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Journal by DannyB

Dominion Voting wins key decision in lawsuit against Fox News

(don't shoot the messenger unless you intend to ask questions later)
I'll only quote facts reported in the article rather than any opinion. Each fact is either true or false, regardless of the source that reports it.

1: A judge in Delaware has found that Fox News' coverage of election fraud after the 2020 election may have been inaccurate, and is allowing a major defamation case against the right-wing TV network to move forward.

2: Judge Eric Davis of the Delaware Superior Court declined to dismiss Dominion Voting System's lawsuit against Fox News in a significant ruling Thursday.

3: The ruling will now allow Dominion to attempt to unearth extensive communications within Fox News as they gather evidence for the case, and the company may be able to interview the network's top names under oath.

4: Davis called out, in the 52-page opinion, that Fox News may have slanted its coverage to push election fraud, knowing the accusations were wrong.

5: Dominion alerted the network's anchors and executives to information that disproved accusations of widespread vote-switching following Donald Trump's re-election loss, the judge noted.

6: The lawsuit alleges Fox News personalities including Tucker Carlson, Jeanine Pirro, Sean Hannity and their on-air guests Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell and Mike Lindell spread lies about fraud in the 2020 election that hurt Dominion's business. It is one of several lawsuits Dominion has brought related to right-wing claims after the election, and is a major win for the company.

Was there bamboo on the ballots? Did the voting machines have constant contact with servers outside the US via Italian satellites?

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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 17 2021, @11:22PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 17 2021, @11:22PM (#1205978)

    Whatabout CNN?

    WhatabOut all the PROOF that even the users here on little old Soylent News knew about?

    WHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH DANNY????

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:06AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:06AM (#1206024)

      Danny cares about truth. But it's more important to gloat over the fact the Dems are running this country at the moment. Dems, or progressives, or liberals, or senile old fools who can't remember what party they belong to. ANYONE NOT TRUMP!!

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:28AM (#1206062)

        Aww someone mad that even a racist old boomer like Biden was preferable to the Conman in Chief.

        But please, do explain how this journal is gloating. Maybe you're just having a little trouble with the unseasonable heat?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:09AM (26 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:09AM (#1206025)

    These don't look like facts to me

    major

    significant

    Not to mention that this is all just, like, some judge's opinion, man!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @02:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @02:25AM (#1206046)

      You're right. Those are not facts.

      Those are adjectives.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:38AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:38AM (#1206098)

      MAJOR
      4a: notable or conspicuous in effect or scope : CONSIDERABLE
      a major improvement
      b : prominent or significant in size, amount, or degree
      earned some major cash

      Seems like the first use of major fits that second definition because we are talking about a potential judgment over one billion dollars. The second use of major fits the first definition because a ruling the other way means the whole case is dead.

      SIGNIFICANT
      2: very important

      Seems like the use of "significant" also meets that definition in the context of the lawsuit. Again, a ruling the other direction means the whole lawsuit is out and there are no more bites at the billion dollar apple.

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:50PM (23 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:50PM (#1206166) Homepage Journal

      Facts, you say? Have you watched very many trials? Facts are whatever the judge and council agree them to be. Watch the Rittenhouse trial again - it's still available on Youtube. A lot of "facts" were decided out of sight and hearing of the jury. Take the term "victims" as an example. Binger and company desperately wanted to depict the people who were shot as "victims". In a kind of technical sense, all three people were victims. In medical terms, they were the victims of gunshot wounds. However, in legal terms, those same victims were the perpetrators of actions which resulted in gunshot wounds, which removes their legal status as "victims". While the judge did no exactly spell out in legalese why they were not victims, he did note that the use of the term was prejudicial to the defendant.

      So, facts. Facts are whatever the legal community agrees to, and/or whatever the judge dictates them to be.

      Going a little further, there was a small ship load of facts that the prosecution did NOT want presented to the jury, and the judge agreed with. Such as the fact that one dead man was a lunatic who had just been released from the asylum after a suicide attempt, only hours before committing suicide by Rittenhouse. Or the fact that the other dead guy had a criminal history. Or that the wounded man had a criminal history, which precluded him from possessing a firearm, clearly present in his attempt to kill Rittenhouse.

      Yes, think about facts. But, to be perfectly honest, court only accepts those facts that the court chooses to allow.

