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Delta Air Lines calls for carriers to share names of unruly passengers:
Delta Air Lines is calling for an industry-wide effort to keep passengers from boarding competitors' flights after being banned for disruptive behavior.
So far this year, Delta says it has submitted the names of more than 600 banned passengers to the Federal Aviation Administration, which has sought to enforce rules against interfering with flight crews. The industry has seen a surge in poor behavior and banned passengers in recent months, with the bulk of incidents related to face mask requirements.
"We've also asked other airlines to share their 'no fly' list to further protect airline employees across the industry," Delta said in a memo this week. "A list of banned customers doesn't work as well if that customer can fly with another airline."
The company did not say whether sharing of passenger lists should be through the federal government or among companies themselves, and declined to elaborate. Delta said it has more than 1,600 people on its internal no-fly list and did not clarify why it submitted fewer than that to the FAA.
[...] The FAA was noncommittal about the idea Friday, saying in a statement the agency "is meeting with airports, airlines, unions, and others to discuss what additional steps the FAA and our industry partners can collectively take to continue driving down the number of unruly passenger incidents."
The agency said its latest data shows a decline in the rate of unruly passenger incidents. It said that as of last week, incidents involving unruly passengers occurred about six times in every 10,000 flights.
"That's an approximately 50 percent drop from early 2021, but it's more than twice as high as the end of 2020," the agency said Thursday.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:08PM (64 children)
Who counts as "unruly" enough to be added to the corporate blacklist/banlist/enemies-of-the-people lists?
- People wearing political party hats?
- Corporate whistleblowers?
- Some guy who tweeted something about that thing once?
- Iranians?
- Upstart competitors to favored suppliers?
- People with annoying laughs?
- Couples with children?
If the last 5 year have taught us anything it is that vesting power in the hands of private industry is the dumbest thing any society could possibly do.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by rigrig on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:22PM
It'll be a sliding scale:
At the moment airlines get to decide "you've caused so much trouble it's not worth the profit we make from your ticket.", balanced by the fact that if they overreact, competitors will happily take that profit.
But if this goes through it'll be "you better behave exactly as we tell you, or we can make sure you never fly again". (and "oops, we added you to the no-fly list, totally accidental and unrelated to your negative review")
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:24PM (11 children)
You are right on until your final sentence.
The lesson you should've learned is that broad, arbitrary power granted to ANYONE is ripe for abuse. You think GOVT is better in this regard? Jesus!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:52PM
After finish your consideration about power, you may try to remember the thing called common-sense.
Now, I know it was diluted to extinction in USofA, but the path to resurrect it starts with "do not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you".
Just as simple as "don't be a dick" for the simple sake of not being a dick, not because the others may be better hung and a better fucker than you. I don't know, as a side effect you may have the time to enjoy life, not being busy with pissing contests.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday September 26 2021, @01:11PM (1 child)
The whole point of democracy is to keep the power of the government in check. And while in practice it might not work as well as intended, it's still far better than the effective autocracy you get from private companies.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:00PM
> The whole point of democracy is to keep the power of the government in check.
BZZZT. Wrong. The whole point of democracy is to represent US.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Opportunist on Sunday September 26 2021, @02:11PM (6 children)
The difference is maybe that, at least in a democracy, if your government is a bunch of fuckheads, you can get rid of them within 4-5 years.
Try that with the board of a corporation unless you have the money to just buy and fire them.
(Score: 3, Informative) by ChrisMaple on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:22PM (5 children)
Alas, it takes more money to buy the resources needed to win a Presidential election than it does to buy the resources needed to win a board of directors election. The exceptions include privately held companies and corporations like the New York Times where publicly held shares can't affect corporate control.
Modern Presidential campaigns cost in excess of one billion dollars with no guarantee of victory.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:45PM
And how much for a Manchin or Sinema? Can't be that high, see Boebert or MTG.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:03PM
> Modern Presidential campaigns cost in excess of one billion dollars with no guarantee of victory.
That's why we allow unlimited donations by for-profit corporations. Duh.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Opportunist on Sunday September 26 2021, @08:42PM (2 children)
I'm talking about a functional democracy, not the USA.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:45PM (1 child)
Every government has corruption. Don't kid yourself or bullshit others.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:04PM
Sure, but whether it is still functional depends on the degree.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:58PM
> You think GOVT is better in this regard?
Yes.
> Jesus!
No.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @12:25PM
Let me guess, you voted for the "law and order, small government, starve the beast" party?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @02:00PM (5 children)
Spoken like a true trumptard.
What people like you are advocating is the right to be an asshole and piss-off everyone, without consequences.
