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posted by janrinok on Wednesday September 29 2021, @02:06PM   Printer-friendly

From: Techdirt

Content moderation is a can of worms. For Internet infrastructure intermediaries, it’s a can of worms that they are particularly poorly positioned to tackle. And yet Internet infrastructure elements are increasingly being called on to moderate content—content they may have very little insight into as it passes through their systems.

The vast majority of all content moderation happens on the “top” layer of the internet—such as social media and websites, places online that are the most visible to an average user. If a post violates a platform’s terms of service, the post is usually blocked or taken down. If a user continues to post content that violates a platform’s terms, then the user’s account is often suspended. These types of content moderation practices are increasingly understood by average Internet users.

Less often discussed or understood are the types of services facilitated via actors in the Internet ecosystem that both support and exist under the upper content layers of the Internet.

Many of these companies host content, supply cloud services, register domain names, provide web security, and many more features of what could be described as the plumbing services of the Internet. But instead of water and sewage, the Internet deals in digital information. In theory, these “infrastructure intermediaries” could moderate content, but for reasons of convention, legitimacy, and practicality they don’t usually do it on purpose.

However, some notable recent exemptions may be setting precedent.

Amazon Web Services removed Wikileaks from their system in 2010. Cloudflare kicked off the Daily Stormer. An Italian court ordered Cloudflare to remove a copyright infringing site. Amazon suspended hosting for Parler.

What does all this mean? Infrastructure may have the means to perform “content moderation,” but it is critical to consider the effects of this trend to prevent harming the Internet’s underlying architecture. In principle, Internet service providers, registries, cloud providers and other infrastructure intermediaries should be agnostic to the content which passes over their systems.

[...] Policymakers must consider the unintended impacts of content moderation proposals on infrastructure intermediaries. Legislating without due diligence to understand the impact on the unique role of these intermediaries could be detrimental to the success of the Internet, and an increasing portion of the global economy that relies on Internet infrastructure for daily life and work.

[...] Conducting impact assessments prior to regulation is one way to mitigate the risks. The Internet Society created the Internet Impact Assessment Toolkit to help policymakers and communities assess the implications of change—whether those are policy interventions or new technologies.

Policy changes that impact the different layers of the Internet are inevitable. But we must all ensure that these policies are well crafted and properly scoped to keep the Internet working and successful for everyone.

Austin Ruckstuhl is a Project & Policy Advisor at the Internet Society where he works on Internet impact assessments, defending encryption and supporting Community Networks as access solutions.

Should online content be controlled ? If yes, Is there a better way to censor online content and who should have the authority to do so ??


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  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:03PM (33 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:03PM (#1182798)

    Same poster as

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29, @03:03PM (#1182756)

    Democrats want to completely force everyone to censor anything they don't like (just like any socialist/communist country).

    Republicans want to force everyone to allow anyone to express republican speech.

    I disagree with both positions.

    Section 230 of the CDA is good as originally written and shouldn't be modified. You make your own platform you should be able to moderate it however you like. I should be able to choose whatever platform I like or easily start my own platform without huge barriers to entry (especially artificial barriers to entry).

    However, I do think that banks (that benefit from FDIC insurance which is a government function) and payment processors should not be allowed to discriminate against where my money goes. If someone starts their own conservative platform that has speech that democrats politically disagree with no left wing bank or payment processing service should lawfully be allowed to prevent me from sending MY money to them.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:14PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:14PM (#1182800)

    Cable (and broadcast T.V.) is a perfect example of exactly what we don't want. There are way too many artificial barriers to start a cable T.V. station and cable companies simply won't allow conservative viewpoints over their cable networks (other than fox news, an over the air station they would drop if it wouldn't lose them a huge chunk of their remaining subscribers).

  • (Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:21PM (30 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:21PM (#1182803) Journal

    Democrats are fine with Parler doing Parler.

    We just find it hilarious that they go on about how they're a super FREE SPEECH platform then immediately ban all the liberals.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:54PM (28 children)

      by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @04:54PM (#1182814) Journal

      Democrats are fine with Parler doing Parler.