      --
      Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:13PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:13PM (#1206184)

        You're a special kind of stupid.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:29PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) on Saturday December 18 2021, @07:29PM (#1206192) Homepage Journal

          Or, maybe, you're a special kind of blind? Let me rephrase, in a manner that you cannot possibly deny: The jury does not get "all the facts" that might be pertinent to their decision. It is agreed among the prosecution, the defense, and the court which facts they will get to work with, and the jury is denied those facts that are not agreed on.

          --
          Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @11:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @11:59PM (#1206255)

            Extra stupid, thanks my pet troll Benny is gonna feed for a week on that.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @03:17PM (19 children)

        by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @03:17PM (#1206649) Journal

        The facts are that the judge made this ruling and wrote those things.

        That is actual news. Not an opinion by talking heads pontificating or outright lying and calling it news. It is simple reporting of a development in an ongoing court case. Simple facts about the progress of the case.

        --
        If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 20 2021, @03:21PM (18 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) on Monday December 20 2021, @03:21PM (#1206651) Homepage Journal

          lol

          --
          Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @04:48PM (17 children)

            by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @04:48PM (#1206681) Journal

            What? Do you think this didn't happen? That the case is not progressing?

            --
            If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 20 2021, @05:05PM (16 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) on Monday December 20 2021, @05:05PM (#1206684) Homepage Journal

              I think it's more than half political bullshit is what I think. There's a witch hunt at the moment, and Dems want to test every duck they find to see if it floats or not. Meanwhile - how's the midterm election looking?

              --
              Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @06:14PM (15 children)

                by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @06:14PM (#1206704) Journal

                political bullshit

                You've totally lost touch. This is (one of several) defamation lawsuit filed by a commercial company.

                Dominion is rightfully upset at those it has sued. Those it has sued told outright verifiable LIES causing financial damage.

                1. This is a commercial company.
                2. They make equipment for voting. Their interest is to make equipment that is accurate.
                3. Fox News, Lou Dobbs, Sidney Powell, Rudy Guiliani and others made numerous false claims about Dominion Voting.
                4. As laid out in one of my prior journal articles, Dominion's lawsuit is specific and detailed in pointing out these false statements.
                5. These false statements could have been easily verified to be false by either Fox or those making the statements.
                6. These false statements cost Dominion a lot of money in lost contracts, which they can prove.
                7. This lawsuit is real and not a figment of my imagination or some kind of political conspiracy.

                There's a witch hunt at the moment

                Wow.

                You really don't even have a clue what this is about.

                Dems want to test every duck they find to see if it floats or not. Meanwhile - how's the midterm election looking?

                Completely irrelevant and unrelated to this lawsuit by a commercial company and those who defamed it with their brazen lies.

                --
                If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 20 2021, @08:53PM (14 children)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) on Monday December 20 2021, @08:53PM (#1206728) Homepage Journal

                  Yes, I haz cluez, thank you very much. As I said, it's a political witch hunt. Oh, wait, you don't think the courts can be involved in witch hunts? Maybe you should look up McCarthyism, and all the shenanigans that took place then.

                  --
                  Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:24AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:24AM (#1206799)

                    Ok APK

                  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday December 21 2021, @03:28PM (12 children)

                    by DannyB (5839) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @03:28PM (#1206845) Journal

                    How is the extensively detailed complaint by Dominion a witch hunt?

                    Fox News and its guest said various things that were lies. The complaint details each and every one for hundreds of pages. Who said exactly what, which air date, which FOX News program, etc.

                    The complaint details how easily every one of these lies could have been fact checked at the time.

                    The complaint details exactly Dominion was damaged.

                    Is it Dominion that is on a witch hunt? Or are they a damaged party suing for civil damages in the court system??

                    How pray tell is the Court system being used as a political witch hunt.

                    I know about McCarthyism. Please explain how this is similar rather than throwing names around. McCarthy had an briefcase with imaginary documents of known communist sympathizers.

                    --
                    If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:46PM (11 children)

                      by Runaway1956 (2926) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:46PM (#1206884) Homepage Journal

                      It's a witch hunt because for over 200 years, political speech was free speech. That is, politicians could say anything, and never be held liable. That is still mostly true today, almost every politician in Washington has been quoted saying something blatantly untrue and dishonest. The oxycontin business is back in the news, right? That whole scandal was kicked off by a doctor making blatantly false claims that less than 1% of oxycontin users would ever become addicted. Oxycontin became a political issue because the Sacklers bought and paid for representation in Washington. Virtually all of Washington, and half or more of the medical community sucked up those claims, and stuck by them long after the claims were proven false.

