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Pandemic Could Be Solved Quickly If Politics Thrown Out: Dr. Ben Carson
“We’ve been having tunnel vision” dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, Dr. Ben Carson told EpochTV’s “American Thought Leaders” program.
“Let’s throw the politics out. We could solve this problem pretty quickly,” he stated in an interview that will premiere on Dec. 18 at 7 p.m. New York time.
“Let’s open this thing up to all the different mechanisms,” said Carson, a renowned neurosurgeon who was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom—the highest civilian award in the nation—in 2008 for his work. He retired in 2013 and ran for the presidency in 2016, before serving as the secretary of Housing and Urban Development during the Trump administration.
“Let’s look around the world at things that work. Let’s look at the fact that on the western coast of Africa, there’s almost no COVID. And let’s ask ourselves, why is that? And then you see, it’s because they take antimalarials, particularly hydroxychloroquine. Let’s study that. Let’s see what’s going on there.
“Let’s listen to these physician groups who’ve had incredible success with ivermectin. Let’s look at the results with monoclonal antibodies. Let’s look at all of these things. Let’s put them all in our armamentarium so that we don’t have a one-size-fits-all system.”
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) at one time had authorized hydroxychloroquine for treating certain COVID-19 patients but quickly revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) in June 2020, claiming no data showed its effectiveness.
The FDA hasn’t approved or issued an EUA for ivermectin to treat COVID-19, citing the same reasons.
Using hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin to treat COVID-19 patients has been highly controversial. Some studies show, and some doctors claim, that hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin can effectively treat COVID-19 patients. A vaccine confidence insight report (pdf) from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) labeled such claims as misinformation or disinformation.
“COVID is a virus. Viruses mutate. That’s what they do. And they will continue to mutate,” Carson said.
Carson pointed out that fortunately, most of the time, viruses become a little weaker with each mutation.
“We can admit that and deal with it, or we can take every little mutation and every little change and try to make it into a crisis so we can frighten people and control their lives more,” Carson said.
The latest variant has been named Omicron. During a White House COVID-19 Task Force briefing on Dec. 15, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said that she expected Omicron cases to increase in the coming weeks, urging people to take preventive measures such as being vaccinated and getting booster doses.
Carson said he has some concerns with how COVID-19 is being utilized to “manipulate and frighten people.”
“We should be using every tool available to us to fight the pandemic. There’s no question about that,” Carson said.
“But that means, you know, therapeutics, which had been poo-pooed. And I understand why. Because in order to get an EUA—an emergency use authorization—to pursue the vaccines, you can’t have anything that’s effective as an alternative. So, that’s a defect in our system, we need to get rid of that.
“I think a lot of people died unnecessarily because we had that attitude,” Carson added. He shared that when he contracted the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus and was severely ill, monoclonal antibodies saved his life. He said monoclonal antibodies weren’t really utilized the way they should have been early on.
The FDA issued its first EUA for monoclonal antibodies to treat COVID-19 patients in November 2020.
“There are many things that have been very effective that we have not pursued, including natural immunity,” Carson said.
“Well, why wouldn’t you collect that information? Why wouldn’t you want to know that? The only reason you wouldn’t do that is because you didn’t want to know the answer,” he said. “Because it didn’t fit very neatly into what you’re trying to do, which is get everybody to be vaccinated.”
That’s one of the reasons people are losing confidence in federal health agencies, he suggested.
Last month, the CDC said it had no record of naturally immune people transmitting the CCP virus.
“A lot of people who probably should be vaccinated are not doing it because they see these inconsistencies, these things that make absolutely no sense,” Carson said. “This demand that everybody get a vaccination, except if you’re coming across the southern border illegally, then it’s not all that important.”
Carson also opposes forcing children to be vaccinated.
“We have a situation where you have the government advocating that children be vaccinated, even though the risk for death for a child with COVID is 0.025 percent, essentially the same as it is for seasonal flu. You don’t see us doing all this every year for seasonal flu,” Carson stated.
