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posted by janrinok on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:08AM   Printer-friendly
from the CoCs dept.

https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/671

The entire moderation team resigns, effective immediately. This resignation is done in protest of the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves.

As a result of such structural unaccountability, we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to. To leave under these circumstances deeply pains us, and we apologize to all of those that we have let down. In recognition that we are out of options from the perspective of Rust Governance, we feel as though we have no course remaining to us but to step down and make this statement.

In so doing, we would offer a few suggestions to the community writ large:

  • We suggest that Rust Team Members come to a consensus on a process for oversight over the Core Team. Currently, they are answerable only to themselves, which is a property unique to them in contrast to all other Rust teams.

  • In the interest of not perpetuating unaccountability, we recommend that the replacement for the Mod Team be made by Rust Team Members not on the Core Team.
  • We suggest that the future Mod Team, with advice from Rust Team Members, proactively decide how best to handle and discover unhealthy conflict among Rust Team Members. We suggest that the Mod Team work with the Foundation in obtaining resources for professional mediation.

Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Subsentient on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:43AM (60 children)

    by Subsentient (1111) on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:43AM (#1199471) Homepage Journal

    Once you see the context, you're going to regret this comment.

    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=2, Informative=1, Disagree=2, Total=5
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:03AM (39 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:03AM (#1199479) Journal

    I clicked the link to context posted earlier. Most of the links on that page are deadends. The little I gathered is, Azuma Hazuki's sister is on the core team. Lil Sis makes a lot of mysandrist comments. So what? Is she contributing? Fine, let her contribute, and ignore her comments the way most of us ignore 'Zumi's hatred of men. If there's more and better context, I might want to look at it. Or not. I am adamantly opposed to CoCsuckers pretending they have some right, or some authority, to make people "accountable". That's what the law is for, and CoCsuckers are not cops, not lawyers, not anything. Aren't most of them named Karen?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:01AM (24 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:01AM (#1199497) Journal

      And what is your justification for dragging AzumaHazuki into this discussion?

      Leave YOUR politics off this site please or, if you must, put them in your journal. Naming specific members of our community is certainly off-topic for this discussion.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:35AM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:35AM (#1199500)

        Whatever motivated you to accept this fluff as a story?

        Both the pull request and the reddit discussion are completely devoid of context other than hearsay claims of 'misandry'.

        Was your motivation to poke fun at the 'woke' community or the Rust community - we already had one daft submission about how real men program in C this week.

        either way, our resident unreformed boomer couldn't resist.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:22PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:22PM (#1199513)

          We've discussed the CoC situation and toxicity of SJW's extensively on this site. Beyond ignoring them, a correct and appropriate response to this Ashley Williams person would simply be to mock them but that would in itself be a CoC violation. As one user on the reddit thread linked by Subsentient explained:

          Nothing is going to happen to Ashley. That's not the point. The point is this exposes CoCs for what they really are: a weapon for certain people to use against their enemies. It assists in ideological purges of undesirables but doesn't apply to those with the appropriate ideology. CoCs are a fraud, in other words.

          Pathetic as they are, I don't have a problem with any of the supposedly offensive tweets, occurring as they did on a personal account. My position has always been that people are entitled to their personal views and gender, sexuality and race are irrelevant to technical collaboration. I also, however, fully reserve the right to call people on their bullshit as any self-respecting adult should. That is, no self-respecting adult would ever submit to rules privileging the childish and mentally ill over themselves.

          If you don't see the relevance pertaining to a project like Rust, you don't know why myself (and others) avoid that language and it's community like the plague. But don't let that stop you invoking "boomer" slurs as ageist discrimination and further, flagrant demonstration of woke ("Rules for thee but not for me") hypocrisy!

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:11PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:11PM (#1199551)

            > That is, no self-respecting adult would ever submit to rules privileging the childish and mentally ill over themselves.

            BZZZZT oh so close, only 100% wrong. Brah.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:38PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:38PM (#1199560)

              BZZZZT oh so close, only 100% wrong. Brah.

              The world is not your safe space and I am not a child. Once you realize narcissism is an infantilizing personality disorder... [psychologytoday.com]

              Being treated as a child doesn’t mean you have to be one forever once you recognize your own potential to be a grown-up.