                      Aside from the Sacklers, I'm unaware of anyone who has been held liable for making, or repeating claims that oxycontin was non-addictive. Doctors, no matter how famous or how obscure, should all have known better, but they repeated the lies, pushed the drugs, and pocketed the money. Sales reps are a bit more slippery - you expect sales reps to lie to you. Even so, they repeated the lies, again and again, pushing their drugs, never questioning the "facts" that were lining their pockets.

                      Politics. If Fox and the rest are going to be prosecuted for politically motivated lies, we can expect the same to happen in the future. And, some of those future scenarios may not be so pleasing to you.

                      --
                      Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday December 21 2021, @06:31PM (10 children)

                        by DannyB (5839) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @06:31PM (#1206896) Journal

                        Political speech is free speech.

                        Outright lies and defamation is NOT political speech. It is not a political statement to say that Brand XYZ's voting machines are secretly connected to servers on planet Neptune. That is just an outright lie and defamation. Something that SHOULD ALWAYS be able to be the subject of a defamation lawsuit. Now and into the future. And no matter which foot the shoe is on.

                        If you have a political statement about how much or little we should tax, or spend, or which bridges we should build or not build, that is great! Speak your mind!

                        The matter of the Sacklers and oxycontin seems like a criminal matter to me and not a purely political matter. Although politicians might have opinions about it. And they should say things about it if they have an opinion. But . . . protip: don't venture into the realm of defamation or nonsense (the Sacklers were controlled by the aliens from andromeda). Clue: by doing so you could be eliminating the ability for them, and their victims to get a fair trial.

                        If Fox and the rest are going to be prosecuted for politically motivated lies, we can expect the same to happen in the future. And, some of those future scenarios may not be so pleasing to you.

                        I think brazen politically motivated lies that cause substantial material damage to private companies SHOULD be prosecuted. Especially when the lies are so easily fact checked. Yet a supposed "news" outlet gives a stage to this nonsense, without any fact checking.

                        I would be fine with a defamation lawsuit in that case, no matter which foot the shoe is on. What is compatible with the Goose is also compatible with the Gander without the need of any special adapters or cables.

                        --
                        If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:06PM (9 children)

                          by Runaway1956 (2926) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:06PM (#1206915) Homepage Journal

                          Outright lies and defamation is NOT political speech.

                          You need to dig into past elections. Candidates have resorted to everything, from accusations of child molestation, marital infidelity, crime connections, satan worship - there is no taboo that has not been violated in politics. Political rhetoric is rhetoric, always has been always will be.

                          https://study.com/academy/lesson/political-mudslinging-definition-examples.html [study.com]

                          That's just a starter, nothing more, and nothing less.

                           

                          --
                          Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:19PM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:19PM (#1206922)

                            Just get fucked you partisan hack. DonnieT has shown everyone how morally bankrupt you are as you continue to support the lies and fascism. Shove your identity politics waaaaay up your butt.

                          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:27PM (6 children)

                            by DannyB (5839) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:27PM (#1206924) Journal

                            An individual can also sue for defamation. A famous person or celebrity has a harder time suing for defamation but it can be done. The person who made the defamatory statement can always use the truth of their statement as an absolute defense.

                            Dominion is a company. Not running for political office. They make machines. That count votes. That is their business. They don't care about candidates or elections. They care about selling machines because they have a good reputation. Ditto for Smartmatic which has its own defamation lawsuits against some individuals and organizations.

                            --
                            If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:50PM (5 children)

                              by Runaway1956 (2926) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:50PM (#1206938) Homepage Journal

                              They care about selling machines because they have a good reputation.

                              If you say so. They are also in a position to influence elections and results of elections.

                              All of that aside, you're not really concerned that Dominion may or may not have been "damaged" by allegations made against them. The alleged damage, for any private citizen in America, is just another drama to distract you from real news. You are far more concerned about making Trump and Republicans look bad. And, that is part of the witch hunt.