“The risk of mortality for a healthy child is approaching zero, and yet we’re saying do this without knowing what the long-term risks are?” he said.
“And why would you subject an innocent child to a lifetime of unknown risk? It just makes absolutely no sense.
“We need to have faith in our government. We need to have faith in our health care systems. And by injecting politics into it, I think we have put ourselves behind the eight ball. It’s going to take a while to reestablish that trust,” he said.
“Why not learn how to look at what’s logical and what makes sense? And why not encourage discussion of those things, rather than everybody getting their respective corners and shooting hand grenades at each other?”
The way out is real leadership, he said.
“The only path is strong leadership. We don’t have that.”
I'll say what Dr. Carson shied away from saying: There's money to be made with the vax, and mandatory vaxxes. I mean, he said as much, but he wasn't blunt enough. The half million dead Americans blamed on Trump, are more properly blamed on Fauci and associates.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @02:30PM (102 children)
There's two obvious things to note here. First, Dr. Carson is ignoring the long-term risks of covid. I might add here that it may well make sense in the long term to vaccination children against the flu too for the same reasons. This is classic risk ignorance, being concerned about risks in category A, but completely blissful about risks in category B.
Second, we have more than just kids in this world. Complete vaccination of enough people, including kids, due to that herd immunity that Carson dismisses, would cut covid cases (at least the cases that hospitalize people) down to near nothing - depending how "leaky" that vaccine is.
I'm tired of hearing the same dumb stuff over and over. We're supposed to be so concerned about imaginary risks of vaccines, but not real risks of covid? Why?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @04:31PM (45 children)
DEAR AMERICAN PEOPLE, DEAR FRIENDS, for two years now, a global coup has been carried out all over the world, planned for some time by an elite group of conspirators enslaved to the interests of international high finance. This coup was made possible by an emergency pandemic that is based on the premise of a virus that has a mortality rate almost analogous to that of any other seasonal flu virus, on the delegitimization and prohibition of effective treatments, and on the distribution of an experimental gene serum which is obviously ineffective, and which also clearly carries with it the danger of serious and even lethal side effects. We all know how much the mainstream media has contributed to supporting the insane pandemic narrative, the interests that are at stake, and the goals of these groups of power: reducing the world population, making those who survive chronically ill, and imposing forms of control that violate the fundamental rights and natural liberties of citizens. And yet, two years after this grotesque farce started, which has claimed more victims than a war and destroyed the social fabric, national economies, and the very foundations of the rule of law, nothing has changed in the policies of Nations and their response to the so-called pandemic.
- Italian Archbishop Vigano
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:14PM (1 child)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Maria_Vigan%C3%B2#Conspiracy_theories_and_President_Donald_Trump [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:30PM
"...apocalyptic claims about a looming spiritual battle and a globalist conspiracy pursuing a one-world government," ... seems pretty much on schedule.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:40PM (42 children)
First, the mortality rate isn't "almost analogous", but more like an order of magnitude worse. Second, the "effective treatments" aren't that effective and/or prohibited. Third, the gene serum is effective, contrary to assertion. Finally, the real problem here is that this is a bad approach to dealing with emergencies, real or manufactured. Really, if you want the good guys to win, you need to present a better approach to such emergencies than willful disruption.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:43PM (2 children)
That's the problem with government/religion.