              To clarify, if you don't want to be treated like a child you also have to stop acting like one and take responsibility for yourself. You can be getting on with that, right after you clean your room bucko!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:42PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:42PM (#1199642)

                Ah yes, the irony of republicunts whining about safe spaces. Happy Holidays you whiny bitch ;^)

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:00PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:00PM (#1199649)

                  Damn libs shrunk the turkeys and made them more expensive. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I don't like them.

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by janrinok on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:35PM (2 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:35PM (#1199515) Journal

          1. It was submitted by a member of our community, and it accurately portrays the state of affairs regarding CoC and their (ab)use. It is worthy of discussion, but I cannot be held responsible for every comment made any more that you can held responsible for the comments made in response to your contributions.

          2. I haven't poked fun at anybody. My only comment was directed at someone who wished to introduce their own political views against another member of our community. That was both unnessary and off topic.

          3. I can do nothing to change when I was born and I don't recall being consulted about it, but I haven't found a reason for me to 'reform' who I am. Perhaps I am contravening your own personal CoC? Tough!

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:51PM

            by PiMuNu (3823) on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:51PM (#1199530)

            I for one appreciate the submission. Always interesting to see what is going on in the coding bollitics.

            Having said that, I think comments on the (in)appropriate uses of spoons are probably the most appropriate response to half the threads.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @03:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @03:51PM (#1199779)

            I appreciate this submission.It is nice to read about crap like this before experiencing it.

            On another news site a story was linked about how a company was torn apart by SJW. It is things lime this and the insights learned by others that can be so valuable to know when it happens to you.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2021, @01:01AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2021, @01:01AM (#1199861)

          we already had one daft submission about how real men program in C this week.

          Huh? Do you mean C is the Greenest Programming Language [soylentnews.org] (links to Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages [uminho.pt])?

      • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:41PM (#1199517)

        I had a dream that SN is the core team and Janrinok left in a huff. You would not be missed.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:48PM (#1199528)
        CoC-sucker detected. Seriously, this is the problem with a Coc - it leads to policing via violations of the CoC instead of addressing behaviour that is ass-hat because it's ass-hat.

        Naming specific people on this site, ON THIS SITE, is on topic. It's not like he's naming them elsewhere (which is part of why the rust moderation team has their panties in a twist - who goves a shit about posts on twitter Upset about it - fight on twitter, where it's in context. Or put on your big boy pants and ignore it instead of dragging drama into development processes). Time for CoC to die. Again, when someone does stupid shit address it directly, not through CoC-language-policing.

        Back in the real world (you know, work) we don't have a written code of conduct except for how we expect our customers to behave (because some of them are assholes). It's understood we will treat them properly because we're adults, whether they act like it or not. Same as we don't have a code of conduct for how we treat each other. Because we're adults. And we have each other's backs.

        If you need a CoC to regulate conduct on a team, you don't have a team. And a CoC cannot fix that. And the CoC police will always be held in contempt by the people doing the real work, same as HR is a tool of management to control workers.

        There's nothing wrong with being an SJW or woke - but address problems by naming them, without invoking the legalistic bullshit of a CoC.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:34PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:34PM (#1199558) Journal

        And what is your justification for dragging AzumaHazuki into this discussion?

        The manhater part, of course. I made that obvious in my post. Have I violated a CoC that we didn't know about?

        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:43PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:43PM (#1199666)

          Uh, how do you figure that user is a man hater?

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by acid andy on Friday November 26 2021, @01:54AM

            by acid andy (1683) on Friday November 26 2021, @01:54AM (#1199691) Homepage Journal

            She calls out toxic males. Runaway seems to think all males are meant to be toxic. Go figure.

            --
            If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:39PM (8 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:39PM (#1199562) Journal

        Also, the article and everything surrounding it is inherently political. Put up a political story, expect political comments, right?

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by janrinok on Thursday November 25 2021, @06:30PM (7 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @06:30PM (#1199600) Journal

          "It is inherently political"? - which party introduced it? Who supported it? Who passed it into law? Oh', that's right - neither side has. It isn't, in my view, the least bit political - unless you want to try blaming the 'other side' for it being a story at all. This has nothing to do with your government, your representatives or how you voted. So please leave your politics out of this.

          It is a story about software production - and in particular one specific language. It is related to CoCs and SJWs, but there is nothing there that means that you have to introduce national politics at all. SJWs don't belong to any particular party. Perhaps you understand now why the rest of the world is standing back and watching with a mixture of shock and amusement at the bizarre polarisation that we are witnessing in the US that is affecting everything you do.

          Put up a political story, expect political comments, right?

