It's one of the last things in the 13MB file at about 0:50:00.
http://archive.kpfk.org/mp3/kpfk_141011_110045nader.MP3 [kpfk.org]
Immediately after that, he tells how to take a bite out of a megacorporation at almost no cost to you.
(Identify a way that you have been injured by its actions and file a case in small claims court.)
N.B. Since they "improved" their site, I can no longer link directly to their streams.
If you want that instead, it's the October 11, 11AM program.
http://archive.kpfk.org/#ad_24906 [kpfk.org]
That program will remain accessible from their archive until early January 2015.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Wednesday October 22 2014, @01:17AM
Will keep that in mind, thanks. In my experience the boilerplate responses don't really change that much from question to opinion but will try to consciously do the former.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 22 2014, @08:48PM
Nonviolence and intentional subversion of the status quo are definite measures technologists like us can undertake. I offer Napster and Edward Snowden as two ready examples. Napster single-handedly signaled the end of a multi-billion dollar, very influential industry. But it was just file-sharing software, something many of us could have written if we had wanted to. Snowden has massively imploded global perceptions of the American government, but all he did was make documents of the NSA's crimes public. He didn't even have to write software to do that; he just had to want to and to have balls of steel.
I submit that there are many, many ways each and every one of us on SN can apply our skills to kick the "shadow government" in the nads, if we want to. If you're an American and think DC and its controllers are out of control, then I would say it's your patriotic duty to do so. We as a group can be a far, far more effective force for change than X million dirty hippies waving their fists in the street.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by skullz on Tuesday October 21 2014, @07:48PM
.. various pseudo-feminist groups and bible thumpers ...
Like combating sexual assault in the .mil's? Make sure that people get paid the same for the same job work? The only thing the bible folk have managed to do recently is to close down abortion clinics but that is mostly in Texas so it really doesn't count.
(Score: 1) by Gertlex on Tuesday October 21 2014, @08:08PM
Nice words... but I can't seem them changing the views of those you refer to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22 2014, @02:35AM
What I was expecting was for Congress to keep sucking, and President Obama to only be able to get done a small percent of what he had promised to try to do and to make his policy.
As soon as I see whiners talking about Guantanamo, I know it is a steaming pile or propaganda.
I voted for Obama to be President of the United States, not Dictator of the World. If he promised to do X and his proposal once in office was to do X and Congress was able to block him, that is him doing what he said he would do. Duh.
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday October 22 2014, @03:30PM
There are four boxes to use in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
We're still barely working through the first three. What you're doing right now, complaining about it on the Internet counts as "soap." Keep doing it. Post your screeds here, on FaceBook, wherever. Talk to people about it. Yes, bitching on the Internet is part of your duty as a citizen.
Ballot hasn't had a chance yet. Next month is the first major election since the Snowden leaks came to light and the bulk of people got the message that the government is spying on everything they do. We haven't had a chance for people to listen to their representatives' stances on government spying and vote accordingly. Who knows, maybe people will vote for more spying. We don't know yet. I know I'm voting to re-elect my libertarian-leaning Republican congressman because when I wrote him a letter urging him to vote to cut funding to the spying programs he wrote me back a personal response and said "Yup, right there with you." So I got a good one. You vote for a good one, too, okay?
It'll be really interesting to see what happens in 2016. Government surveillance is obviously going to have to be addressed. There will be debate questions about it. The candidates will have to take a stance. Let's see what happens.
Jury's still grinding through the system, too. The EFF is working on it. Jewel vs. NSA and Shubert vs. Obama are going to be heard. Let's hear what the Supreme Court has to say about this.
My point is, the fact that people haven't taken to the streets with pitchforks and torches doesn't mean they don't care. It means they realize there is a slow democratic process to effect change in our society, and we have to let the machine work. It'll be years until we know the outcome. If it doesn't work, I don't know what'll happen afterwards, but telling people to take to the streets now is stupid.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22 2014, @06:13PM
What box includes a mass work stoppage? Ain't ammo: nothing violent about it. Don't protest in the streets because then you'll be arrested and beaten, just stay home and stop working, that way only the perceived ring leaders would be arrested and beaten at home, which is a very small population. If 90% of the teachers stopped working until X changed, or 90% of the nurses stopped working until Y changed, or 90% of IT folks stopped working (GASP!) until Z changed, I think X, Y, and Z would change. I just don't see any political will to do any of that.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 22 2014, @08:56PM
Glib platitudes help no one. We have arrived where we are because those first three have failed. The last is reserved for shock value to act as a GOTO 10 statement. There is another stage that is called for now, and it is active resistance. Think hard how you can use your skills to expose and undermine the pillars of the status quo. If you're a network engineer, think of how you can shut the NSA out for good. If you're a hardware hacker, teach others how to make drones. If you're a low-level sysadmin, and you become aware of crimes committed by your bosses, leak the evidence to the blogosphere.
There are many things people like us can do that are effective, if we choose to do them and if we think freedom is worth getting up off the couch for.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday October 22 2014, @09:40PM
Did you not read my post? The first three haven't failed yet. They're still being tried. Once we've had a presidential election and elected a pro-spying candidate (or one who promises to end spying and then reneges), then you can say ballot failed. Not yet. Once the EFF's lawsuits against the NSA have been lost, then you can say jury (I know judges aren't juries, but it fits the glib platitude) has failed. Not yet.
Agreed, there are things you can do in the meantime to make things more difficult for them, but ultimately this is a political problem, not a technological problem.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.