Sinners, all.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 20 2021, @04:39PM (1 child)
You only think it a problem if you ignore that redemption is free for the asking.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @05:57PM
Redemption, like freedom, is not free.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:50PM (38 children)
I've asked in discussions before this: Why haven't the poorest countries in Africa just all dropped dead due to COVID? Poor health in general, no vax, crowded cities - but anti-malarial drugs are in wide use. But, anti-malarials have been pooh-poohed by all the best brains that Wall Street can hire. The empirical data says that COVID doesn't like anti-malarials for some reason. But, again, those best brains simply ignore empirical data that wasn't paid for by Wall Street.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:12PM (2 children)
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:28PM (1 child)
Ahhhh, yes. I remember someone countering my question the first time with, "Well, dey's jus darkies, and dey can't even count!" But, if that were true, we might expect that ebola should have killed off all the darkies by now.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @11:27PM
I'm sorry but we won't bother to engage with the imaginary voices in your head. If, on the other hand, you want to engage with what the rest of us are actually saying, we might be willing to reciprocate.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dalek on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:32PM (6 children)
The population of most African countries is generally much younger than in Europe, the US, and Canada. We know that younger people are much less likely to get seriously ill from COVID. One theory proposed in South Africa is that Omicron really isn't any less deadly than previous variants, just that people aren't especially likely to become seriously ill after getting COVID or getting vaccinated, and there aren't many people in South Africa without any exposure to the spike protein. On the other hand, there is likely still a significant portion of the population in Europe, the US, and Canada that have neither been infected nor vaccinated. The result is that there are far more people susceptible to serious coronavirus disease in those regions than in most of Africa. The initial waves were less deadly because the population in Africa is generally young, and now there's a significant amount of immunity built up in nearly the entire population.
Now, I agree with Carson's statement that the pandemic should be mostly over in the US were it not for politics. The problem is that it's his side prolonging the pandemic. For a lot of right wingers, not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated seem to be two forms of political virtue signaling, showing one's support for Donald Trump to other right wingers. If everyone who could safely be vaccinated did so, we almost certainly wouldn't have nearly as many people hospitalized or critically ill with COVID. Omicron is transmissible enough and there enough people without immunity in places like Europe, the US, and Canada that we unfortunately might see a bigger wave of hospitalizations and critically ill patients than even last winter. If that happens, it would almost certainly be a very quick surge, but a potentially devastating one. Carson is right that this never needed to happen. But he's part of the problem by spreading misinformation.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @07:06PM (4 children)
So if younger people are less likely to be affected by the coof, why is *your* side forcing injections on kids?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @03:49AM (3 children)
Because you're an idiot. You can bank that answer and apply it to just about every question you ask.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @06:00PM (2 children)
And there's today... what passes for intellectual debate. We can't have nice things, anymore.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @07:47PM (1 child)
Be best fren.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @07:53PM
With frens like that...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @07:07PM
That's one theory, the other (with increasingly supportive evidence) is that Omicron rarely causes lower-respiratory disease. It's a cold. [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Sunday December 19 2021, @08:18PM (2 children)
Because dropping dead from COVID-19 isn't the worst thing [cdc.gov] that can happen to you. If a virus kills people *too* quickly, it won't get a chance to spread. It's best for its long-term viability if it can spread/incubate asymptomatically for as long as possible before (if ever) showing any symptoms. If the symptoms can't be correlated to the infection to the virus, even better for its long-term success.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @01:39PM
That is why Omicron evolved to be a natural vaccine. Everyone will who gets mild illness then be protected against future variants. This is how the pandemic could end.
Now, that isn't to say you should stop wearing a mask and getting vaccinated to prevent omicron infection. Infection is still leading to overrun hospitals and mass death.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @04:55PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome [wikipedia.org]
Blaming this on COVID as if it were in some way specific to it, is maybe a useful lie to scare the unwashed masses, but nevertheless, using it makes you a liar.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @02:58PM (22 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 20 2021, @03:38PM (21 children)
Citations needed. Screw it, I found my own - https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211208/COVID-19-disruptions-linked-to-increase-in-malaria-cases-and-deaths.aspx [news-medical.net]
Your claim doesn't stand. Even if distribution of anti-malarials are being disrupted, the disruption probably isn't uniform across all of malaria country. Even if you assume distribution is uniform, you've not demonstrated that the meds are ineffective against COVID.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/06/11/why-has-africa-suffered-fewer-covid-19-deaths-than-predicted/ [northeastern.edu]
Fact 1: Africa has the heaviest burden of malaria, in the world.
