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Judge blocks Biden vaccine rule, citing “liberty interests of the unvaccinated”
A federal judge yesterday blocked a Biden administration COVID-19 vaccine mandate for health care workers, granting a request for preliminary injunction filed by Republican attorneys general from 14 states.
US District Judge Terry Doughty ruled that the government lacks authority to implement the rule that "requires the staff of twenty-one types of Medicare and Medicaid healthcare providers to receive one vaccine by December 6, 2021, and to receive the second vaccine by January 4, 2022." Providers that don't comply face penalties, including "termination of the Medicare/Medicaid Provider Agreement."
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) mandate regulates over 10.3 million health care workers in the US, of which 2.4 million are unvaccinated. The Biden vaccine rule is being challenged by the attorneys general from Louisiana, Montana, Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Ohio. The Republican AGs' lawsuit was filed against CMS and the US Department of Health and Human Services.
The preliminary injunction they won applies nationwide except for 10 states that "are already under a preliminary injunction order dated November 29, 2021, issued by the Eastern District of Missouri," a court order said. Those states are Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, New Hampshire, Nebraska, Wyoming, North Dakota, and South Dakota.
What states did not participate in this lawsuit and were not covered by the earlier preliminary injunction — i.e. got swept into this decision?
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District Of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @03:48AM (79 children)
You can't order Americans to do shit, just cause it makes you feel good.
Of course, the obverse of that coin is, if you want to get 20 vaxxes this year, we won't stand in your way!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @03:54AM (25 children)
This is not cancer, it's not even AIDS, this is an infectious disease that spread through the breath, touch, and air.
Your clowning affects others, your neighbors, your colleagues, your friends, your family, your dogs and cats, maybe even your cockroach.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:01AM (18 children)
Yep. Infectious disease. You might expect that the populations of poor countries that can't afford the vax would all have dropped dead by now. Oddly, though, the highest casualty rates have been in wealthier countries, where good health care is available, and the vax is available.
Things that make you go "hmmmmmmm".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:08AM
Deaths are down because a handful of heros began rotating organite. In one region they messed up and put an organite pyramid on their solstice list. However, once rotation was initiated the expected benefit occurred. Rotation is the KEY!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:39AM
Because these wealthy countries at least had the capacity to monitor and report on their epidemic casualties. You think India had suffered no less? You think Africa suffered no less? Because they were not reported on CNN and FoxNews?
You claimed to be sailor. Didn't you learn anything from your overseas assignments? Or did you only get a cushy postings in the North America and the Western Europe?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Mykl on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:08AM (11 children)
i.e. those countries that are: a) better at counting things like this; and b) honest. China's numbers are down to zero, because their government has told us that is the case.
On a not-really-related note, Malaysia's Tourism Minister has very helpfully informed us that there are no gay people in his country [cnn.com].
I love how you are happy to accept Government statements when they support your preconceived notions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:30AM
If you need government statements to see your pandemic, then you have a pandemic of government statements.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @09:42AM (8 children)
African nations see almost annual outbreaks of highly transmissable diseases, with extremely high fatality rates, which they manage to control, and keep from spreading.
Yet, I hear you saying "Dem Darkies ain't smart enuf to count their dead." Where else do we hear that recurring theme? "Dem Darkies ain't smart enuf to get a voter ID card!"
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @11:16AM
Fucking rural American racist motherfucker Runaway. You are too stupid to count? Too stupid to think? Just stupid enough to vote for Trump, or Tom Cotton.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @11:53AM (6 children)
Smart has nothing to do with voter ID. Restrictive locations and hours that favor white collar workers with disposable income, personal vehicles to travel to the few open spots, and plenty of flex time or work from home are next to impossible to meet for someone working two blue collar jobs to make ends meet.
Fuck your noise. You're just spouting the propaganda to make a LITER disenfranchisement scheme sound reasonable on the face of it--to people with the privilege to be unaware of what working class life is really like.
