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posted by janrinok on Saturday September 11, @07:03AM   Printer-friendly

Today marks the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. These were "a series of four coordinated terrorist attacks [...] against the United States of America on the morning of Tuesday, September 11, 2001."

Of the 2,977 people who died, 2,605 were U.S. citizens and 372 non-U.S. citizens (excluding the 19 perpetrators). More than 90 countries lost citizens in the attacks, including the United Kingdom (67 deaths), the Dominican Republic (47 deaths), India (41 deaths), Greece (39 deaths), South Korea (28 deaths), Canada (24 deaths), Japan (24 deaths), Colombia (18 deaths), Jamaica (16 deaths), Philippines (16 deaths), Mexico (15 deaths), Trinidad and Tobago (14 deaths), Ecuador (13 deaths), Australia (11 deaths), Germany (11 deaths), Italy (10 deaths), Bangladesh (6 deaths), Ireland (6 deaths), Pakistan (6 deaths), and Poland (6 deaths).

It was a tragedy not only for America, but for the world.

 
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @12:09PM (23 children)

    by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @12:09PM (#1176955)

    Instead of sitting down and pondering why the heck this happened and why they did that, we reacted like a beaten animal: We bit back. And when we couldn't find the person who hit us, we just bit anyone. In the words of a German comedian:

    "Did we kill Bin Laden?"
    "Nope, can't find the guy."
    "So... let's kill Saddam Hussein."
    "Why, what's he gotta do with the shit?"
    "Nothing, but at least we know where he is".

    And we destabilized the region by removing pretty much the only thing that kept the whole IS crap under the lid. Don't get me wrong, Saddam was an asshole. But not only was he our asshole for the longest time (after all he was our guy to spank about that Ayatollah next door when the towelhead kicked our figurehead out and kept all those spiffy and back then cutting edge F-14 jets), he was also about as anti-islamist as you can get away with in the general region there.

    Now, with Saddam removed, the IS had room to move in.

    And I guess I don't have to mention just how splendid we handled the whole deal with Afghanistan, that one isn't even something you need to know recent history for, just watching the news should do.

    Yeah. It sure was a tragic 20 years.

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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @12:15PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @12:15PM (#1176957)

    Plans to remove Saddam were being discussed before 9/11, and accelerated on the day of 9/11. It wasn't an accident that we went there.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @12:29PM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @12:29PM (#1176965)

      No, it was no accident, it was a mistake.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @12:52PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @12:52PM (#1176972)

    >> And I guess I don't have to mention just how splendid we handled the whole deal with Afghanistan

    You can thank Runaway Joe for leaving before we got the job done.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @01:08PM (3 children)

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @01:08PM (#1176980)

      There was no job to be done. It took Russia only 10 years to finally realize that, the US took as usual the special kid length to figure it out.

      You cannot "win" Afghanistan. There isn't anything you can do about this. Afghanistan is a hodgepodge conglomerate of warlords and chieftains who bicker with each other unless you give them an external force to bicker with. That's it. And even if you can somehow get some warlord to side with you, it basically means that the rest of the bunch immediately starts to hate on you because you threaten their power base.

      How the hell do you want to "get this done"?

      You can waste as much or as little military budget as you like on it, it ain't my money, enjoy and have fun, but really "getting anything done" there isn't exactly an option. It's a great distraction from internal troubles, that's what it did reasonably well for both, Russia and the US, but in the end, there's cheaper ways to distract from internal problems.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:10PM (#1177016)

        The Taliban had managed to slash opium production, so yeah there was a job to be done.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:48PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @04:48PM (#1177024)

        You certainly can't "win" Afghanistan if your goal is to turn it into a 21st Century Woke paradise. The Biden administration's biggest stated concern with the Taliban after our withdrawal was that their government didn't have enough women in it. Jesus! EVERYBODY is in for some REAL pain... Not the "First World problems" of the faculty lounge...

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @06:22PM

          by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @06:22PM (#1177042)

          You can't "win" Afghanistan without accepting that a different culture has different values. You think you go to a country and they'll welcome you with open arms because your way of life is the best thing since sliced bread. It may be for you. Ok. But other people have other ideas of what's good for them.

          Yes, that may even be wrong. But that doesn't mean that you can go there, replace their culture with yours because "yours is better" (and I don't even want to discuss whether it is) and expect them to like it.

          In my country, universal healthcare is a thing. And we treasure it. It's one of those "from my cold, dead hands" things quite similar to the US' 2nd amendment. Anyone even pondering to think about taking it away can pretty much kiss his political career good-bye. Yes, we think it's the best thing since sliced bread. And we honestly think that you're stupid that you don't want it.