                              --
                              Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                              • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 22 2021, @02:54PM (4 children)

                                by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @02:54PM (#1207087) Journal

                                [Dominion] are also in a position to influence elections and results of elections.

                                Anyone who says they have done so should provide evidence of their outlandish claims. And the things they were saying are loony bin crazy ravings that don't even pass the laugh test. If Dominion had influenced the results, then bring the evidence as a defense of the defamation suit -- after all, Truth is an absolute defense against a defamation claim. Should be quite simple really.

                                just another drama to distract you from real news. You are far more concerned about making Trump and Republicans look bad. And, that is part of the witch hunt.

                                Not true.

                                I would like to see a bunch of lying liars who tell outrageous falsehoods, on a supposed "news" network get some actual justice for the damage they have done. What they have done to these two voting machine companies is an outrageous injustice. You would think so too if they had damaged your business and hard won reputation and contracts.

                                You just want to see an outrageous injustice go unpunished because your God Emperor and Savior would look bad worse.

                                --
                                If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:20PM (3 children)

                                  by Runaway1956 (2926) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:20PM (#1207140) Homepage Journal

                                  Outrageous, outrageous, outrageous. Were you equally outspoken when Hillary Clinton abandoned some special forces people in Africa, and refused to take any action that might have saved them? Never forget, even if she had been correct that our people couldn't get there in time, our people could at least have taken vengeance in a timely manner.

                                  Outrageous, outrageous, outrageous. I agree, there have been a lot of outrageous things done in Washington. Funny though, which ones you seem to get worked up about.

                                  --
                                  Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                                  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:37PM (2 children)

                                    by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:37PM (#1207146) Journal

                                    Dominion and Smartmatic have nothing ZERO to do with Washington. Or politics. Or politicians. Or Trump. Or Hillary. Or any political party.

                                    This is about a "news" organization spreading lies (not political speech at all). Causing substantial material damage. And the individuals who created and spread those lies.

                                    Saying someone's stand alone machines that don't have internet connections are connected to Italian satellites or to a dead dictator is a lie that is verifiably false at the time that lie was uttered. It would have been easy to fact check that these models of machines have no internet connections. On purpose.

                                    Dominion lays all this out in its lawsuit.

                                    --
                                    If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:49PM (1 child)

                                      by Runaway1956 (2926) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:49PM (#1207153) Homepage Journal

                                      Whatever, Danny. You're beating a dead horse. You're wrong on most counts.

                                      --
                                      Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
                                      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 22 2021, @06:46PM

                                        by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @06:46PM (#1207169) Journal

                                        Voting machines must be right on all counts.

                                        New story:

                                        Dominion Voting Systems slams Patrick Byrne’s bid to dismiss $1.7 billion lawsuit [sltrib.com]

                                        A summary of this individual's lies:

                                        Dominion’s voting software was built for Hugo Chávez to rig elections;

                                                Dominion intentionally and purposefully designed and built its voting software to facilitate systemic election fraud;

                                                Dominion machines flipped votes from Trump to Biden in the 2020 Presidential Election, including through the use of a secret algorithm, even in jurisdictions where Dominion machines were not used;

                                                Dominion ran a rigged 2018 federal election in Dallas, Texas (a jurisdiction where Dominion machines were not even used);

                                                Dominion allowed foreign countries, including China, to hack its voting machines during the 2020 Presidential Election and flip votes from Trump to Biden;

                                                Dominion bribed senior officials in at least two states to win contracts to supply voting machines to those jurisdictions;

                                                Dominion servers were used in the 2016 Democratic presidential primary to steal votes for Hillary Clinton and that former Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich was murdered because he knew it; and

                                                Dominion ordered and paid for the illegal shredding of ballots from the 2020 Election.

                                        Why should the guy be moving for dismissal? All he has to do is demonstrate that his lies were the truth. Truth of the statements is an absolute defense.

                                        --
                                        If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
                          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 22 2021, @12:24AM

                            by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday December 22 2021, @12:24AM (#1206986) Journal

                            Well, just because they have been doing it for hundreds of years [mentalfloss.com], doesn't mean you should keep doing it, not that I trust a voting machine as far as you can throw it, so I don't sympathize. "Defamation/Libel" is just a rich man's game anyway, used to take away the only free thing a person has. Real bullets cost money.