When you're only open Monday to Friday, 10 AM to 2 PM, and closed for an hour lunch, qnd only in the wealthy white suburbs, you cannot in good conscience call that being accessible to all citizens. Take your racist trash somewhere else. Your lies are stale and tired.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @11:55AM
*LITERAL disenfranchisement scheme.
Fuck autocorrect.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:30PM (4 children)
Keep repeating the talking points. In effect, "It's racissss because we say so!" I would ask you for numbers, outlining how many black people were denied the vote because of any specific law. But, I'm sure that CNN has a list of fake numbers they've published.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:44PM (3 children)
Talking points?
How about you REPLY TO MY COMMENT instead of deflecting entirely.
I'm sure there's someone to fit your stereotype, but it's not me. I don't need someone else's talking points (and I have zero idea what CNN or any other cable network is saying). I have a brain of my own, and I've been making individually reasoned arguments of my own for decades. If you can't be bothered to engage with the comment, go to Facebook or whatever other echo chamber you frequent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:54PM (2 children)
There's nothing to reply to. All you have is a bare-ass accusation that Republicans don't want black people to vote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:57PM (1 child)
You just made up that, because not a word of what you said is in my post.
Are you feeling okay? Like, you're actually imagining things that have demonstrably not happened.
I'm worried about you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:32PM
APK, I mean runaway1956, has had mental health issues for yeaaaars.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday December 04 2021, @06:55PM
So you are saying that every single poor country is both stupid and dishonest?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Opportunist on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:08AM (3 children)
You really think that in a country where there are barely any reliable birth certificates or bureaucracy that deals with counting the living they give a fuck why people croak and become dead people?
You're living in a rather sheltered country where they actually care, and can know, what you die from. That's not necessarily the case in countries where you might have heard about but never seen a MD. People die there and get buried without ever finding out why they died.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:44AM (2 children)
Dude, people either die or not. If they do not die in any unusual number, your rant is totally meaningless. When a centenarian dies, they do not need a QR-code to be let into heaven or hell. Be it "pneumonia" written on their death certificate as in 2019, or the newfangled "COVID" as fashion demands in 2021, or no certificate at all - dead is dead, and living is living.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Opportunist on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:50AM
Are you a politician? You just spent 3 lines talking but I have no idea what you want to say. What the hell is your argument?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @03:04AM
Should I get a QR code in case I die before my 100th birthday so I'm not stuck in limbo forever?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by TheRaven on Thursday December 02 2021, @01:58PM (5 children)
sudo mod me up
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @03:59PM
Good luck proving who infected who when people are incentivized not to cooperate.
(Score: 2) by Sourcery42 on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:49PM (3 children)
I like the approach of charging the non-vaccinated extra for health insurance. I think Delta airlines did this, and maybe some other big companies by now.
That way it isn't a mandate, but still gives people some incentive to feed into their decision making process.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:49PM (2 children)
Which sounds great, until you realize that your current or prospective insurance company now needs to be able to know your vaccination status somehow. And that's hard to do in an environment where people are already creating fake vaccination cards to get into concerts and as such would probably have no issue using said fake vaccination cards to save $100 a month on health insurance. And they can't really verify from the pharmacy without running into HIPAA and ACA prohibitions against digging into preexisting conditions.
It's an old story of a relatively small minority of idiots / selfish jerks ruining things for everybody else.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @02:55AM (1 child)
You sign a release when you get your health insurance that allows them to contact your medical providers and the state to verify certain health information already and you sign releases with your providers that they can share the information with your insurance. Also they can verify prexisting conditions, they just cannot discriminate based on them, which doesn't really matter since vaccination status for any vaccine isn't a medical condition under the ACA or administrative rules.
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday December 03 2021, @05:03AM
In Russia an antivaxxer just bribes $100 to the nurse and she shots the can instead of him. About 10% of vaccinated are like this.
