SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/671
The entire moderation team resigns, effective immediately. This resignation is done in protest of the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves.
As a result of such structural unaccountability, we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to. To leave under these circumstances deeply pains us, and we apologize to all of those that we have let down. In recognition that we are out of options from the perspective of Rust Governance, we feel as though we have no course remaining to us but to step down and make this statement.
In so doing, we would offer a few suggestions to the community writ large:
We suggest that Rust Team Members come to a consensus on a process for oversight over the Core Team. Currently, they are answerable only to themselves, which is a property unique to them in contrast to all other Rust teams.
- In the interest of not perpetuating unaccountability, we recommend that the replacement for the Mod Team be made by Rust Team Members not on the Core Team.
- We suggest that the future Mod Team, with advice from Rust Team Members, proactively decide how best to handle and discover unhealthy conflict among Rust Team Members. We suggest that the Mod Team work with the Foundation in obtaining resources for professional mediation.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:48AM (2 children)
Checked the comments to see the expected deplorables shitshow, was not disappointed.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:20AM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:44PM
Who did what matters not, the morons making it political and whining that rules are some form of tyranny are the typical bag of deplorables. Humans being assholes are nothing new, as are social contracts that humans create to build societies. Strangely the deplorables are typically the ones crowing about how white people are the ones that created modern society, yet they feel the rules don't apply to them. They are special /s Being in the UK you have more hope, but I suggest you periodically attempt non-biased research of your ideologies.
(Score: 2, Funny) by shrewdsheep on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:17AM (1 child)
... good riddance ... wait, did they say: "fuck beta"?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:21AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @08:59AM (2 children)
(puts on sunglasses) rather 'corrosive' situation.
My solution: Issue sporks to all the humorless lefty moonbats and the roidraging righty winguts, lock 'em in a room and let 'em harmlessly spoon each other to death. The rest of us can then continue writing, reviewing and refining code in peace. And being socially awkward to each other.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Thursday November 25 2021, @11:04AM (1 child)
Someone told me that once you use enough force to really hurt someone, doesn't matter if you are using a spoon (spork) or a knife.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:07PM
Surprisingly little force is enough to really hurt someone when it's applied in the right place with the right tool.
Google the words "cartel" "eye" and "spoon" for instance. Or don't if you want to retain your lunch - don't say I didn't warn you.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:46PM (17 children)
This will be an unpopular opinion with many on this board, but bringing more women into computer programming resulted in personal drama being a fixture in our field whereas before it was pretty much a non-factor.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @12:59PM (5 children)
There is not, nor has there ever been a problem with competent female programmers. Bringing anyone into any organization based on criteria other than merit is a recipe for dysfunction.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @02:24PM (2 children)
Parent said:
"There is not, nor has there ever been a problem with competent female programmers."
Indeed there isn't, but the keyword in your sentence is "competent." I feel that the effort to bring so many people into the field for purely political reasons has damaged our field. When people entered it because of a strong, innate interest, rather than being championed into entering it, the quality of the programmers was better. The programmers self-selected: male and female.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @02:26PM
Just to clarify: I meant men and women were programmers then, but they self-selected for that career.
(Score: 3, Informative) by HiThere on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:00PM
Sorry, but no. At least not if you're talking about technical competence. Competence is necessary, but not sufficient. Disruptive assholes can ruin any organization, even if they're quite competent...and that's using a medium broad definition of competence to include some social skills.
Note that being egocentric is different from being disruptive. People can be quite egocentric and still benefit organizations depending on how they express it. Or they can be impossibly disruptive, even if they are skilled.
The problem with bigots of every stripe is that they insist on being disruptive. (They aren't all like that, only the ones you notice, but those are the ones you end up talking about.)
OTOH, it's probably impossible for a bigot to be fair in a management or coordination role. But they can be excellent coders or systems analysts (though in the latter case it's important to hide who wrote the code from them).