          If it falls within the political nexus then it is fair game - otherwise please discuss the topic itself.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:09PM (4 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:09PM (#1199610) Journal

            The concept of CoC is political. It is advanced by SJWs of various sorts, and approved of by activist groups that are affiliated with the cultural revolution. CoC is a perfect tool of lib/dem/progressive activists. You can't discuss CoC without introducing identity politics. I think you are terribly mistaken if you believe otherwise.

            If you're trying to say that it's not just American politics, well, of course you are right. It isn't specific to any nation, any party, any ethnicity, or whatever else we might imagine. It probably can't be seen as 'global' yet, but it pervades the western world.

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:40PM (3 children)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:40PM (#1199618) Journal

              It isn't any specific group of people as you are suggesting. Revolution is only another word for change. A revolution in transport or medical care or scientific endeavour is not something to be held back out of fear. Those who fought for emancipation were ridiculed and punished before they were finally successful. Now you would call them SJW. It's funny how 'enlightened' we think we are today. Women do have a hard time entering professions that are predominantly male dominated. It isn't just a matter of skills or ability. But look at some of those that have been successful Grace Hopper, Katherine Johnson, Margaret Hamilton, Marie Curie. Women were not allowed to be doctors until long after men. Where there is sexual discrimination, or any kind of discrimination, there is a waste of human potential.

              On the other hand, those who do their cause no good whatsoever, by abusing a CoC to get an unfair advantage or to unfairly victimise somebody should be called out for their acts.

              I am not suggesting how you should decide who is right or wrong in the topic under discussion but one thing I am certain about - it is not politics unless you are trying to push your own political viewpoint. "You can't discuss CoC without introducing identity politics" and "CoC is a perfect tool of lib/dem/progressive activists" are, in my opinion, just how you want to view it and they are based on your own political views.

              Our judgement should be based on merit and merit alone. As others have said here in this discussion, leave your politics outside of the workplace and, for that matter, out of discussions that do not warrant them.

              • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:09PM (2 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:09PM (#1199629) Journal

                Sorry, but you're wrong. There has never been a CoC written that wasn't politically motivated. Identity politics is the underlying reason for everything related to a CoC.

                • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:44PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:44PM (#1199643)

                  Hey runaway, still a whingey boomer? Cool stuff, go donate to some scammers or something.

                • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:08PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:08PM (#1199652)

                  Sorry bud - would reply but I gotta get started on the War against Christmas and pushing mind control vaccines. Us Dems are real crafty at hiding our political agenda.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:20AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:20AM (#1199679)

            "It is inherently political"? - which party introduced it?

            You have a very myopic view of politics if you think that it must always involve either a "party" or a "law".

            that's right - neither side has [..] blaming the 'other side'

            ...and you are beyond redemption as long as you keep believing there's ever only two sides to a political issue.

            there is nothing there that means that you have to introduce national politics at all

            They didn't. You did, by insisting that politics is always inflicted by a (political) party.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @07:08AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @07:08AM (#1199733)

            This has nothing to do with your government, your representatives or how you voted

            FWIW back when NASA and its predecessors were accomplishing new stuff[1] the US Gov was fine with having literal Nazis working for them (SJW stuff be damned): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip [wikipedia.org]

            See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Nazi_Party_membership [wikipedia.org]

            [1] Rather than doing "re-runs" with newer tech and better graphics.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday November 25 2021, @04:45PM (12 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday November 25 2021, @04:45PM (#1199573) Journal

      Why do you think "Hazuki gives me a hard time" equates to "Hazuki hates all men?" What a whiny little brat! I don't hate men in general, and I don't even hate you. I do pity you though :)

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:10PM (11 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:10PM (#1199612) Journal

        I don't hate men in general, and I don't even hate you.

        ROFL

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26 2021, @12:02AM (10 children)

          by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26 2021, @12:02AM (#1199674)

          The Runaway is a prime example of the inferiority of men and the dangers of testosterone poisoning. The truth is that men must be trained like dogs. Men are rapists from cradle to grave. They are incapable of reproduction without women, and so they covet women and seek to own us mind, body, and soul. Abortion would be a sacrament if men got pregnant!

          1 out of 4 women are victims of male sexual predators. Men stalk women like slabs of meat. Men are responsible for creating rape culture and normalizing sexual violence against women. We just have to look at the violence in the world, much of which is man on man violence, to see how vile the rule of men is.