Fact 2: Africa distributes more anti-malarials than any place on earth, disruptions or not.
Fact 3: Africa has a surprisingly low infection rate as well as death rate from COVID.
Fact 4: Those correlations should be thoroughly investigated.
Do you have a problem with investigating correlations? If so, don't make any claims of being a scientist, or an engineer, doctor, or any other kind of STEM person. That's what science, engineering, and medical people do, they investigate correlations - among other things.
Read the article, they offer some ideas about that correlation. Among other things, they aren't counting every death as a COVID death. People in Africa are still dying of other diseases, and unrelated causes. That is, if a guy is killed by a lion, his corpse isn't swabbed, then attributed to COVID.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @12:18AM (19 children)
There goes runaway bring stupid. Opinions are not facts buddy, no matter how many times you pretend otherwise.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @01:06AM (18 children)
And there you go, being stupider than stupid. I have not stated any OPINION as a fact here. My OPINION is that people who claim that anti-malarials affect COVID are probably on to something. I have a very strong OPINION that the correlations that have been noted should be investigated. But, once again, those people who are invested in the vax narrative, and especially those people who are financially invested in the vax, want to shoot down such research. Soon, you'll be shooting down the idea of taking simple vitamins and minerals and other dietary supplements that tend to boost your immune system. Gotta rely on the vax, and trash everything else, right?
If something, almost anything, shows promise in combatting the disease, we should be researching it.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:16PM (17 children)
Runaway brings the stupid, opinion. One he shares with Ben Carson, who used to shill for Mannatech [esquire.com], hawking faux cancer cures. Yes, Runaway has his own (rather stupid) opinions, and he does his own "research", and if only people would listen to him, more could be dead of the pandemic.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:52PM (16 children)
Oh, how are you, ari? You've been so quiet, I was concerned that I may have caused you to have an apoplectic fit. You know, at your age, you probably should cut back on all the excitement in your life. I'm sure that signing in to SN to snipe at me puts a strain on your fragile system. Have you taken your meds today?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday December 21 2021, @09:23PM (15 children)
You poor, ignorant moron, Runaway! You left out the Oleander! And the colloidal silver! Not to mention the Chlorine dioxide that has become a communal drink for QAnon. So many "alternative" medicines to be independently researched, when you are an idiot! Zerohedge? What happened to your usual source, the Gateway Pundit? And "TheTruthAboutBums"? Not to mention Project Veritas and Touring Point USA? Grifters gonna grift!
(Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 21 2021, @10:07PM (14 children)
You should ask the nice nurse for a sedative, you're foaming at the mouth again.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Touché) by aristarchus on Wednesday December 22 2021, @10:30AM (13 children)
And you, my ignorant moron, could stop killing people with your spreading of misinformation about COVID-19. Karma is a bitch, man!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 22 2021, @03:43PM
I'm feeling fine. You, however, sound like you could use some... one-on-one counseling. Wear a bib.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @05:52PM (11 children)
Name one person who has died because they followed my advice. You just hate me so much that you want to attribute the whole pandemic to me. Do you ever listen to yourself?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:09PM (10 children)
You are a tool, Runaway, a useful idiot! You parrot talking points from your Ruskie masters, not even aware of the consequences of what you are doing. Ben Carson was a surgeon, good at separating the brains of conjoined twins, but then he went off the deep end, as so many African-American Republicans do. Just a short list: Allen West, E.W. Jackson, Larry Elder, Candace Qwens, Alan Keyes, Kanye West. Carson did not serve in a medical capacity under Trump. And his association with snake oil means that he, along with crazed Republican Runaway1956, is complicit in the deaths of 800,000 Americans.