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @07:11PM (1 child)
Down with unions! Up with merit over seniority. Victory over horseshit!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:12PM
There's a good little suckup, have a cookie crumb. See losers, that's how you do it.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by choose another one on Thursday November 25 2021, @01:42PM (2 children)
Many of the early computer programmers were women actually, my mother was one way back in the 60s. Back then it was seen largely as a secretarial role, which meant women - do a google image search (1960s computer) if you don't believe me, plenty of women in there and not (just) draped over the hood to look pretty. Men did the hardware, the messy stuff with circuit boards and soldering irons, the women called the men when their computer broke down.
At some point in the 80s with the personal computer revolution kicking off, programming became far more common, more lucrative (and therefore attractive to men), and associated with social dysfunction (in the 70s the word "geek" meant a non-socially functioning carnival/circus performer). Now, you can say it's stereotyping, but if you want to put most women off doing something, making social dysfunction a pre-requisite works damn well and fast - whereas most men will happily do socially dysfunctional if it pays, and a good fraction will even if it doesn't...
The "personal drama being a fixture" is simply a sign of the times, nowt to do with sex or gender or whatever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2021, @10:52AM
And you demonstrate one of the problems. There are no differences between men and women except when there are. Men can't be better coders because men and women are the same. But men are different because they are toxic assholes. But women are the same even though they are not toxic assholes.
Anyone capable of being a competent programmer can see the illogic in that.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday November 27 2021, @08:56PM
Your history is mostly right: Computing became female-dominated in the 1940's when the men in the UK and USA were all busy in the Pacific islands, North Africa, and Europe for some reason. People like Grace Hopper and Dorothy Vaughan had wildly successful careers during the 40's, 50's, and early 60's.
However, the shift to computing being male-dominated happened well before the 1980's. Basically, the women got good at their job, demonstrated it was difficult, and by the mid-1960's started demanding the salaries to go with doing difficult demanding work. Then the guys basically responded with "But we want those salaries! Oh, and ... er ... it's far too hard for those girls to be able to get it! Yeah, that's right - girls suck at math, and people who are socially well-adjusted suck at math too, so it should only be weirdo guys with no social graces who do this kind of work, and you should pay us a great deal of money to do it."
And guys who want to be programmers have been working hard at matching that stereotype ever since, to varying degrees of professional success.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @02:14PM (1 child)
As one example, look at the comp-sci incel who killed 10 people in Toronto with a van - 8 of them women. He didn't know who they were, he just wanted to kill women.
Hopefully the stench of nepotism (hiring Ashley Williams by rust because she's someone's boyfriend) will kill rust. It was rusty anyway.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by sjames on Thursday November 25 2021, @06:08PM
And there's the issue. I interpreted "our field" to mean the field of which the AC was a member. Any programmer including a 2 headed indeterminate gender being from Alpha Centauri might refer to computer programming as "our field".
As for the rest, the field has repeatedly been damaged due to people who really don't have the mindset for it being brought in to fill chairs. Historically, those chair stuffers were men. This time around it's a broader mix.
As for those who do have the mindset for it, gender isn't a factor in their performance of desirability as a team member.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:37PM (5 children)
You are an idiot. There has never been a time when personal drama was absent in the field of computer programming. Read up on Ada Lovelace and Alan Turing sometime.
When life is more "dramatic" than you are able to handle, it may be _you_ that has a problem.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 25 2021, @03:47PM (1 child)
I'll second that. With 5 years sea duty with all male crews, I can verify that drama queens can be either gender.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @12:21AM
While we are already well familiar with your experience of being a queen, thank you for finally giving the origin story.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @05:11PM (2 children)
"Bringing women into programming leads to drama"
*cites a woman and a gay guy as counterexamples*
great examples bro
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @05:50PM
Idiot doubles down.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:30AM
The post you are responding to specifically said that the context is wider in scope than the narrow one initially mentioned.
And it supports that argument by giving examples from that wider context.
That's how you correctly make an argument. You take a point already made, update it to improve it, and support the updates with evidence.
Your post, however, is how you correctly demonstrate to the world that you have no understanding of language or argumentation.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Interesting) by anotherblackhat on Thursday November 25 2021, @04:28PM
AFAICT, they also avoided airing any specific grievances that included unaccountability.