          Men squander the wealth of society on war and the industrial manufacture of death. The world would be peaceful and prosperous without men.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 26 2021, @12:18AM (6 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26 2021, @12:18AM (#1199678) Journal

            The world would be peaceful and prosperous without men.

            Well, of course. Without men, there would be no more sharp tongued women disturbing the peace.

            • (Score: 1) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26 2021, @03:06AM (5 children)

              by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26 2021, @03:06AM (#1199699)

              It's a simple biological fact. Women are able to perform all aspects of capitalist and human reproduction without requiring a single man. Testosterone should be banned.

              The male gender is completely deprecated by technology. Need to do some heavy lifting? You're better off with a lever than a man!

              There are even Messrs. Smith & Wesson. It used to be that it was advantageous to own a man, so that he could club any other man that would threaten oneself. Why do you need a man, when a firearm is more reliable protection from men? A fundamentally flawed gender, men provide for their own downfall.

              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 26 2021, @04:00AM (4 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26 2021, @04:00AM (#1199711) Journal

                Uh-huh, right. Women don't' need men, until their technology breaks down. Since you're so smart, why didn't women start drowning their male children 1000 years ago?

                • (Score: 1) by akai.tsubasa on Friday November 26 2021, @04:21AM (2 children)

                  by akai.tsubasa (13577) on Friday November 26 2021, @04:21AM (#1199714)

                  That's a good question. They should have. The shieldmaidens should have seized political power from men. Boudica or Lagertha could have created a new dawn for womankind. Perhaps women have been deceived by heterosexuality.

                  It is time to stop making excuses for the brutal gender. With men such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Trump, enough is enough!

                  • (Score: 3, Informative) by looorg on Friday November 26 2021, @04:41AM (1 child)

                    by looorg (578) on Friday November 26 2021, @04:41AM (#1199717)

                    Bring on the glorious matriarchy where it will be all peace and unicorns for everyone. In reality nothing would change as females can be just as shit and brutal as males.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:19AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:19AM (#1200135)
                      A few points:

                      Your stat is underestimating sexual assaults by men. It's more like 50% of women are victims at some point in their lives, possibly more. And 10% of men.

                      Same as most men, and most women, are killed by men.

                      This doesn't mean 50% of men are shit. It could be more, it could be less, Stats on this are all over the place. A lot of it is dependent on society - a society that is patriarchal is by definition misogynistic, and the masculinity is toxic. Given that obly 1/3 of societies on the planet are democrcies, there's going be a lot of toxic masculinity floating around.

                      Read HOUSTON, HOUSTON, DO YOU READ … by Alice Sheldon to see a possible future.

                • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Sunday November 28 2021, @03:50PM

                  by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 28 2021, @03:50PM (#1200236) Homepage Journal

                  why didn't women start drowning their male children 1000 years ago?

                  Maybe some group did that, and left no descendants.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:24AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:24AM (#1199681)

            You are a sad excuse for a human being. I hope you live long and bitter.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by nostyle on Friday November 26 2021, @06:57AM (1 child)

              by nostyle (11497) on Friday November 26 2021, @06:57AM (#1199728) Journal

              You are a sad excuse for a human being. I hope you live long and bitter.

              Clearly you failed to fathom the subject line. GP post was warning in the subject line that the associated post would demonstrate misandry.

              The poster has revealed nothing about his or her humanity nor displayed evidence of bitterness - rather only a clear understanding of what misandry looks like. In some sense it might be considered a well crafted troll, except that the facetiousness of it was clearly broadcast in the subject line.

              GP poster may have failed to consider how many male snowflakes with reading comprehension issues would get triggered by the demonstration.

              ...or maybe that was the fun part.

              Either way, kudos to the GP poster on the demonstration of misandry. Nailed it.

              • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @05:26PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @05:26PM (#1199798)

                Thanks!

                I've been on the receiving end of plenty of sexual harassment from other women, and what I posted is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

                Some men, like the Runaway, believe that any opposition to patriarchy is somehow misandry. That needs to be corrected for real misandry to be exposed.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:42AM (#1199685)

      Is she contributing?

      Not really.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:12AM (17 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:12AM (#1199494)

    Frankly this is WHY we don't drag personal lives into engineering.

    I say let her stay. I think CoC in projects that are run by a special moderation team that doesn't contribute gives them an incentive to drag everyone through the mud
    Yes, she is an asshat. Do I care? Not really unless shes putting this in code or project stuff, but this is apparently things she said on her personal twitter about some other project (node.js), and the rust team wants to drag her into RustyCoC Court for that.