          But that doesn't meant that it could or should be forced upon you. You don't want it. Ok. We don't get it, we really don't, because to us, it's pretty much a given that it IS the superior way to do it, but hey, it's your country. It's your decision.

          And that's pretty much what is the case with Afghanistan. And, bluntly, a lot of other places that you try to meddle in. You can't win by trying to force your way of life onto these people. Before you can do something like that, you might want to try to understand the mentality of a people. Else you'll just be seen as some kind of invader who tries to push a doctrine that the people you try to "bless" with your superior ideology don't even understand, or understand why it is supposedly better than what they consider good.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @07:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @07:49PM (#1177070)

      You can thank Runaway Joe for leaving before we got the job done.

      And the first job was to figure out what the job was. Never did finish that job. Twenty years, of wasted lives and rich contractors.

  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @01:23PM (11 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @01:23PM (#1176983) Journal

    And we destabilized the region by removing pretty much the only thing that kept the whole IS crap under the lid.

    That's how dictators operate. Destabilize everything until their presence is the only thing keeping it together. It didn't quite work out for Assad.

    • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @01:26PM (10 children)

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @01:26PM (#1176984)

      He didn't have to destabilize anything, we were pretty effective at that already.

      The history of the Middle East is one of blunders. Ours, theirs, and most of all one of post-colonialism. If you draw lines arbitrarily in the sand without giving half a shit about where peoples live, you create future conflicts.

      That's not exactly a surprise, is it?

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @05:26PM (7 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @05:26PM (#1177031) Journal

        He didn't have to destabilize anything,

        To the contrary, he probably did in order to stay in power. The factions of Iraq would need to be balanced against each so that no faction grows organized enough to take out Saddam. Common outcome is that when the strongman goes away, the factions turn on each other.

        • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @06:14PM (6 children)

          by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @06:14PM (#1177039)

          Well, the solution to Yugoslavia was to have a civil war, then break apart and form a bunch of increasingly successful successor states.

          Then again, they were lucky. They had no oil. And an EU next door that is quite interested in stable neighbors.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @07:30PM (5 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @07:30PM (#1177061) Journal
            Exactly. They weren't particularly lucky since the civil war lasted a while and there was a bit of genocide in there.
            • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @08:28PM (4 children)

              by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @08:28PM (#1177082)

              Well, compared to Iraq...

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @08:41PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @08:41PM (#1177086) Journal
                Not much different is it?
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @11:35PM (2 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @11:35PM (#1177124) Journal
                Also note that IS really was created by the destabilization of Syria rather than Iraq. And that happened while Bashar al-Assad was in command.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 12, @01:56AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 12, @01:56AM (#1177148)

                  Uh, only because we started bombing them.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday September 12, @11:05AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 12, @11:05AM (#1177204) Journal
                    The Syrian civil war started in 2011 with the Arab Spring. ISIL's invasion of Iraq started at the end of 2013. Any bombing of ISIL in Syria by the US and allies would have happened after that. So no the timing is wrong for your narrative.
      • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday September 11, @06:18PM

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday September 11, @06:18PM (#1177040)

        If you draw lines arbitrarily in the sand without giving half a shit about where peoples live, you create future conflicts.

        Sadly even when you do give a shit about where people live they will still attack their neighbors for some reason, ranging from religion, resources, imagined slights that happened 100s of years ago, etc.. Just look at India and Pakistan. That border was drawn with full thought to where the different groups lived and the border is still a cluster fuck.

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday September 11, @11:33PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @11:33PM (#1177123) Journal

        If you draw lines arbitrarily in the sand without giving half a shit about where peoples live, you create future conflicts.

        I agree with Pinky on this one. You can't draw a line that will fix what's wrong with the Middle East or anywhere else where conflicts are neighbor to neighbor rather than well defined regions.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @06:18PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 11, @06:18PM (#1177041)

    Your naivete is ridiculous. As if this was not all planned for reasons you can't seem to comprehend even though the rat turds are everywhere.

    • (Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday September 11, @10:56PM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday September 11, @10:56PM (#1177120)

      C'mon, spill it, what nefarious evil shadow government is it this time?

  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 11, @09:30PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 11, @09:30PM (#1177101) Homepage Journal

    Thank you for that observation.

    No matter how much we hated Saddam, he and his political machine were a stabilizing force in an unstable region. But, heads assplode when you explain that to people.

    --
    Let's go Brandon!