How do they know? Well, when an antivaxxer ends up in a hospital, the treatment for Covid is actually quite different for vaccinated and unvaccinated folks. Like live or die different. So Russians developed a test to check if a patient was actually vaccinated to make sure she is not lying.
That was all in the name of saving lives, but lately they introduced harsh punishments for such people. They do have to recover costs somehow, right?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 5, Informative) by dalek on Thursday December 02 2021, @03:57AM (27 children)
Actually, there is case law supporting vaccine mandates, namely Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905). Here's a good summary of the history behind the Jacobson case and the precedent it set: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280 [politico.com].
Considering all the precedent that is being tossed aside, this ruling looks a lot more like the type of judicial activism that conservatives complain about... apparently unless it involves overturning policy they dislike.
THIS ACCOUNT IS PERMANENTLY CLOSED
(Score: 0, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:05AM (3 children)
Judicial activism? I don't see it. What I see, are a lot of people hyped up over the Wuhan flu, demanding that everyone get vaxxed, so they can feel better.
Why are the poorest countries in Africa not all falling over dead? https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/33844/COVID-19-Mortality-in-Rich-and-Poor-Countries-A-Tale-of-Two-Pandemics.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y [worldbank.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:46AM (2 children)
That paper even explains why its own methods are dishonest: it's a data quality issue due to vastly more testing in richer countries. They explicitly decide to not use the excess deaths measure that others use to work around that, claiming that also has data quality issues but not anywhere near as bad as the numbers they are using.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:05AM (1 child)
When you need "data quality" to NOTICE your "deadly pandemic", and STILL cannot understand why people do not believe you...
In real epidemics, people SEE those excess deaths. They do NOT need a government propaganda machine to tell them horror stories day and night.
Actually, in all real epidemics, governments were trying to CALM the people; the fearmongering in this one was the first sign of something very fishy, right then in spring 2020.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @02:49AM
Ah, we're back to this. It's not happening, because there aren't dead bodies lying outside of my doorstep.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:08AM (21 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell [wikipedia.org]
More of nice doubleplusgood case law for you to support.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:13AM (20 children)
You know who else Hitler admired? Margaret Sanger! And, she admired Adolf as well!
(Score: 5, Informative) by dalek on Thursday December 02 2021, @04:30AM (3 children)
You're hardly the first to compare vaccine mandates to Nazi Germany. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/20/maine-heidi-sampson-nazi-vaccine/ [washingtonpost.com], https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/01/anchorage-mayor-bronson-star-of-david/ [washingtonpost.com], and https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/11/16/jeffrey-dinowitz-antisemitic-protest-vaccine/ [washingtonpost.com] for other similarly offensive comparisons.
From one of those articles:
Data clearly show that the three COVID vaccines authorized for use in the US are both safe and effective. How, exactly, does requiring vaccination equate to forced sterilization and other cruel medical experiments?
Your comparison of mandating safe and effective vaccines to historical atrocities is a false equivalency, asinine, and offensive.
THIS ACCOUNT IS PERMANENTLY CLOSED
(Score: 3, Insightful) by legont on Thursday December 02 2021, @07:45AM
Why did they force me to sign "I am responsible for anything" agreement before the vaccination? It actually said that the vaccine was not approved and I am taking it at my own risk.
This is a rhetorical question as I am off course know why. The risk is too high for any business and even the government to take so they force the agreement upon the people.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:27PM
I don't disagree with you, but please recall that forced sterilization continues to this day in the United States [washingtonpost.com].
This isn't the country I was sold as a child; this is some horrific 1984 shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @11:11PM
We see you! [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:51AM (9 children)
That admiration is exactly why she was one of the board members and chief fundraisers of the American Council Against Nazi Propaganda. That's what support looks like, right?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @12:37PM (8 children)
https://thecatholictruth.org/margaret-sanger-and-eugenics/ [thecatholictruth.org]
Sanger was no more anti-Nazi than Goering was.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @02:14PM (2 children)
You believe the Catholic Church?