    If anything it's a node js issue..

    Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech, and we should take that as a guideline for our lives elsewhere. Namely that.. no matter how much I'm convinced im right, id be wrong to play judge, jury, and executioner on someone else's offensive opinions.

    I say all of this as the type of person she's apparently railing against, but unlike people who live to censor others, I can use my brain and know that she has opinions, we don't agree, and that's fine.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:45AM (4 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:45AM (#1199502) Journal

      If anything it's a node js issue..

      Unless she's saying the same things on rust forums as well. It is common for people who are problems in one area or organization to be the same sort of problem elsewhere. I suppose if that really is going on, then we'll see some evidence for it.

      I say all of this as the type of person she's apparently railing against, but unlike people who live to censor others, I can use my brain and know that she has opinions, we don't agree, and that's fine.

      Sounds like the problem might be someone is making rules that they don't follow and don't have to follow.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:03PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:03PM (#1199504)
        Sounds like a lot of (incorrect) hypotheticals, when there's actual, quoted, linked citations of what she said and where. Try reading that first, then rejoin us.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:56PM (#1199531)
          It is spillover from node.js. EVERYTHING is a problem with node.js. It's too much to hope this kills it, but we can dream. If it takes rust down with it, that's acceptable collateral damage. Come on Santa, just one month to xmas!
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 25 2021, @02:45PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 25 2021, @02:45PM (#1199539) Journal

          when there's actual, quoted, linked citations of what she said and where.

          For the node.js project as far as I can tell. Thus, it's always possible that she behaves properly for rust-related activities, say because someone there enforces the CoC or whatnot - one mask for Rust, a different one for node.js. When I looked at the Rust CoC [rust-lang.org], I didn't see anything about public statements made elsewhere. But then I didn't see anything about an exception for Rust Core developers either.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:27PM (#1200216)

          Khallow is a conservative, therefore "rules for thee not for me" applies to everything he says. Censorship of conservatives? BAD! Censorship of people he doesn't like? GOOD! I wish he was more complex.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @05:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @05:51PM (#1199590)

      "Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech"

      but the subversive Jews have made thinking wrong think while committing a crime an additional federal crime. Don't kid yourself that there is any protection. They will fill the supreme court with Shabbos Goy and Jews and they will gut free speech. unless we wake up and purge the parasite from what's left of our lands.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:16AM (4 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday November 26 2021, @07:16AM (#1199735) Homepage
      How does "Kill all men" not apply to the men who work on Rust?
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @09:38AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @09:38AM (#1199750)

        Would a judge consider that a credible threat of imminent violence?

        Then go arrest her. Otherwise, ignore her.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @04:45PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @04:45PM (#1199790)

          It is as bigoted a comment as "kill all women" or "kill all blacks", either of which would get you CoC'ed off the project. Why doesn't it get the same outraged response?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:36AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:36AM (#1200137)
            You should not need a CoC to kick someone off for such shit. And that in a nutshell is the problem with a CoC - it's ineffective.

            Seriously, if you have that many issues, just fork off. Why fight? Unless of course you enjoy the drama, in which case don't be surprised if your coworkers soon become your ex-coworkers as they fork off. Either way, problem solved. Nobody HAS to work with people they don't like.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @05:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @05:28PM (#1199800)

          It's sexual harassment, dipshit.

    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by ilsa on Friday November 26 2021, @11:21PM (5 children)

      by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 26 2021, @11:21PM (#1199849)

      >Supreme Court repeatedly reminded us that hate speech is PROTECTED speech, and we should take that as a guideline for our lives elsewhere. Namely that.. no matter how much I'm convinced im right, id be wrong to play judge, jury, and executioner on someone else's offensive opinions.

      I just want to point out that's only in America. All other countries (that I am aware of) do not protect hate speech. Personally, I think the US made a mistake on that one, as it's directly contributing to the significant racial issues affecting it to this day.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 27 2021, @12:45AM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 27 2021, @12:45AM (#1199860) Journal

        I just want to point out that's only in America. All other countries (that I am aware of) do not protect hate speech. Personally, I think the US made a mistake on that one, as it's directly contributing to the significant racial issues affecting it to this day.

