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posted by janrinok on Saturday September 11, @07:03AM   Printer-friendly

Today marks the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. These were "a series of four coordinated terrorist attacks [...] against the United States of America on the morning of Tuesday, September 11, 2001."

Of the 2,977 people who died, 2,605 were U.S. citizens and 372 non-U.S. citizens (excluding the 19 perpetrators). More than 90 countries lost citizens in the attacks, including the United Kingdom (67 deaths), the Dominican Republic (47 deaths), India (41 deaths), Greece (39 deaths), South Korea (28 deaths), Canada (24 deaths), Japan (24 deaths), Colombia (18 deaths), Jamaica (16 deaths), Philippines (16 deaths), Mexico (15 deaths), Trinidad and Tobago (14 deaths), Ecuador (13 deaths), Australia (11 deaths), Germany (11 deaths), Italy (10 deaths), Bangladesh (6 deaths), Ireland (6 deaths), Pakistan (6 deaths), and Poland (6 deaths).

It was a tragedy not only for America, but for the world.

 
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by darkfeline on Saturday September 11, @07:12AM (27 children)

    by darkfeline (1030) on Saturday September 11, @07:12AM (#1176903) Homepage

    Remember how 9/11 was used to enact a wide range of privacy invading and freedom restricting laws? Good times.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 11, @07:53AM (25 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @07:53AM (#1176907) Homepage Journal

    The thing about the Patriot Act that few people understand is, it was ready and waiting. Congress didn't pull those thousands of pages out of thin air. The Patriot Act was authored long, long before 9/11/01. They were just waiting for a crisis, to pull it off the shelf, blow the dust off, and announce, "It's time!"

    --
    Let's go Brandon!
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @08:11AM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @08:11AM (#1176914)

      There is a lot of truth to this, that it was a law enforcement wish list. Aside from the Patriot Act, 9/11 also pushed us into a state of perpetual war. We had occasional military interventions like the Gulf War, airstrikes against Iraq when Clinton wanted to distract from Ken Starr's investigation, and Clinton's illegal war in the Balkans. There wasn't anything sustained over the long term, and there just wasn't public support for wars. After 9/11, we've been fighting the so-called war on terror for 20 years, going from country to country with no real plan and no real end in sight. I believe that some excuse would have been invented to enact the provisions of the Patriot Act, with or without 9/11. I am far less certain that there would have been public support for starting forever wars were it not for 9/11. At this point, we don't have the willingness to repeal the AUMFs from that era, and I don't know what would actually make us willing to do so.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:04AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:04AM (#1176932)

        Congress repealed the AUMF for both Iraq wars just a few weeks ago.

        The one for Afghanistan can't quite be repealed yet because they are still busy bungling the withdrawal.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @01:23PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @01:23PM (#1176982)

        We were already in a state of perpetual war, it was just not known or advertised to most Americans. "Communists" were the excuse until they weren't, then "filthy brown turrists" became a replacement target.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:03PM (#1177013)

          The Communists/Socialists/Statists HAVE been at perpetual war with the West since WWI.
          They took command during the coronavirus scare, after laying the groundwork for many years.
          New World Order--that Aussie politician said so herself.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Saturday September 11, @05:48PM (4 children)

          by Thexalon (636) on Saturday September 11, @05:48PM (#1177035)

          A striking example is that the US has been involved in the fighting in Colombia since the 1980's with approximately zero public debate. Allegedly to stop the growing of cocaine, but mostly to prop up the fairly-right-wing government we supported.

          --
          The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
          • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @09:57PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @09:57PM (#1177111)

            > fairly-right-wing

            I guess the Overton window has moved so far to the right that anyone to the left of Hitler, even if only on a single issue, is a centrist now.

            Bolsonaro is an actual fascist.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:24PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:24PM (#1177116)

              Bolsonaro is Brazilian?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:34PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @10:34PM (#1177117)

              With takes like that, you must need a helmet to eat soup.

            • (Score: 4, Touché) by Thexalon on Sunday September 12, @01:05AM

              by Thexalon (636) on Sunday September 12, @01:05AM (#1177143)

              Bolsonaro is indeed fascist, but he's president of Brazil, not part of the government of Colombia. I know this may come as a surprise to you, but different countries in South America are different from each other and have different internal politics.

              --
              The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @06:10PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @06:10PM (#1177037)

        and the Jews are behind all of that and more, aided by their shabbos goy race traitor whites of course..

        • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Sunday September 12, @12:07AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @12:07AM (#1177131) Journal
          Given how capable "the Jews" are and how incapable you are, it seems to me that the better strategy is figuring out how to steer the Jewish conspiracy for the greater good rather than whine that you're not competing with that.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by UncleSlacky on Saturday September 11, @12:25PM

      by UncleSlacky (2859) on Saturday September 11, @12:25PM (#1176961)

      Yep, in fact Joe Biden bragged on several occasions that he wrote what became the PATRIOT act: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/surveillance-joe [buzzfeednews.com]

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday September 11, @06:07PM (12 children)

      by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday September 11, @06:07PM (#1177036)

      The thing about the Patriot Act that few people understand is, it was ready and waiting.

      Project for a new American Century [wikipedia.org] was a think tank of neo conservatives, many ended up in the G.W.Bush administration, that in 1998 published a report that contained a "wish list" of changes to surveillance laws and search powers by law enforcement agencies, The PATRIOT act enabled every one of those changes.

      The report also called for regime change in Iraq.

      Of particular note is the fact that the report itself pointed out that the listed changes would be impossible to enact unless there was a "modern Pearl Harbor".