--
No Communion - No Collection
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:53PM (1 child)
I trust the Catholic Church at least as much as I trust any political party. I trust a priest at least as much as I trust any politician. You might ask Sleepy Catholic Joe whether he trusts the Catholic Church.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @08:03PM
You trusted John Geoghan?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @03:12AM (4 children)
She was for eugenics not based on race through birth control and abortion (but explicitly spoke against euthanasia of the already born). While Catholics might think that is equivalent to industrialized murder of races or ethnicities you don't like regardless of any other attribute of theirs ala the Nazis, most of the world is not that far gone. Do you have any other "Sanger liked Nazis" arguments other than false equivocation?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 03 2021, @04:53AM (3 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w [youtube.com]
We have a loser here. Margaret Sanger was most certainly invested in eliminating the Black, or Negro race.
I'll grant that Sanger didn't lead KKK parades, nor did she visit the death camps in Germany to personally kill a few Jews. She probably didn't address black people to their faces as "nigger" or "Boy". But the bitch was far more racist than you can imagine. She often talked about the "weeds of society". To her, that meant Blacks, Slovaks, Asians, Native Americans, probably Mediteranean Euros, possibly even Germans. Let's remember that just a few generations ago, Germans weren't "white". Even in the 1950s, Slovaks weren't "white", nor were Italians. Sanger dreamed of a White World, just like Hitler did. A White World has room for Englishmen, Frenchmen, the Nordic peoples, and very little else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 04 2021, @01:03AM (1 child)
The "I'm not technically white so I can't technically be a cissy racist" defense.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 04 2021, @05:13AM
Wrong again. If a defense were needed, it would look more like, "You ignorant fools who can't tell an Englishman from a Slovak are in no position to judge anyone."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 04 2021, @05:02AM
That's a lot of words when you could have just said "no."
P.S. there is a pretty major hint in that last quote.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:02AM (2 children)
You like ice cream?
You know who else liked ice cream?
Adolf Hitler!
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:28AM
Nice false equivalency. But not as nice as a bowl of ice cream!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @02:38PM
So does the Pope.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/08/pope-francis-sends-ice-creams-rome-prisoners [theguardian.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @11:20AM (1 child)
Runaway admired Hitler, and Tucker Carlson, and Andrew Brietbarf, and Ann Coulter. Not to mention Hilary Clinton, and his future First Lady, Sarah Huckabee Something-Something. Poor Runaway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @02:26PM
and himself in the mirror.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:52PM
And by that same reasoning, anybody who enjoys listening to "Ride of the Valkyries" is a Nazi sympathizer.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:57AM
I suppose you missed the part about the ruling being specifically about the $5 fine being reasonable? If we're being honest, applying this decision to the current times would mean that states would be able to assess a $150 dollar fine (the equivalent scaled for inflation) for violating vaccine requirements. I'm pretty sure all of the many vaccine mandates flying around now are not merely $150 fines.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 3, Informative) by mhajicek on Thursday December 02 2021, @05:55AM
Our government kills people for recreational drugs...
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Thursday December 02 2021, @01:13PM
You're ordered to do things dozens of times per day from the federal to the local podunk town level. You're ordered to pay federal taxes, the state orders you to drive a certain speed on roads, the mom and pop store orders you to pay local sales tax...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 02 2021, @02:32PM
Have you told that to the Republicans?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:14PM (21 children)
There are clear reasons. Not just because it makes someone feel good.
We can and do order children to have several different vaccinations in order to enter the public school system.
We can and do require people to drive the speed limit. To pay taxes. To have their vehicle registered. To not rob banks. And quite a range of other things.
And there are actual reasons for these requirements!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @06:26PM (20 children)
Unfortunately, we can't order people to think for themselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 02 2021, @08:05PM (8 children)
You can think anything you want.