I await the Dr. Seuss "Hate Runaway in a box" poster. But I only feel pity for your ignorance, and mental dysfunction.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:20PM
Nope. Tools and useful idiots almost always promote Marxism, in one form or another. The few leftover tools work for petty dictators in third world countries. Or, for the DNC in Washington.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:23PM (8 children)
I can't let that pass, you racist sumbitch. So long as dem darkies think in ways you want them to think, then they's "good darkies". As soon as they start thinking for themselves, they've gone "off the deep end" and should probably be put down, right? We wouldn't want the contagion to spread through the herd, would we?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday December 22 2021, @09:39PM (7 children)
Triggered much, you white trash racist scum? You know that black republicans that support Trump, like Diamond and Silk, are certifiably insane, a danger to themselves and others, much like yourself, ignorant moron! Maybe you should do another Murder Death Kill journal.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 22 2021, @10:17PM (6 children)
Physician, heal thyself.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday December 23 2021, @03:32AM (5 children)
Are you confusing me with Hippocrates? (Interesting trivia, "hippo" is Greek for "horse", and "Kratos" is "power", so Hippocrates means "horsepower"! Can't get full power out of your horse, if it is infested with worms.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 23 2021, @04:17AM (3 children)
No, dummy, I'm not confusing you with anyone. Put "Physician, heal thyself" into any search engine. Ignant moran.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 23 2021, @04:25AM
Well, to be fair, there's a lot of room for confusion to be seen between the dumber side of Alec Baldwin, and that kid. Not that there's a smarter side. Seekin' attention and shootin' from the hip.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday December 23 2021, @06:51AM (1 child)
No, you are just confused, Runaway! Happens a lot when you are not very well educated, and prey to so many right-wing propaganda machines! Try this:
The correct spelling is "ignorant moron". Try to get it right.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 23 2021, @08:45PM
And a-shootin' blanks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 23 2021, @04:20AM
The kid's a-settin' G**gl* afire.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 24 2021, @04:49PM
Fact 5: Correlation is not Causation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @03:06PM (1 child)
Also:
Fact is, there are more possibilities than just one. Which one is it? We don't know. Reality is it is probably a contribution from all of these reasons that combined together add up to their better outcomes, and to repeat the same elsewhere would require duplicating all the various conditions that contribute, not just one of them.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @11:54PM
South Africa is mostly subtropical, including lots of highlands. The southern coast is pretty much the first land since Antarctica. In high summer, sure, it's nice and toasty. In winter? Hope you have warm clothing. Some areas actually get semi-regular snow.
But thanks for playing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:15PM (48 children)
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009509 [plos.org]
Herd immunity has never been observed for this type of virus. You are expecting something unprecedented to happen. Why?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:27PM
So much is unprecedented. It's no wonder so many don't believe in history. If you don't know something, it's all faith-based. Maybe that's why schools don't bother teaching it. Gotta have faith in government. Gotta have faith in St. Fauci.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:33PM (46 children)
Then what is the mechanism by which colds go away? Because they do.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:34PM (3 children)
This is the winter of our incontinence.
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Sunday December 19 2021, @11:16PM (2 children)
If you insist on quothing the Bard, get it somewhat right!
Now is the winter of our discount tent. [bensbargains.net]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @04:36AM (1 child)
Oh fuck,,, Ari is about to break out the marshmallows.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @06:02PM
Hate to waste a good book burning.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:55PM (39 children)
Which cold "went away"? They all continue circulating because mucosal immunity does not last. And thats a good thing! If you had that many antibodies in your mucus you couldn't breath.
Of course the IM vaccines are injected into the muscle, so the mucosa is not even exposed. Thinking you can ger herd immunity from infection is denying all the science on the topic, but from vaccination its 1000x worse!
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg9857 [science.org]
Anyone who has mentioned herd immunity in the last two years should be disregarded as a credible source. It always had zero chance of occurring.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:14PM (37 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:22PM (36 children)
I'll repeat the question above: Which specific cold viruses have "gone away"? There are more than 200 different cold viruses, and I'm unaware of any that have been eradicated. As far as I know, the same cold viruses circulate, year after year, waxing and waning, always ready to take advantage of a compromised immune system.
