SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
TSMC Founder: Pat Gelsinger Too Old to Make Intel Great Again - TSMC and Intel exchange rants.
After less than a year into his tenure as Intel's chief executive, Pat Gelsinger has set up the company's process technology roadmap that spans through 2025 and introduced the company's IDM 2.0 foundry strategy. But the ambitious CEO may not have enough time to bring Intel back to its glory days, said Morris Chang, the founder and a former CEO of TSMC, reports UDN.
Pat Gelsinger is 60, and there is a rule that Intel's executives must retire at the age of 65. As a result, Gelsinger may not have enough time to put Intel back in a manufacturing technology leadership position, Chang noted while delivering his lecture 'Cherish Taiwan's Advantages in Semiconductor Wafer Manufacturing.'
[...] TSMC is not particularly happy with Gelsinger. Last week, he said that the reliance on Taiwan as the global hub for semiconductor manufacturing was a significant risk since China had never given up plans to capture the country.
"Taiwan is not a stable place," said Gelsinger at Fortune Brainstorm Tech, reports Nikkei. "Beijing sent 27 warplanes to Taiwan's air defense identification zone this week. Does that make you feel more comfortable or less?"
He also re-emphasized his view that foreign semiconductor companies should not receive subsidies from the U.S. government to build new fabs under the $52-billion CHIPS act. Gelsinger called on the U.S. government to provide incentives only for American chipmakers. He argued that semiconductor companies from China, Taiwan and South Korea received major aid from their respective governments, which made it harder for American companies like Intel to compete.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @11:32AM (53 children)
We're going to fight the next war over Taiwan, and more specifically, TSMC and our lack of a serious domestic replacement for it.
This is stupid. We need to let China have Taiwan, because we can't keep playing this game without another Vietnam or Korea or WWIII. We need to replace TSMC with a fully competitive domestic replacement--and ban foreign investment in it, because otherwise, we'll just sell it back to the Chinese like all our other companies.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @12:00PM (35 children)
Intel's best chip designers are based in Israel.
Shouldn't we worry more about stray rockets from Tehran or Gaza?
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @12:11PM (26 children)
No?
The Israelis have killed far more, and even Netanyahu went on national TV and admitted to breaking the cease fire first, several years ago. They claimed it was a "pre-emptive strike across the border".
Look, I get that they're firing rockets at Israelis, but they're pretty much David to Israel's Goliath. Israel kills hundreds of civilians, women and children, for each individual Israeli death, statistically. In the US, you can't actually admit that, and there's a hard line of propaganda to cover up that fact, because Israel is essentially a US client state. We can't go badmouthing our own genocidal maniacs.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday December 09 2021, @12:20PM (2 children)
Exactly. "He may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch" (FDR) has been US policy for over eighty years.
Problem is that the vast majority of the SOBs the US supports are their own SOBs, not the US' B's. They just go through the motions to get US support, which works pretty much every time. It's got a bit harder in recent years since you need to do a bit more than claim you're anti-communist in order to get free access to funding, weapons, and ignoring of the fact that you're dropping people you don't like out of helicopters into the ocean, but it's still every dictator's most useful meal ticket.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Thursday December 09 2021, @12:43PM (1 child)
> Problem is that the vast majority of the SOBs the US supports are their own SOBs, not the US' B's
Romans went for a couple of hundred years doing it that way. Eventually they gave up and started putting in Roman governors for their client states. That didn't work either, the governors got "uppity" and started deposing emperors.
Brits started with corporate-owned client states and again moved on to governors (I'm thinking mainly about India here). We only kept things going for about 150 years before de-colonising.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Thursday December 09 2021, @12:50PM
Interesting to compare it to what being Putin's bitch entails: You need to be between Russia and the rest of the world and you need to really, really seriously be Putin's bitch. No going through the motions there.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Thursday December 09 2021, @01:34PM (2 children)
You just acknowledged the reason that Hamas waived that fair fight. Should murderers get a fair fight against the police? Should the police send one person at a time until the criminal surrenders peacefully?
Hamas knows how to stop that. It's not launching rockets at random places in Israel.