      Are they? My recollection is it wasn't my republican friends that called on Amazon and Cloudflare to block Parler and Gab.

      It also wasn't my republican friends that banned any mention of the "misinformation" bombshell news story of our President's son selling access and influence to his then-VP father. "Misinformation" is in air quotes here because the allegation has recently been independently confirmed by a separate source.

      For decades people warned about the dangers of media consolidation in print and broadcast allowing censorship. We were blind to the risk of that when we built the internet, and it is well on its way to fulfilling the dangers whose warnings we so long dismissed. Oops.

      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday September 29 2021, @05:01PM (13 children)

        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @05:01PM (#1182818)

        For decades people warned about the dangers of media consolidation in print and broadcast allowing censorship. We were blind to the risk of that when we built the internet....

        ... 'blind' to it up until it started looking obvious which way the election was going.

        --
        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
        • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:03PM (12 children)

          by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:03PM (#1182850) Journal

          I think you're looking at a different time period than the GP. Over the longer time period, he is definitely correct...and no election had anything to do with it. I'd pin the time when we (in general) started noticing it as about the time Microsoft escaped being broken up by the DoJ. And stated doing LOTS of campaign donations. There clearly wasn't a simultaneous awakening at that point, but large numbers of tech folk started noticing the impact of politics, and the mechanisms. (Not that we are really good at doing anything about it.)

          --
          Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
          • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:09PM (11 children)

            by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:09PM (#1182855)
            Then why are we debating this in the context of deadly pandemic misinformation or an attempted insurrection at the Capitol, the two WORST cases to make the point?
            --
            🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:05PM (8 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:05PM (#1182876)

              You're the one that mentioned that context. We're not debating it within that context, you are the one arbitrarily mentioning the context and bringing it up.

              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Tork on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:07PM (7 children)

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:07PM (#1182878)

                We're not debating it within that context...

                Bullshit.

                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @10:37PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @10:37PM (#1182957)

                  Why even argue with these deplorable idiots? They still support trump! How thick and or evil can someone be??

                  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday September 29 2021, @11:14PM (1 child)

                    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @11:14PM (#1182970)
                    I think what frustrates me the most is there are parts of this I can get behind.... IF we figure this out separate from the extreme behaviours that brought us here. Wanna tighten up who gets common carrier status? Let's talk! Wanna force companies to host customers that make other customers leave because they're using the service to commit violence? Why the ruddy fuck are we even talking about the control of the 'internet plumbers' in that case?
                    --
                    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:48AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:48AM (#1183066)

                      I would be very happy if they would discuss problems, but as we've seen discussions have two rules. Only maintaining the status quo is allowed, and partisan topics are not subject to facts and reason.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:08AM (3 children)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:08AM (#1183029) Journal

                  Not bullshit at all. People have been bitching about the liberal leanings of the media, and of Big Tech for 20 years, and more. "People" isn't restricted to either conservatives, or to liberals. These people are just those who have enough imagination to extrapolate current events into the future. The liberal leanings have taken on a definite list to port in more recent years, and if it continues, the whole thing could capsize.

                  But, left-leaning people seem to think this is a "good thing".

                  It doesn't much matter what "context" you choose to frame the discussion in. Censorship is almost always a bad thing. I would be saying the same if Big Tech were conservative, thanks for asking.

                  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday September 30 2021, @06:34AM

                    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @06:34AM (#1183051)

                    Not bullshit at all. People have been bitching about the liberal leanings of the media, and of Big Tech for 20 years, and more.

                    Okay, so if that's so plentiful and obvious then there really isn't a need then to whine about how a political party is being silenced when really the issue was that a small subset of that group had acted very badly. It's like a liberal bringing up drone strikes in an Obama vs. Trump debate. Pointlessly risky.

                    It doesn't much matter what "context" you choose to frame the discussion in.

                    Bullshit. There's a massive flipping of values coming from the conservatives, here. It's not nuance either, the right is still struggling to find the solution they actually want implemented, currently it's mainly just "poor us victims". "BuT NoBuDdiEs CaN BuiLd WeBSerVers!"