When you live in a society with other human beings, those others, as a group, may want to enforce certain codes, laws, conventions or even social norms. It has been this way for thousands of years.
I can understand that some people will find it infuriating that they cannot go out in public without any clothing, and cannot just rape and pillage as they see fit. It is terrible that other humans would like to force horrible speed limits on your freedom of driving at dangerous speeds.
Oh, the humanity!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @10:29PM (7 children)
*yawn*
I grew up learning all the social norms I need, thank you. When you start changing the norms, the rules, and the laws, I'll just opt out. I don't feel any need to spend the rest of my life appeasing the spoiled children who take themselves far too seriously, and failed to learn real social norms.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 02 2021, @10:38PM (6 children)
Not spreading disease to others is what most people consider a social norm. Maybe not where you live.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 02 2021, @10:45PM (5 children)
This conversation is getting spread all over the place - but I mentioned half measures somewhere today.
If the health department had declared a real quarantine early on, I would have participated, willingly. All the stupid shit we have done instead of quarantining have been nothing more than feel-good nonsense.
I'm not here to make scared people feel good.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @02:03AM (1 child)
Lies lies and more lies. You were calling it no big deal and equating lockdowns and masks with tyranny. Very common conservative behavior, pretend after the fact that they weren't selfish, stupid, and or evil. I consider you a mix of all three, but ymmv.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @05:14AM
When did you stop abusing your children?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03 2021, @02:53AM
*eyeball roll*
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday December 03 2021, @03:36PM (1 child)
I'm not scared. I am vaccinated. Wear a mask. And practice social distancing.
I have little to fear.
Other people might engage in foolish behavior (amatuer skydiving without a backup parachute) and are not scared.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 03 2021, @03:45PM
I would never skydive without a reversing parachute.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday December 03 2021, @03:38PM (10 children)
Has it ever occurred to you that people who:
1. get vaccinated
2. wear masks
3. social distance
ARE actually THINKING for themselves?
It is the people who refuse to do the above that are following cult like irrational behavior of lemmings without "thinking" marching towards the cliff.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 03 2021, @03:44PM (4 children)
It has occurred to me, yes. They soak in the fear mongering of the mainstream media, they think about the shit that scares them, and ultimately, run out to get the vax.
Now, you can extend the same courtesy to those who decline the vax. They've heard all the hyperbole, and decided that it's mostly hyperbole.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 06 2021, @03:32PM (3 children)
Bzzzzt. They take reasonable precautions. Sort like how people who look both ways before crossing the street "soak in the fear"
Just like I would to people who walk out into a busy street without looking both ways.
Getting vaxed is just one of many common sense things.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 06 2021, @04:11PM (2 children)
Ahhh, you got your weekend supply of Kool Aid? All topped up now, and ready to repeat those talking points. Happy Monday!!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 06 2021, @06:45PM (1 child)
We could talk about tornadoes. I assume Arkansas gets those.
People soaked in fear listen to the tornado warnings and take shelter underground. Those who can think for themselves and do not submit to "government control" ignore the warnings and go about their business as usual.
This is exactly how I see your support of the anti vax ignorance. You accuse the people who take precautions of not thinking, and of being fearful. Neither are true. I am less concerned about covid now that I am vaxxed than I was before. So is every vaxxed person I've spoken to. Which says how out of touch you are with people are are actually vaccinated. The two accusations you use "fear" and "not thinking for themselves" are in fact the exact opposite of the truth.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 06 2021, @09:26PM
Tornadoes? We have a tornado shelter. I've never sheltered in it. Spiders and snakes live in it most of the time, and they don't like being kicked out into a storm.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Saturday December 04 2021, @07:18PM (4 children)
Back when the government was saying, go on your vacations, go travel to china, it is perfectly safe. Were you telling all your friends to stay home and buckle down for a epidemic?