Who would that be?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:14PM (1 child)
um the israeli govt.
trouble is USA learnt its imperial coloniaism directly from mother europe, and nothing is new under the sun.
peace will not come from discovery of who threw the first stone, or by encouraging lesseer powers to go at it, rather by being the first to lay down the stone.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Friday December 10 2021, @08:34AM
But I think insight will come to you from such a discovery.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:06PM (10 children)
I'll admit it for you. Feel better?
Now, let's do a little mind exercise. China and the US go to war, over whatever pretext. If it's allowed to become a war of attrition, one death for one death, China wins by default. That has been a well-known fact for as long as intelligent people have considered the possibility. So, our answer is, if there's a war, we kill hundreds of theirs for every one of our losses.
Now, look back to Israel. The day that Arabs gain an equal footing, killing one Israeli for every Arab lost, then the Arabs win by default. They just keep the pressure up, until Israel collapses. Put yourself in Israel's position, and tell us that you wouldn't kill hundreds for every one of your own losses.
Now that you've played the mind game, you need to add something to the equation. Maybe not every Moslem in the world is fanatical about killing Israelis and/or Jews, but, their Koran teaches that in some great final war, Jews will try to hide under rocks. And, the very rocks will cry out, telling Moslems that a Jew is hiding beneath it. Everyone seems to forget that there are religious aspects to all of Israeli dealings with Arabs, or with Moslems.
So, again, I say that when Arabs gain an equal footing, one death for one death, there will be boatloads of martyrs volunteering to kill an Israeli.
They either continue killing hundreds for every loss, or Israel vanishes from the face of the earth - again. I can live without an Israel, I suppose. But, I admire the fighting spirit that has kept Israel alive in the face of overwhelming force for 7 decades.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:10PM (9 children)
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:19PM (8 children)
You're obviously too stupid to understand the words you use. WTF is racist about observing that there are more Chinese than there are Americans? Or, observing that there are more Arabs and Moslems than there are Israelis? Expand your vocabulary, and in the process, try to get an education.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @03:48PM (2 children)
He called you a racist for supposing that you could live in a world without an Isreal, I think.
Which still makes him an idiot, since Isreal != Jew. Had you said you suppose you could live in a world without Jews, that would be a lot closer to being racist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @09:48PM (1 child)
Given its current usage the word "racist" has basically devolved into an insult to fling at anyone who dares to voice disagreement.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Friday December 10 2021, @03:43AM
And Runaway, who is actually old school un-educated white trash racist. Doesn't like to have it pointed out, however.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:04PM (4 children)
Your post was racist in its depiction of arabs and "moslems". Your post was mostly about that totally unrelated issue. The topic is Taiwan, not Israel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @06:00PM (2 children)
"Moslems". Clearly racist. We call them "Muslims" now, which is totally different.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @01:34AM (1 child)
Give white supremacists an inch and innocent people get murdered.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @02:52AM
Comrade Stalin would like a word with you ...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @07:18PM
Would Mohammedan make you feel better? And, if you can't understand the comparison, don't cry to me.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Thursday December 09 2021, @03:54PM (8 children)
Opinion: if Mexico were to frequently fire rockets at US civilians, and keep doing so, repeatedly, even after many retaliatory strikes, I strongly suspect we would react far more strongly than Israel has. IMO, Israel has been very restrained in its reaction.
It is your right if you happen to disagree.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:35PM (2 children)
If the US invaded Mexican lands and stole them from me in living memory, I'd be firing rockets too. What the hell do you people not understand about theft?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:26PM
The Israeli settlers are undocumented migrants! You have just revealed your own antisemitism and racism by the mere notion of suggesting that they are invaders.
The Palestinians want to murder people over property. Wow, how bloodthirsty of you to place more value over property than the lives of other people.
I have it on good authority that whenever people try to steal your property, the proper response is to let them have it. All you need to do is use your theft insurance afterward.
Why is it so hard for the Palestinians to understand these simple concepts?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @08:55AM
So what you're saying is that you, too, would transport a deadly weapon across nation state lines.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:38PM (4 children)
Israel was imposed on the defacto British colony of Palestine as an ethnostate based on one race and religion. There was resistance to that. Then Israel fought a war as a result and occupied conquered lands. The people living on those lands were told, "finders keepers". What you see now is a war that turned into guerrilla warfare. It never ended.