The only thing I can find seems to have nothing to do with Rust, but without something specific that's listed as objectionable, it's hard to tell.
hmm...
Imagine there was a project where every person who wants to contribute had to;
1.) Make a public key unique to the project, and
2.) Sign all contributions (even to the forum) with that key (i.e. no other identifiers), and
3.) Agreed not to link keys to other identities (theirs or anyone else's).
Would a grievance like this even be possible?
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by crafoo on Thursday November 25 2021, @06:42PM (7 children)
Forcing others to comply with your political ideology and core values isn't "social justice". It's political persecution.
Unsurprisingly no one on the Moderation Team is worth anything as coders or as humans. Sit back and prepare for wave 2 of useless communists trying to subvert your organization.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @09:48PM (2 children)
I love the hypocrisy from you rightwingers *barf*. Freedom only for you eh?
"Why can't we be bigoted assholes? They can't fire me for saying death to black people!!!"
Get fucked you racist garbage disposal.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @04:52PM (1 child)
Dude. Way to miss the point. The CoC team resigned because the core team refused to fire her for saying "kill all Men".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @02:52PM
Dude. Way to miss the point. No defense of her was given, just criticism of rightwing hypocrisy and ignorance. I believe in freedom of association so the Rust team should give her the boot for being a supreme asshole.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 25 2021, @10:18PM
Please see Constitution - kthxbye
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:35AM (2 children)
Did you not understand the story here?
You've killed the healthcare workers rather than Typhoid Mary.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @05:57PM (1 child)
Yes. Agree.
The fact that misandry was involved makes this all the more frustrating for me.
You would think that men have been conditioned that they must accept misandry and that objecting to misandry will get them accused of misogyny. (Gee I wonder which anti-conservative, anti-socialist liberal movement turned anti-liberal might be responsible for that....)
However, without putting the misandry front and center, we're left to fill in the details like a rorschach test. As we can see all that does is bring out misogynists like Runaway and gives male misandrists a perfect excuse to pile on and posture as defenders of women, which from what it sounds like is a pretty good way to get laid, but I have to wonder whether men who are mostly interested in getting laid and proving they're not incels are really capable of advancing women's liberation.
Despite all of #metoo's misandrist hysterics and sexual harassment of men (false accusations are a form of sexual harassment), all the flailing about the menstrual programmers and further sexual harassment of men such as virgin shaming, abortion is still going away....
Perhaps misandry is incapable of accomplishing women's liberation. Perhaps hate speech that reifies gender dichotomy is incapable of dismantling gender dichotomy.
Anyway as usual I digress and rant.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2021, @11:04AM
They don't get laid unless the chick is really drunk or really ugly. The best most of them can hope for is to be friend-zoned and have her complain about the way the real man she slept with last hasn't called. (If they are not too ugly or malodorous, they *might* occasionally get a pity fuck.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @03:20AM (3 children)
It's zero-impact gossip meant to stir up people along political lines.
I cast one vote for less of this content.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 26 2021, @03:29AM (2 children)
The story could have been more interesting if there had been at least a little bit of information offered besides that aborted github discussion. Or if members of this community had inside information they could post in the comments.
What happened to our regular submissions from The Register? Anyway, here is there story on this, and perhaps their comments have more substance:
https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_quits/ [theregister.com]
(Score: 2) by looorg on Friday November 26 2021, @04:37AM
None I can see unless posted after I made this comment. Lots of insinuations something is or has happened in the "core" but nobody is mentioning what or whom. It's almost impressive, so many comments (github, reddit, register ...) and nobody spills the beans yet. Not sure what there even is to discuss - moderation team is a joke since they are non-essential to the code/product, cocs are filled with overly pretentious crap and leftwing nonsense that might as well just be distilled down to dont be an arsehole. Hard to say what the story really is.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday November 26 2021, @07:37AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 27 2021, @06:09PM (1 child)
CoC was invented by tech companies to millstone competition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28 2021, @07:54PM
And a conspiracy is born! I heard Exxon created the environmentalist movement to stifle competition, all those hippies are just corporate shills using owls to harm patriotic biz!!@!