Get this through your thick skull: There is no reality, no alternate universe in which you can act in a dislikeable way without being disliked.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @03:27PM (2 children)
So we can just shoot Antifa rioters then?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:22PM (1 child)
Sounds like you want a free trip to prison. Hope you get it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:40PM
I'll see ya there!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:34PM (1 child)
He's not completely wrong though. Slippery slopes exist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @04:47PM
Just don't drop your soap ba... oh, no, you've dunnit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Tork on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:25PM (2 children)
Umm ok... that lesson should have been that businesses are under no obligation to serve toxic customers. Violence is the common element here, so it's not like the problem just goes away if you nerf private industry.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:59PM (1 child)
Plus, it's a liability issue.
"Hey, this tastes funny."
"Let me see -- ooh, this isn't good. Hey Jeff, I think we accidentally served one of the toxic ones. Can you replace it with one prepared out of our actual livestock meat freezer instead?"
"We're very sorry, we'll get you out a fresh one right away."
(Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:29PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 26 2021, @05:25PM (39 children)
Let's not play games. "Unruly" is pretty clear cut. The timid response is the frustrating thing
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @07:43PM (38 children)
No, "unruly" is not really clear cut. Define it precisely. Do I merely need give the flight attendant a cross-eyed look, or must it be the evil eye? A little bit of talking back, or do I have to assault her? If I have to assault her, does it require a mere backhand, or must I give her a solid right jab?
If the airline defines "unruly" it might mean any damned thing at all.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @09:31PM (8 children)
In the specific case here, the scenario is that you are an asshat who refuses to wear a fucking mask even after the flight attendant has reminded you to, "Please wear your mask."
When you stand up screaming about muh freedums, "You can't make me wear a mask, I have a 2nd Amendment right!" while spraying spittle on the flight attendant and all the passengers within a 15' (5m) radius, you are unruly.
When you refuse to leave the plane (that is your other option if you do not want to just fucking wear a fucking mask), you are unruly.
When you push, threaten, and/or hit the flight attendant or the normal sane mask wearing people in the seats next to yours who also don't want to share their flight with Typhoid Mary, and also have also asked you to, "please wear a mask." you are unruly.
I'm not comfortable with the industry-wide blacklist, but I can understand the motivation behind it. The anti-maskers are entitled little pricks who scream and yell and assault people. The problem is that once you have the infrastructure in place, it will be abused for other things.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:08PM (6 children)
Make up your mind. Either the end justifies the means, or it doesn't.
The rest of your rant is just that - a rant.
Seasons don't fear the COVID. [youtube.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:49PM (5 children)
I was clear. End doesn't justify the means. But, anti-mask asshats are disruptive entitled little pricks and are bringing this on themselves and everyone else too.
Just witnessed an anti-mask moron screaming at a grocery store, yesterday. The ~50 yr. old idiot threatened a little 80 year old lady and her husband. Ran screaming around the store when a bagger firmly, but politely asked him to leave. Finally was herded out of the store by a checker and the bagger. Then continued to scream and pitch a fit just outside the door, and threatened the little old lady as she tried to exit the store. Anti-maskers are assholes who brought all of this on themselves, first by being inconsiderate to every other person and spreading disease, and second by attacking those who ask them to try to, at least, pretend to be considerate adults when in public.
If we end up with authoritarian laws as a result of the pandemic, there will be a direct line between the behavior of these morons, and the public's acceptance of these laws. In the context of the pandemic, anti-maskers and anti-vaxers are why we can't have nice things (i.e., end to the fucking pandemic that these entitled little pricks keep extending with their irresponsible behavior).
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:11PM (4 children)
*yawn*
All that you are saying is, you disagree with anti-maskers, you disagree with authoritarians, but, the means (authoritarianism) justifies the ends (forcing me to mask up so that you feel good). You'll feel better when you get past your confusion.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:48PM (2 children)
I find it hard to believe that someone modded you up for this. Got your sock puppets back huh?
So, you are one of the morons extending this pandemic. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.
You keep battling that strawman. Doesn't change the fact that you and your ideological fellows have extended the pandemic, cost thousands of lives, and will make authoritarian laws more palatable to the populace, if they think the laws might help get us back to normalcy sooner.
This is on you.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @12:01AM (1 child)
Yep, 37 strawmen at last count. It must really chafe your ass that some people agree with me on some issues. Other people agree with me on other issues. It bothers you to no end that everyone doesn't fall in line like good little ducks, and kneel to the CTRL-Left.