Now, would I defend myself against attacks if I were Israel? Of course. But does Israel keep inciting Palestinians? Yes.
It's not really my war, so I don't get worked up about it. These things only end when both sides are well enough off that war makes no sense, it destroys what they have, but that won't happen here. Palestine is a dumpster fire with no hope of being better off. They are occupied and stuffed into a closet whose ingress and egress the Israelis control.
They other way wars end is if you kill off most of your opponents. So far, that approach has not been taken in the conflict.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:05PM (3 children)
There are Palestinians who live and work peacefully in Israel.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:27PM
As second class citizens, serfs in lands that they have just as much claim to as any Israeli Jew.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jelizondo on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:34PM
Also there were many black Africans living and working peacefully in every British colony in the Americas, but I would not want that sort of life and you wouldn't either, so what’s your point?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @09:30PM
Yup! They are called collaborators.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday December 09 2021, @01:40PM (7 children)
Not sure it should be more or less worrying. More that it's worrying that a lot of chip design and manufacturing is located in such troubling places in general. Our current situation is shit more or less due to logistics and that people didn't work constantly due to the pandemic. I guess it will be irrelevant compared to either of these two places (Taiwan, Israel) gets dragged into another war. The only upstart here is that at least Israel tends to win their wars, Taiwan probably won't unless the USA and suitable allies in the area such as Japan etc step in. Which just takes it to a whole new scale of bad.
But if there is a war in the region then the chip shortage of today will seem like a teensyweensy little problem then. But considering the sabre rattling with China, Russia etc. It's surprising that western nations are so nonchalant about the whole thing. There is a real lack of planning and doing something about the chip and or production imbalance in general. There is planning but there is no talk of a replacement or relocation of production in sufficient capacity. Certainly so since it's not something that can just start up here tomorrow of things turn hot and the supply quickly dwindles.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:12PM (6 children)
I think our situation is shit because a lot of already wealthy people decided to become traitors to their country by exporting all the manufacturing tech possible, so they could become a little more wealthy. I'll point out Mitt Romney, but he is far from being unique. And, there are all those other traitors, like the Wal-Mart heirs who have forgotten all about 'Made in America', and invested in the production of counterfeit goods made in China.
We are where we are, because of greedy SOBs who don't care about their country.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @03:38PM
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
-- Thomas Jefferson
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:18PM
Profit, even above the good of one's own country.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:31PM (2 children)
It would help a lot to have some resources on how to quickly buy goods not/made in a given country. A special Amazon.com search, a special project of Amnesty International, some random blogger -- anything would be useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:48PM
Not a perfect solution, but https://www.wecultivate.us/ [wecultivate.us] apparently have browser extensions which add the true country of origin to Amazon search results.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday December 10 2021, @03:09PM
Do not try to bend the spoon, because that is impossible. Instead, realize that Amazon already bent it for you. Made in China. *Results may vary*
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @03:46AM
BOHICA! Runsaway is thinking, again!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 09 2021, @01:26PM (7 children)
Who is "we"? And what will "we" need to let China have after that? Appeasement has a terrible track record.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @01:38PM (6 children)
"We" [maritime-executive.com] need to get out of the conflict over Taiwan.
And this has nothing to do with appeasement. Fuck that. This is strategic. We need to stop dumping good money after bad. That amount of money can get us a TSMC equivalent at home, more defensibly.
TSMC is the primary reason we even give half a shit about Taiwan anymore, and that's becoming increasingly expensive. The opportunity costs for it alone could be better spent on local industry.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @02:13PM (3 children)
You're right, but what about the human factor? Americans are already known to abandon allies when it is convenient to do so.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:48PM (2 children)
Everyone abandons allies when it's convenient. That's called "politics."
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 09 2021, @07:15PM (1 child)
That's better called "dishonorable".
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @07:42PM
They're in our prayers to Jewsus!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 09 2021, @06:47PM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 09 2021, @06:51PM
It could, but it won't. I assume you haven't heard about the US's abysmal failure rate with that sort of infrastructure investment. And of course, why go through that exercise when we already have a TSMC?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Thursday December 09 2021, @01:45PM (1 child)
This again.
https://www.tsmc.com/english/aboutTSMC/TSMC_Fabs [tsmc.com]
See: Fab10, Fab11, Fab16.