        I think there's two observations to make here. First, racial issues have gotten a lot better in the US despite that relative absence of hate speech law. Second, there's no linkage between the presence of hate speech law and improvement in those significant racial issues.

        So what is the benefit of hate speech law? My take is suppression of speech that those in power don't like.

        • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Sunday November 28 2021, @06:32PM (3 children)

          by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 28 2021, @06:32PM (#1200278)

          I think the burden of proof is on you for that statement "Second, there's no linkage between the presence of hate speech law and improvement in those significant racial issues."

          * The US has a prison population larger than all other western nations combined, and compared to population, is very disproportionally represented by non-white people
          * To this day, blacks are being randomly attacked, and/or murdered on a regular basis. The Rittenhouse case is just the most recent example. It's also a great example of how systemic racism is overwhelmingly prevalent.

          It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes. But in the US, racism is still very much openly encouraged, sometimes even _celebrated_, in many parts of the country. The situation is not even close to as bad anywhere else.

          The acceptance of hate speech emboldens racists. Trump's presidency has made that irrefutable.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 29 2021, @04:20AM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29 2021, @04:20AM (#1200413) Journal

            The US has a prison population larger than all other western nations combined, and compared to population, is very disproportionally represented by non-white people

            So something with no conceivable connection to hate speech.

            To this day, blacks are being randomly attacked, and/or murdered on a regular basis. The Rittenhouse case is just the most recent example. It's also a great example of how systemic racism is overwhelmingly prevalent.

            We call that "gang-related violence". Again, attacked and murdered is not a hate speech thing. It's an assault and murder thing that's a crime already.

            It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes.

            In other words, a compelling argument not to make mere hate speech illegal. It's just a legal pretext to punish out-groups.

            • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Monday November 29 2021, @02:35PM (1 child)

              by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29 2021, @02:35PM (#1200523)

              ....seriously?

              I keep forgetting that you're as bad as Runaway. You've intentionally misconstrued what I said, and your prison demographic facts are flat out wrong. I bet you think the US healthcare system is all fine and dandy too.

              Sorry, I'm not playing Brandolini's law with you.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 29 2021, @03:11PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 29 2021, @03:11PM (#1200532) Journal

                You've intentionally misconstrued what I said

                How? I don't see that myself. Let's review once again. First, you talked about the prison population. As I noted, that's irrelevant to hate speech. I might add here, that hate speech law would actually make the problem worse by adding people to those jails. There is no misconstrual there. Then you talked about blacks being "randomly attacked and/or murdered". I merely noted that most of those attacks are gang-related, often by blacks. Further, there is no acknowledgement of degree or that assault and murder is not speech.

                I suppose I can look up number of hate-related assaults and murders (though not the "randomness" of the crime) - keeping in mind that nobody was counting those decades ago. But what would be the point when you haven't specified any numbers in your post? I acknowledge there are attacks and murders based on ethnicity. Likely some of those are genuinely random too. But mere existence of such crimes is not a measure of whether things are better or not. Finally, you wrote:

                It's not possible to eliminate racism cause people will always be assholes.

                When some negative thing is not possible to eliminate, then by necessity, one has to decide how much of it to tolerate. My take is that the only reasonable place to draw the line legally is the doing of harm. Hate speech just doesn't do harm (no, I don't buy the arguments of ethnic slander and such) and hence, should be legal.

                Further, I don't think you get how easy it is to abuse hate speech law. There's where the "legal pretext to punish out-groups" comes in. For example, hate speech often resorts to euphemisms, dog whistles, and similar, relatively subtle tricks of communication to conceal itself. I've seen "New York bankers" used as code for Jewish bankers, or references to certain cities (like Detroit and Saint Louis) to stereotype cities with large black populations. Or the recent flashing of the "OK" sign which is alleged sometimes to be a hate speech thing.

                How would the law tell the difference between legal speech that just happens to mention the wrong code words and coy hate speech? Or a deliberate joke that parodies hate speech? My take is that it would depend on whether the authorities want to punish the party in question. Remember the process of the trial can be the punishment - there doesn't have to be a reasonable case.

                That brings us to my key point. There's no value to hate speech law and a lot of downside to it. We even have cases [soylentnews.org] where it made the problems it was supposed to solve worse! It should be outright eliminated everywhere.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Tokolosh on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:08PM (1 child)

    by Tokolosh (585) on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:08PM (#1199548)

    Try not to be like the people you despise.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:10PM (#1199653)

      Bb..but we gotta teach them a lesson.