Back when the CDC was telling you to not wear a mask, that they did not work, were you making fun of people who wore masks on social media, or were you wearing one?
Because, while it might be circumstantial evidence, in my experience the exact same people who were publicly vocal about "those crazy people wearing face diapers" just became the people talking about "anti-maskers" a week later. And the people who said they would never take the "trump-vaccine" just became the ones calling for the forced vaccines.
While it is entirely possible you are a reasonable, sane, and intelligent person; perhaps it is just a bad coincidence that your philosophy has landed you right in the midst of a bunch of irrational nutjobs. You cannot expect people to take you seriously. I don't know if their is any solution, but you will just be lumped in with these people if you shares the same current beliefs even if your side does deserved to be argued.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 06 2021, @03:38PM (3 children)
I first ordered face masks in quantity in January 2020. I was never making fun of people wearing them. I can't make sense of what you are trying to say.
Back when
the governmentTRUMP was saying to travel to China, I would have been hesitant to do so because evidence was that COVID-19 has started in China and was spreading. I wouldn't and wouldn't have recommended anyone to travel there.I was never someone saying I wouldn't take a "trump vaccine". In fact, I had never heard that term before reading your post. If anything, Trump followers are the very people are are the most anti-vax. I've posted two different independent surveys from reputable pollsters in two separate journal articles on SN which show that, more than any other single factor, politics is the biggest determiner by far of whether someone will get vaccinated. And guess what: it is not the Trump supporters who are vaccine supporters. So you seem to have it backwards.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Monday December 06 2021, @04:21PM (1 child)
I am saying that people that push for more lockdowns, vaccinations, and similar things are often seen by others are cultish and brainwashed because of some very vocal people who currently share those views who didn't back when it most made sense to.
I am saying that unfortunately, even if you never parroted the CDC, world health organization, CNN, or social media you will still be lumped in with the crazies as they are just so vocal.
For your second half. I am not talking about who takes or does not take the vaccine, I am talking about who just parrots blindly. Back when Biden went on recorded every other day denigrating the vaccine and its safety. I could get behind that, I could say yes, we do need transparency, accountability, and proof of safety. But when he just did a 180 and changed his stance the second the election was over, anyone who just followed him is clearly just brainwashed.
Did we really need to get political? Come on man, have some sense. Sure, I absolutely believe that Trump was not hard enough on keeping the virus out of North America back in early 2019. But when he finally got around to trying to close borders and lockdown the countries he was fighting Democrats to do this, he was absolutely a month or so ahead of the curve on this is still 2 months behind sane people and probably over 6 months behind informed and knowledgeable people. But from day one, Trump has been pushing lockdown, border closers, and vaccine. He celebrated vaccines in office, he called for people to take them out of office.
Harris and Biden could of said, "we disagree on a lot of things, but I agree with him that vaccines are safe and effective" Or they could of just said "vaccines are safe and effective" but instead we got:
"If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." - Aug. 6, 2020, Joe Biden
And similar, anything Trump says about the vaccine is a lie, and it will probably be unsafe. And at best we get that if doctors and scientists can absolutely prove its efficacy than maybe we could overlook that Trump endorsed it.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 06 2021, @06:53PM
I would rather not. But it seems to be political whether I like it or not. Politics is by far the strongest predictor of vaccination status. It is just a fact.
Politics also seems to correlate with mask wearing. And belief it quite a few conspiracy theories about covid. So it is political regardless of what you and I may want. I would prefer people made decisions based on science, experts, medicine, understanding of how contageous diseases work, etc. The advice of doctors, even your own personal local doctor, and epidemologists, etc.
No matter what Biden said Aug 6, 2020, about 7 BILLION doses of vaccine have now been given globally. About 42% of the global population is fully vaccinated. That is a very solid statistical base at this point to know what problems it might cause and in what percentages of the population.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 06 2021, @04:25PM
Waitaminit. TRUMP was encouraging people to travel to China? Citations needed.