                    I would be saying the same if Big Tech were conservative, thanks for asking.

                    I've yet to hear you admonish Parler for punting 'libruls'. Funny thing about that, the likely reason they were doing it was that those 'libruls' were trolls intent on ruining the fun for everybody there. Heck maybe you have criticized Parler for that reason before and we actually agree on something, but if it only comes out when we're talking about consequences from conservative untowards behaviour...

                    --
                    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
                  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Mockingbird on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:13AM (1 child)

                    by Mockingbird (15239) on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:13AM (#1183064) Journal

                    Not bullshit at all. People have been bitching about the liberal leanings of the media, and of Big Tech for 20 years, and more.

                    Well, you know, that is because those people are stupid. Really fucking stupid. In fact, Runaway levels of stupid. So are you saying we should give them what they want, more stupid, like Fox News? Would that not be cruel and unusual punishment, as prohibited by the US Constitution? But, oh, I forgot the Conservatives do not follow the US Constitution any longer, since they are morons and traitors! Death to traitors, Runaway! And if you are one of them, who has renounced the oath your took when you enlisted in the United States Navy, . . . We will be coming for you, traitor.

                    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday September 30 2021, @04:11PM

                      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @04:11PM (#1183118)
                      Um, no, we can do completely without the 'death to traitors' nonsense. Not cool.
                      --
                      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 2) by JustNiz on Friday October 01 2021, @12:33AM (1 child)

              by JustNiz (1573) on Friday October 01 2021, @12:33AM (#1183244)

              Your "attempted insurrection" is their "fight for freedom, truth and justice". It's all just semantics.

              ... and don't forget how the US even got started. It would be hypocritical to label insurrection as an inherently bad thing.

              • (Score: 2) by Tork on Friday October 01 2021, @02:47AM

                by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Friday October 01 2021, @02:47AM (#1183261)

                It would be hypocritical to label insurrection as an inherently bad thing.

                That's academic cos this one was a "bad thing". ;)

                --
                🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:04PM (13 children)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday September 29 2021, @06:04PM (#1182851) Journal

        It's not my fault they're too dumb to run their own servers.

        If you want to use somebody else's servers then you need to follow somebody else's rules.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:31PM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:31PM (#1182891)

          Riddle me this?

          How many startups run their own infrastructure down to the fibers?

          You are making an impossible demand.

          To date only ONE of the dissident entities has managed to achieve full independence, Gab.com. They now have their own ASN, own physical hardware and Internet infrastructure. But they will still eventually be attacked again by the forces of tolerance and inclusion.

          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:33PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:33PM (#1182908) Journal

            I thought Epik hosting was the GOTO place for sites wanting to host misinformation and lies.

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday September 30 2021, @03:06AM (5 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Thursday September 30 2021, @03:06AM (#1183015)

            How many startups run their own infrastructure down to the fibers?

            Several organizations I've worked for have run their own infrastructure from the monopolistic ISP connection on back to the servers and racks and wiring. And the ISP is under common carrier-like regulations, so they shouldn't be able to legally stop you based solely on the content you're putting out there (and based on some of the stuff these companies were hosting, I can assure you they really don't care unless they have a very very good reason). If you have a good locally-located data center who is willing to work with you, or enough capital to build a data center of your own, that certainly helps, but for small-scale startups you can not-totally-infrequently find what amount to glorified closets somewhere in their office space with a rack of servers and a front-facing router / firewall that also handles the usual office traffic.

            Is it harder? Yes - you'll need a bit more in-house admin skill to run it since your admins will have to handle physical layouts and network topography in a way they didn't really have to when the cloud provider was doing that for them. Is it more expensive? Probably yes, at least up-front, but that may be offset by lower ongoing costs since you're getting fewer services from an outsourced provider, and it's definitely not so much of a cost that you can't do it for something like $25K to get started.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:11AM (2 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:11AM (#1183030) Journal

              but for small-scale startups

              Thanks for the encouragement. But, what we need is not a set of tin cans with strings, we need a monster public address system that can broadcast as loudly as the progressives.

              • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:51PM (1 child)

                by Thexalon (636) on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:51PM (#1183099)

                So what you're saying is: "I don't want to do the work to build my own monster public address system, so instead I want to force other people to let me use theirs." Got it. Never mind that conservative viewpoints also already have a bunch of public address systems already, from Fox to OAN to Sinclair Broadcast Group to many other outlets.

                --
                The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:07PM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @08:07PM (#1183177) Journal

                  I said no such thing. I've pointed out that the bar for entry is high. I might even say that it is astronomically high. Maybe I should ask over on Gab how many dollars has changed hands to get where they are now. A billionaire might not miss that money, but regular people won't accumulate that kind of money in 10 lifetimes.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:13AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:13AM (#1183032)

              So, more than 25k is the price of free speech in a modern context?

              Just step back and think about this. Really hard. Think really, really hard.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @07:37AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @07:37AM (#1183853)

                You'll be shocked to know how expensive a printing press was in 1776.

        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:04PM (2 children)

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:04PM (#1182903) Journal

          Even with your own server, you still need a contract to connect. That company will decide what you can and can't put online. The service provider is the real ball and chain. From them we should be demanding a simple dumb pipe. Content must remain off limits to any regulation. You do all the filtering at your end.

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:13AM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:13AM (#1183031) Journal

            That company will decide what you can and can't put online.

            Whatever happend to dumb pipes? And internet neutrality? No, my ISP shouldn't decide what I can put online.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:18AM

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday September 30 2021, @05:18AM (#1183034) Journal

              Whatever happend to dumb pipes?

              Same as always, insufficient demand from the market collective

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:30PM (1 child)

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:30PM (#1182906) Journal

          I am smart enough to run my own servers. You can reach it by driving to 35.702846, -86.299802 (Yes, the rock quarry), pull over on the side of the road, connect to the wifi network named FREESPEECH, and open https://freespeech, [freespeech,] and verify the SSL certificate thumbprint is f6f5da963bad37651c8e5e7488871d38266f0c1b.

          What, that's not scalable? You want some kind of network you can connect to that from anywhere in the world? Lacking Elon Musk's money/ability/infrastructure to build your own globe spanning network you'll have to buy that from someone, and you should be able to do that. Core services like IP transport, DNS registration/resolution, and arguably DOS prevention services should not be denied on a whim. You have a serious issue when providers are empowered to silence you because they disagree with your politics (Gab), religion (church of Satan), disregard for intellectual property (piratebay), or anything else.

          You might make a compelling argument against e.g. Child Pornography but that's a long way from shutting down a social media site because of pictures of Sad Pepe frog saying "Left can't Meme".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:37PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @08:37PM (#1182909)

            Themightybuzzard was one of the early founders/admins of Soylentnews and he was relatively conservative also. The claim that Republicans won't start their own servers because they don't have the skills or expertise is a nonsensical red herring.

    • (Score: 2) by JustNiz on Friday October 01 2021, @12:36AM

      by JustNiz (1573) on Friday October 01 2021, @12:36AM (#1183246)

      ahh you mean exactly like how facebook et al automatically ban anyone that dares to not march lock-step with the left wing propaganda?

  • (Score: 2) by slinches on Wednesday September 29 2021, @09:30PM

    by slinches (5049) on Wednesday September 29 2021, @09:30PM (#1182929)

    You make your own platform you should be able to moderate it however you like. I should be able to choose whatever platform I like or easily start my own platform without huge barriers to entry (especially artificial barriers to entry).

    I agree that you should be able to moderate your site as you see fit. However, you should be liable for any content that is published there unless you adhere to common carrier standards (i.e. content agnostic except to comply with takedowns of illegal content). If you want to control the messages on your site, then own the liability for that. If you want to provide a space for open discussion that isn't controlled by the site, then you should be protected from liability for the messages of others who happen to use the site.