Extending the pandemic? Sorry, but you sound like an idiot with that. This COVID thing is related to the common cold - surely you've been told that at some point? https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2 [nih.gov] Get back to me when you've cured that common cold, but the COVIDS are still going around.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @05:06AM
I've agreed with you sometimes in your fleeting moments of rationality. You spew ignorant bullshit most of the time, but occasionally you make seemingly thoughtful and insightful comments.
FYI, in this thread, your comments are solidly in the ignorant bullshit category.
To help with your ignorance, a strawman is when you invent an position for the person you are debating, and argue against that invented position because it is too hard to actually address your opponent's argument. I don't doubt you have done this, at least, "37 times and counting." But, it is nothing to be proud of.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @02:01AM
Runaway1956 suppressed yet another swath of his neurons in his struggle to maintain his cognitive dissonance.
The wonder is that he still seems to have unsupressed neurons, probably he needs them to control his bladder. How long they'll last?
And by doing this, he gets to defend a prick that doesn't let a couple in their 80-ies make their choices in regards with wearing a mask.
For the sake of the small part of the world Runaway1956 interfere with, I do hope that he loses the control of his bladder sooner, at least this will keep him busy with more real world things.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @05:22PM
Agreed with both. However, I don't think a industry-wide blacklist is needed. This can be a free-market thing.
If Delta locally blacklists a person, then they can fly United. It costs them more (implicit because it is their 2nd choice), but they can still travel. If they still act poorly and United blocks them, then they can fly Alaskan. it costs them even more (implicit because it is their 3rd choice), but they can still travel. If they continue to act poorly, the personal cost of travel in terms of time and money will continue to escalate until they learn or they are entirely banned.
My main concern is that if there is enough demand, a "typhoid airline: you can do whatever you want here" might spring up... which I'm not sure what I'd think about. I guess it keeps people segregated, but it also will increase the spread of disease across society.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:30PM (19 children)
Yeah.. So sit down and shut up.. Pretty simple, ain't it? And keep your damn mask on!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:36PM (18 children)
Nope. It really ain't that simple. Well, maybe it is for the simple minded.
I spent five years aboard Navy ships. I stood up for my rights, and my shipmate's rights then. WTF would I submit to some chickenshit airline directive today? You think Captain Chickenshit on an airline has more authority than a Navy Captain?
Oh yeah - blow that mask out your arse. Scroll back up, click the link, and enjoy the music.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 26 2021, @10:47PM (10 children)
It's their ship. They can do what they want. If it was up to me, you would just be tossed overboard. No tolerance for assholes on an airplane. The rules aren't just "suggestions". The most frustrating thing about all this crap is the timid reaction. A little "brutality" against it will be more than welcome
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:13PM (9 children)
Well, fuck you very much.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:20PM (8 children)
What's the problem? Your side is winning. They just get on the next plane.
:-) Oh wait, I forgot... heheh... I feel so very sorry
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:38PM (7 children)
Actually, "my side" doesn't fly. It might be too far to scroll up, so I'll just tell you that the TSA drove the final nail in the airline's coffin. It wasn't the crap food, or the crowded seats, or the sometimes rude flight attendants. It certainly wasn't the crap entertainment - especially since the advent of Walkman and ever improving self entertainment devices. It wasn't the dirty rest rooms. Or the dirty seats. The long waits came close, but that wasn't it either. That final nail in the coffin came when queerbait SOBs insisted that they have the right to feel up children, grandparents, servicemen and women, business people, teens, veterans, foreigners, Muslims, Christians, native Americans, and anyone who doesn't fit into any of the preceding slots.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday September 26 2021, @11:41PM (6 children)
All that shit happens before you get on the plane.
Let's arm the cabin crew with tranquilizer darts..
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @12:04AM (4 children)
Which only goes to show how dense you have to be to tolerate shitty service on the plane, after having endured sexual assault just to get on the plane.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday September 27 2021, @02:33AM (3 children)
Yeah, so why let the passengers make it worse? I want peace and quiet on the plane. I don't care how it's done, as long as it's done. Let the screamers ride Greyhound
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @02:37AM (2 children)
I guess you just don't get it. All those passengers wanted was a nice, peaceful flight to wherever they were going. Then, some busybody got up in their faces, whining about a stupid mask. So put those whiners on Greyhound. Are you truly incapable of seeing the problem from more than one side?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday September 27 2021, @02:57AM
By "busybody", you mean passenger or crew? With the crew, there is only one side. You want to get on a plane, like it or not, you do what they tell you to do. Mask on, tray up! bitch! I mean that in the nicest possible way, don't take it personal. Of course it's always best to have your camera running in case you need to file a grievance, just like with the cops or having a dash cam.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @05:32AM
Passengers and crew just wanted to have a routine flight with as minimal risk as possible. And, some anti-masker moron got up in their faces assaulting them with potentially infected spittle.