On an individual basis, almost everyone defeats a cold in pretty short order, but no virus has been defeated so that no one gets sick from it again. It seems that, as a rule, once you defeat one virus, you're immune to that particular virus, for years to come, but there is always another cold virus waiting in the wings. Meanwhile, the cold viruses that you spread while defeating your last encounter are out there infecting other people.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @07:36PM (10 children)
Smallpox
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 19 2021, @07:51PM (9 children)
I hope that's sarcasm. If not, I'd dearly love for you to tell us how closely smallpox is related to any of the cold viruses.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @10:52PM (6 children)
We've never had a vaccine for the common cold because it changes so much. We could have gotten rid of covid with vaccinations and quarantines, but nooe you dumbfucks had to do your thing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @11:23PM (1 child)
Now you claim to be omniscient? Well, hello Little Godling!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @05:44PM
Bless you, my little turd.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @01:15AM (2 children)
Yeah, sure bro. The full vaccination rate in the bad ol' fashy USofA is around 9 times higher than the African continent [nature.com]. You're going to see variants from all over the globe. The bioweapon was released and now it's here to stay.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @12:24AM (1 child)
Now imagine if the US hadn't been split for power politics and led the world in how to deal with the pandemic. But that is too much for your puny brain and you'd rsther look for excuses why being selfish and dumb didn't help kill thousands or maybe millions of unnecessary deaths.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @07:37AM
It would never have been dealt with in the same way that you can't solve world hunger in a single year.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 20 2021, @04:51AM
In the future, it may well be possible to immunize (or derive protection from some more sophisticated system) to eradicate even those cold viruses. But it's not feasible at present.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @11:55PM (1 child)
It wasn't sarcasm, it was clearly cherry picking a specific point of yours to reply to. No, I'm not the GP, but I do have basic reading comprehension skills and can follow a line of reasoning.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday December 22 2021, @10:09AM
Runaway was not seriously asking a question, he is just ignorant about history, virology, geography, metaphysics, medicine, political theory, chemistry, firearms, physics, epidemiology, forensics, deontology, vaccines, and puppy teeth. So he doesn't know about the smallpox, or the cowpox, or the cholera, though he might be an asymptomatic carrier of Fox News talking points.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @07:41PM (23 children)
Every one of them.
How would you notice? I'll note that just with covid, the original strain has already been mostly displaced by the delta variant.
Point is that we aren't all continually sick from a cold. Means that it dies off for some reason. I bet herd immunity is that reason.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @08:02PM (3 children)
We are sick often enough that we carry antibodies. [nih.gov] Just don't mention all-cause mortality for ICU patients with common coronavirus infections. [nature.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 19 2021, @09:17PM (2 children)
Like I do with measles, which I've never caught?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @04:28AM (1 child)
Were you vaccinated? This branch of paramyxoviridae can have fatality rates towards 100%. If you're not vaccinated and you catch it, you are (statistically) dead. The herd immunity rate is over 90% vaccinated.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:49AM
Yes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @09:16PM
You can read the paper and become informed or not and keep being surprised by lack of herd immunity.
(Score: 1) by dalek on Sunday December 19 2021, @09:31PM (12 children)
I think what Runaway is getting at is that it's extremely unlikely that we can eradicate SARS-CoV-2 from circulating in humans. There are four other commonly circulating coronaviruses, all of which cause common colds. My understanding is that the most recent of those started infecting humans during the late 19th century. One theory is that the Russian Flu pandemic that began in 1889 was actually caused by the OC43 coronavirus. There were waves of infections for a few years and the symptoms were quite similar to COVID. Within a few years, the waves of infection diminished, but a portion of the population had lasting impacts from being infected. If that was the result of OC43, the waves of infection were quite possibly the result of new variants developing while humans and the virus were adapting to coexist. Even so, new strains of OC43 have emerged in recent decades but haven't caused more severe disease.