                            --
                            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:14AM (16 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday December 18 2021, @01:14AM (#1206027) Journal

    Just demand paper and put the issue in its grave

    --
    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:31AM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:31AM (#1206064)

      Hehe fusty leaks some more of his rightwing leanings. Gotta give you credit man, longest running troll that rarely gave real hints to your full opinions. Well beyond your tired harping of "dems bad, but both sides kekekekek."

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:53AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:53AM (#1206067)

        Heh, smell the democrat

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:40PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:40PM (#1206164)

          That not a democrat you smell, that DJT's diaper.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:51PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @04:51PM (#1206167)

            That not a democrat you smell, that Sleepy Joe's diaper.

            FTFY

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @05:20PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @05:20PM (#1206171)

                      That's not a democrat you smell, that's Runaway's diaper.

              FTFY

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @08:45PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @08:45PM (#1206206)

            Trump is a democrat

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @08:40PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @08:40PM (#1206205)

        :-) You are the funny... along with the rest of your shtick, you are making verifiable voting into a right wing crusade now? I guess congratulations are in order...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @09:28PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 18 2021, @09:28PM (#1206227)

          Interesting choice of wording, yes voting has become a rightwing crusade, a battle against their "enemy" that must be won at all costs and spurred on using the rightwing obsession with Christianity. Strange how every time there are investigations into elections we find out Republicans are the ones cheating, bending rules, and disenfranchising voters. At least you assholes have gone from lynchings to using legal measures with 2% plausible deniability. Still evil Republican bullshit, but moving in the right direction.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @01:25AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @01:25AM (#1206273)

            yes voting has become a rightwing crusade

            Fascinating.. Interesting choice indeed!

      • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:48PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:48PM (#1206887) Journal

        The minor problem being all of the "Democrat Run States" ALREADY have paper and it's all the red states that don't.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @03:25PM (4 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @03:25PM (#1206653) Journal

      The voting systems where I vote do use paper ballots that are human readable.

      Once you show your ID, and they verify that you are on the voting rolls, for this particular voting station, they stamp a ballot and hand it to you. You take it to a booth, fill it out using an ink pen. Then take the ballot to the machine. You personally get to drop your ballot in to the machine. You can watch the ballot pass through the scanner. The green light comes on if nothing wrong or jammed, and the ballot passes through the machine as you watch through plexiglass to see your ballot fall into a cardboard box below, and the number of votes counter on the machine increases by one.

      Now with this system, they get the efficiency of machines counting the votes. Yet manual recounts are possible. There are paper ballots that were hand marked by voters. Those can be recounted either by hand or by machine. Or by different machines. You could also "cut the deck" of ballots and scan half of them on another machine, and the other half on yet another machine and verify that the totals match. You could shuffle each half and re-re-count them again through the machine.

      You could take a random small sample from a shuffled stack of ballots, hand count them, then scan them, and verify that the machine counted correctly.

      I suspect SN readers could devise quite a few verification tests of the machine. Such as swapping machines between voting stations, and then recounting all the ballots at each station using machines from another station and verify that the counts still come out the same.

      What is wrong with using machines? Especially if you have hand marked ballots by voters, and the ability to do manual recounts, or machine recounts, and many types of cross checking?

      --
      If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 20 2021, @05:06PM (3 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 20 2021, @05:06PM (#1206685) Journal

        What is wrong with using machines?

        Some don't provide the paper. [publicsource.org] That is unacceptable. As long as the ballot you personally marked is available for the count, it's all good. But people have to demand it to make it happen. Contrary to what some wackos may say, it is not a right wing conspiracy to demand a human verifiable accurate count of paper ballots, certainly much less conspiratorial than
        Russiagate

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @06:18PM (2 children)

          by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @06:18PM (#1206706) Journal

          As long as the ballot you personally marked is available for the count, it's all good.

          We can completely agree on that. A paper ballot personally marked by the voter is a must have item.

          Machines are only to speed up the counting process.

          it is not a right wing conspiracy to demand a human verifiable accurate count of paper ballots

          Here is the irony.

          It has been pointed out on SN before, and I don't care to go dig it up, but the places that use paperless pure electronics voting machines are . . .

          TA DA !!!

          Red states!

          All of the information on what types of voting equipment is used in various locations can be publicly obtained.