You have a right to swing your arm, but that right ends several inches away from other peoples' faces. Same thing with mask wearing in enclosed spaces. By refusing to wear a mask which is *proven* to lower the transmission of covid, you are doing the equivalent of punching people in the face while whining about your right to swing your arm.
In the last 28 days, the US has been cleansed of over 50,000 of you selfish entitled anti-mask/anti-vax morons, which is-- just pathetic, as most of those deaths were preventable. Also, pathetic, the four million new cases in the US over that same 28 day period mainly because of anti-vax and anti-mask morons.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 [arcgis.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @02:03AM
Can we add about 10mg of ricin in that tranquilizer? It's not that much.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @06:37AM (6 children)
Yes, quite a bit more actually. Not only are commanding officers of the United States Navy subject to the civilian laws of the sea and air but they also have to comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice and all that entails.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @06:54AM (5 children)
That would be funny, if you had any idea what you're talking about. No, a pilot doesn't have nearly the authority of Navy Captain. He can't convene a summary court martial, and have you executed, for example.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @09:30AM (4 children)
A couple problems there. A commanding officer of a vessel cannot call a summary court martial without the consent of the enlisted personnel and the maximum penalty for a summary court martial is well below execution for all pay grades. The commanding officer of a civilian aircraft doesn't even need a formal procedure before instituting negative consequences beyond the reduction in privileges and they also have the ability to call for summary proceedings and administrative punishment.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @10:53AM (3 children)
You presume peacetime conditions, among other things. It is entirely possible for a man to be summarily executed without benefit of any court in war time. But, you've committed yourself to the idea that a civilian has more authority than a Navy captain, so you go ahead and double down.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @09:07PM (2 children)
The UCMJ applies in both peacetime and in war. I'm truly curious where you think it says that it does not so as to allow the execution you describe.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 28 2021, @04:45AM (1 child)
You're a lawyer, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 28 2021, @07:09AM
I'm closer to being one then you are, since I can actually read what the law says. Still waiting for your answer, though.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @03:01AM (8 children)
Unruly is what the Delta airlines consider to be so as condition to use their property and obtain a service from them.
Private property rules, remember? As long as they keep it legal, you are not entitled to do anything they don't like and tell you so in advance. So if they tell you "Wear a mask or get out my property", you will better do it as they tell you. Even more so as they told you this in advance.
By the way, it's the same set of laws that guarantees you can enjoy the freedom of using your private property as you like. Do you really want the private property protection weakened? Think twice, asshole, is you are still able to do the thinking. If their private property rights are limited, yours will be a lot more; simply because you have a lot less resources to counteract the weakening.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @03:29AM (7 children)
An airliner is not exactly "private". On genuinely private property, you can exclude anyone, for any reason, be that reason religous, racist, sexist, ageist, or whatever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @10:39AM (6 children)
It is private property fullstop. The owner gets to decide how it is used, the owner is entitled to give exactly a shit or not even that about your liking.
Suck it, snowflake, nobody owes you the use of their property the way you see fit. Take your freedumb and walk away.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @10:56AM (5 children)
ROFLMAO - you're so full of shit.
How long has it been since restaurant managers have been able to bar blacks, gays, Muslims, cripples, or whatever? If you serve the public, you serve the public.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @11:13AM (4 children)
The more you talk, the more evident your stupidity.
The rules that Delta set upfront as conditions for anyone to access their services, are they illegal? Nope, perfectly legal, no discrimination by any legal definition of it. If Delta says "thou shall wear a mask and behave as a condition of me providing the service to you", those rules stand no matter "blacks, gays, Muslims, cripples, or whatever"
Anyone who attempts to use their service and breach those condition is unruly. No ifs, no buts. Arguing anything else only show incapacity to comprehend even the basic facts of life. The sooner you get this through your thick skull of an entitled snowflake idiot, the better is for you; at least you have an opportunity to spend your time doing something useful instead of persisting in stupidity.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @12:42PM (3 children)
Those rules are for people willing to be dictated to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @02:34PM (2 children)
Says the idiot afflicted by cognitive dissonance who voted the "law and order" agenda. Or are you sympathizing with Antifa in retrospect?
No, better let it drop, I don't actually want to know the depths you are willing to go to rationalize your idiocy.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 27 2021, @03:22PM (1 child)
I have never voted for any Clinton, or Biden, or for Harris.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 27 2021, @06:59PM
If there was any justice your curious kind of stupidity would hurt. A lot .
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Sunday September 26 2021, @06:34PM
That's just great. Congratulations, you just invented the next TikTok/Instagram challenge.