      --
      "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 11, @09:15PM (10 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @09:15PM (#1177094) Homepage Journal

        For what it's worth, that PNAC site changed pretty dramatically in the months after Bush was elected. First time I landed on the page (someone posted a link in a forum) it spelled out pretty explicitly that the goal was to have every man, woman, and child on earth working to enrich Wall Street. Over several months, the language was sanitized, to be less obvious about enslaving the world for Wall Street profit. Neocons are little better than neonazis.

        --
        Let's go Brandon!
        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday September 11, @11:36PM (9 children)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday September 11, @11:36PM (#1177125) Journal

          So, everything was a lie? Except for the Bin Laden part? I'm still waiting for justification for the invasion

          --
          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 12, @12:04AM (8 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @12:04AM (#1177130) Homepage Journal

            Haven't we had this discussion before? Bin Laden justified a punitive expedition. He did not justify a lifetime of killing brown men and women and children. I'm surprised liberals don't call it a genocide - we were intent on erasing a way of life, and imposing our own way of life on them.

            --
            Let's go Brandon!
            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 12, @01:12AM (6 children)

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday September 12, @01:12AM (#1177144) Journal

              Bin Laden justified a punitive expedition.

              You have yet to show how, other than official press release

              --
              Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 12, @02:05AM (5 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @02:05AM (#1177150) Homepage Journal

                I say it was justified. Laden bloodied our noses, he ran off to hide in Afghanistan, brief talks with the Taliban saw them thumb their noses at us, so we should have gone in and kicked ass. Then, as I've said several times already, we should have GTFO. Total length of campaign 18 months, with a target of 10 months.

                --
                Let's go Brandon!
                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 12, @02:12AM (4 children)

                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday September 12, @02:12AM (#1177151) Journal

                  brief talks with the Taliban saw them thumb their noses at us

                  Not true. They demanded evidence before turning him over, as any reasonable person would do. The US refused and invaded.

                  --
                  Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 12, @02:30AM (3 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @02:30AM (#1177156) Homepage Journal

                    They didn't demand proof so much as they demanded payment, and that bin Laden would be tried in a "neutral" country - that is a Muslim country.

                    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/09/20/newly-disclosed-documents-shed-more-light-on-early-taliban-offers-pakistan-role/ [foreignpolicyjournal.com]

                    Note that these negotiations were taking place BEFORE 9/11/01.

                    --
                    Let's go Brandon!
                    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 12, @02:48AM (2 children)

                      by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday September 12, @02:48AM (#1177159) Journal

                      Heh, your link confirms everything I said about the refusal to provide evidence. The invasion was already planned and authorized. Your Bin Laden was the sales pitch, and you fell for it. You chose to believe the lie.

                      --
                      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 12, @06:07AM (1 child)

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @06:07AM (#1177181) Homepage Journal

                        Heh, your link confirms everything I said about the refusal to provide evidence.

                        You're ignoring that bin Laden was the primary source of contention, before and after 9/11?

                        --
                        Let's go Brandon!
                        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 12, @04:59PM

                          by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday September 12, @04:59PM (#1177243) Journal

                          You never verified the authenticity of any "Bin Laden" communiques. You certainly never allowed any cross examination. You accepted the belligerent's translation at face value. See, because the ones I remember admitted no guilt, only pleasure. Your hearsay is even more feeble (and deadly) than Russiagate.

                          --
                          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
            • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday September 13, @01:51PM

              by Freeman (732) on Monday September 13, @01:51PM (#1177404) Journal

              Attacking a country, because they bombed you first, doesn't mean you are committing genocide.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide [wikipedia.org]

              The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group. Victims have to be deliberately, not randomly, targeted because of their real or perceived membership of one of the four groups outlined in the above definition.[4][5][6][7]

              I'm still on the fence with regards to having responded in any direct way. Let alone, starting a war, so we could target an individual for Assassination. Which, is still illegal, right?

              Ah, there we go, "targeted killing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killing [wikipedia.org]
              So, as long as you declare war, it's open season.

              Then there's this bit:

              Obama Administration position on combat drones
              [...]
              NBC News released in February 2014 an undated Department of Justice White paper entitled "Lawfulness of a Lethal Operation Directed Against a U.S. Citizen who is a Senior Operational Leader of Al Qa'ida or An Associated Force" in which the Obama Administration concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be "senior operational leaders" of al-Qaida or "an associated force" – even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.[88][89] However any such targeted killing operation by the United States would have to comply with the four fundamental law-of-war principles governing the use of force which are necessity, distinction, proportionality and humanity – i.e., the avoidance of unnecessary suffering. (Page 8 of[89]). The memo also discusses why targeted killings would not be a war crime or violate a U.S. executive order banning assassinations:

              "A lawful killing in self-defense is not an assassination. In the Department's view, a lethal operation conducted against a U.S. citizen whose conduct poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States would be a legitimate act of national self-defense that would not violate the assassination ban. Similarly, the use of lethal force, consistent with the laws of war, against an individual who is a legitimate military target would be lawful and would not violate the assassination ban."[88]

              I guess it's "not a problem", until it becomes one. That is one slippery slope.

              --
              Forced Microsoft Account for Windows Login → Switch to Linux.
      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday September 13, @06:44PM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Monday September 13, @06:44PM (#1177464)

        Not to be crude [youtu.be] (ok, fine, no way of getting around it), but I'm imagining the reaction of the authors and proponents of that legislation after the initial shock ...

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @09:02AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @09:02AM (#1176920)
    I think it was also used to help justify bullshit wars thousands of miles away.

    The USA had some sympathy from the rest of the world after 9/11 but the USA sure fixed that quickly.