          --
          If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 20 2021, @07:19PM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 20 2021, @07:19PM (#1206715) Journal

            With the feeble opposition, it hardly matters what color they are. Our democratic congress has the constitutional authority (Art. 1 Sec. 4) to set it straight, and kill the gerrymandering for the cherry on top, but is allowing the sabotage to continue

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @12:46AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @12:46AM (#1206774)

            People like to conveniently forget the connections between Diebold/Premier and Republicans. They also like to ignore the current connections between ES&S and Republicans. Which brings up an interesting observation: with all the noise Fox News, OANN, NewsMax, etc. were making about the election and pointing fingers at almost every election official or company regardless of how minor a role they actually played in the election, can you recall them ever mentioning ES&S? Doesn't it seem strange that the largest election company in the US wasn't mentioned even once?

            If I were more paranoid, I'd think this was done on purpose to expand ES&S's market share at the expense of everyone else. When it comes time to replace the old equipment a large number of individuals on the right are going to have bad opinions about those companies and officials that approve of them. There doesn't even need to be a big conspiracy about that, only friends helping friends and self-reinforcing talking points that got out of hand.

    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday December 20 2021, @08:06PM

      by Freeman (732) on Monday December 20 2021, @08:06PM (#1206723) Journal

      Definitely this. It is much harder to perpetrate mass fraud, the more people that have to be involved in said fraud. Electronic "voter fraud" could literally be a technical glitch.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @10:17PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @10:17PM (#1206500)

    Black box voting or Russiagate?

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @03:27PM (4 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday December 20 2021, @03:27PM (#1206654) Journal

      You don't think bamboo on the ballots is a weird conspiracy? Or voting machines tampered with by dead dictator tots? Or Italian satellites? No, none of that sounds like a wacko conspiracy to you -- because you heard it on FOX "News".

      --
      If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 20 2021, @05:11PM (2 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 20 2021, @05:11PM (#1206686) Journal

        because you heard it on FOX "News".

        :-) Sorry, you have mistaken me for somebody else.. I noticed that you put a put a lot of your own thoughts (opinion) into what I write down. Groupthink is powerful, eh?

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:41AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:41AM (#1206816)

          Maybe you should not post as AC if you don't want to be mistaken for someone else. Doesn't look like you were, but still you whine.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:51PM (#1206939)

            Maybe you should not post as AC

            :-) Yeah, right...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:17PM (#1207218)

        You don't think bamboo on the ballots is a weird conspiracy? Or voting machines tampered with by dead dictator tots? Or Italian satellites?

        If people want to believe in that stuff, that's their business, I Ignore it, don't have the time or space to fill my head with that junk, but electronic voting is compromised, you shouldn't doubt that. We don't need it. It is not a better mousetrap. It's a gimmick, a refrigerator for your igloo on the North Pole. It has absolutely has no advantage for anybody but the people who sell the machines like a travelling medicine show

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:27AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:27AM (#1206800)

      As far as conspiracy theories go, Russiagate had a lot going on for it.

      The only problem is that the Democratic Party's base is not motivated by conspiracy theories. On the other hand, the Republican Party's base demonstrably is.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:29PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:29PM (#1206926)

        It is not a conspiracy when it is fact. Whether Russia hacked voting machines to change votes, or if they only used media propaganda campaigns hardly matters. They worked hard to get that grifter in office and the conflicts of interest like the tower in Moscow were conveniently ignored.

        Sheeit son, just dumbo's public request for Russia to hack Clinton's email should have disqualified him entirely. Not that anyone cares to protect Clinton (we know her name us triggering and causes all sorts of propaganda primed outrage in Fox viewers) we just don't agree with allowing politicians to recruit foreign assets to help their political aspirations. You know, the sort of thing that Republicans would normally cry foul over, but when their "side" does it suddenly it umis ok for reasons. Ooh, exactly like rightwing opposition to abortion, it us immoral right up until they need one and their reasons are somehow always valid. Like, what the fuck?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 22 2021, @03:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 22 2021, @03:21AM (#1207013)

          Save it... "Russiagate" is just the democrats' refusal to acknowledge they lost for their own political machinations. And hacking voting machines is a real threat, propaganda is bullshit you can tune out. At worst the Russians bought ad time, paid for by Americans.. And furthermore, it's the DNC emails that are more interesting, not Clinton's. All our election issues are domestic. Russia is a whaddya call it? Strawman...

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