China is already at very good terms with TSMC. It's only Americans playing either stupid or a international bully all the time.
Literally, Huawei is the biggest TSMC customer this year. Not Apple. Not AMD. Not Intel. The Huawei is.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday December 09 2021, @08:06PM
Those fabs located in China (aka West Taiwan) are comparably trash. Useful, but old nodes like "28nm". No EUV machines in sight.
America is not the one bullying Taiwan with warplanes [cnn.com].
Can you name TSMC's top three chip-hungry customers? [phonearena.com]
Apple, AMD, and MediaTek are now TSMC's largest customers.
TSMC revenues soar as end of Huawei relationship is confirmed [telecoms.com]
TSMC’s largest customer makes up 25% of revenue [taipeitimes.com]
Huawei looking to trick the US trade ban by licensing smartphone designs [phonearena.com]
Huawei may launch Mate 40E Pro with Kirin 990 5G as Kirin 9000 SoC stock runs dry [gizmochina.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:21PM (4 children)
If we sell Taiwan to China, we need to get a super duper, extra strength pinky swear that China will pay us for it, eventually.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday December 09 2021, @04:34PM (3 children)
How about in exchange for paying for the border wall right away? I bet in a twisted, dystopian way, that "Art of the Deal" would actually succeed.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by DannyB on Thursday December 09 2021, @05:25PM (2 children)
Let's wait and see how Trump's "Truth SOCIAL" will succeed.
Like his casinos? Like his marriages?
Funny that the most well known prolific liar would name his social media site "Truth". Yet its TOS has all the same things in it that he complained about when he violated the TOS.
I think it may end in financial / legal scandal before it launches, IMO.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by krishnoid on Thursday December 09 2021, @08:06PM (1 child)
The U.S. divorce rate is 30-50%, so anyone's odds aren't great when it comes to that. But a stake in the ground is *losing* money when you're running a *casino*. I don't think something like that would even rate a case study in an Intro to Business Management class, unless it fell into the "perverse microeconomics" category.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 09 2021, @11:29PM
Have you been to Atlantic City recently? Even before the plandemic, the entire city with its casinos was dead meat. No activity at all. I expected tumbleweeds to roll across the street.
That being said, a casino in a non-monopoly area seems at risk of low profit margins as any other business. Somebody's always there to undercut you. And AC's bread and butter, retirees bused in from NYC, have had alternatives elsewhere since the late 1990s. Mohegan Sun was big when I lived in NY. Doubtlessly NY State has casinos of their own now. Pennsylvania definitely does, which cut out AC's Philadelphia customers.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday December 10 2021, @03:05PM
WWIII is likely to be a lot less about "being the good guy" and have a lot more to do with Economics. Then again, by that same token, WWIII would likely hit everyone in the pocket book and no one wants that. Except, a few deranged people. Also, there's a reason there's been no WWIII. The destruction that an "advanced civilization" can rain down on anyone is much greater than in WWII. We have the technology and destructive power to really screw up the planet, not just make X country a wasteland for a hundred years. Then again, maybe there won't ever be an invasion of a "super power", because of the whole, nuclear retaliation issue. I really hope we never have a WWIII.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11 2021, @02:09AM
No, if a large country with a proven record of fuckery wants to absorb a small country that has stated, in no uncertain terms, that it does Not want to be absorbed, then we have a goddamn duty as human beings to stand up and be the shields against tyranny, cost be damned.
Yes, I realize how... ironic, that sounds, when referring to the USA as the shield. But, there it is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @09:13PM (1 child)
so after the nm can't get any smaller, we will have android 15 that is for-ever updatable ... but not before.
i wonder if there's a invisible external force holding back intel and everybody is milking the nm shrinking of arm by tscm until they say they can't go any further, then drop a bomb and "letting intel out of the gate"?
so basically the nm shrinking numbers are like a countdown to war in s.e. asia?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @09:29PM
i wonder if linus einstux will be allowed to leave germany ... errr... the usa then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 10 2021, @11:22PM
I thought age limits were considered discrimination except for specific safety related jobs.