It seems unlikely that we'll be able to stop SARS-CoV-2 from circulating in the population. However, we can get to a point where enough people have sufficient immunity that the virus no longer causes massive waves of infection that can push hospitals to their capacity and beyond. Even if we could eradicate SARS-CoV-2 from the human population, there are other reservoirs of the virus such as felines. Once our immunity waned, it's very possible that SARS-CoV-2 could spread from one of the animal reservoirs back into humans. That said, vaccines certainly do increase the proportion of the human population that has some immunity and is unlikely to experience severe disease from being infected. It's not herd immunity, because the virus would still circulate. However, it would end the pandemic.
Even if we could eradicate SARS-CoV-2, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to do so. There are plenty of other coronaviruses circulating in other animals that could very well mutate to where they can and do infect humans. If that happened and the virus could spread well enough from person to person, we'd end up with another pandemic. I propose that our efforts would be better spent preparing for future pandemics instead of actually eradicating SARS-CoV-2.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 20 2021, @05:48AM (11 children)
How would you propose preparing for a future epidemic? How would you know those preparations would work? I don't consider it the most important part of covid efforts, but it does prepare us for worse things in ways that hypothetical preparation can't.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @04:42PM (10 children)
Prepare? Buy American products. Quit funding your enemy.
Encourage independent thought, hard work, family, compassion, simplicity, humility, conservation...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Monday December 20 2021, @06:22PM (9 children)
What enemy? Why should I buy "American" products when there are other products out there, just as good or better (in terms of my desired combination of quality, price, etc). For example, I haven't bought a US car in 40 years. They still don't meet my standards for quality and ease of repair.
Indeed. But that exists outside of the US too. And what's missed with this bit of jingoism is that there are almost 8 billion people who need that too. And they can get it by global trade, particularly with the US. The list of countries that has been so helped is huge. For example, Europe wasn't developed world in 1945. It was a huge battlezone with lots of broken pieces. Same for Japan and South Korea. Taiwan came a little later as the remnants of the Kuomintang gradually became a kind democracy. Then came the Eastern Bloc and parts of the former USSR. Now, we're seeing movement to more humane governments in China, Southeast Asia, and South America.
How much suffering are you willing to inflict worldwide for your selfish piece of cheese?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @07:48PM (8 children)
You know, I got that far, and then skipped down to the cheese (Moe... Larry).
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday December 20 2021, @11:48PM (7 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @02:18AM (4 children)
Yours was untenable, from the git-go.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 21 2021, @06:35AM (3 children)
This should be a wake up call to us, rather than a time to flee to isolationism. The countries that will fare best in the near future will be the ones that do globalism most effectively. Not the ones that surrender by pulling out of the global economy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @03:39PM (2 children)
Ahem... CCP. Get it?!?!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 21 2021, @04:34PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:03PM
Merry Winter Solstice.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @10:03PM (1 child)
'Tis the season for a Winter Solstice celebration, so I'll charitably expand on what's obvious to almost everyone else. The question was about preparing for epidemics. I answered. Then you changed the subject into isolationism, apparently looking for a fight. I'm not interested in chasing your goalposts.
I thought my original point was well made, though I suppose the elapses did give you the opportunity to send it into the weeds.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 22 2021, @01:57AM
Indeed. Because that was a ridiculous answer that had nothing to do with preparing for epidemics. Who wouldn't spoil for a fight under those circumstances?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:02PM (4 children)
WTF you are saying?
" The human coronaviruses HCoV-OC43, HCoV-HKU1, HCoV-229E, and HCoV-NL63 continually circulate in the human population in adults and children worldwide and produce the generally mild symptoms of the common cold.[87] The four mild coronaviruses have a seasonal incidence occurring in the winter months in temperate climates.[95][96] There is no preponderance in any season in tropical climates.[97]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus#Common_cold [wikipedia.org]
Get informed, or just stop lying. Either way will be better.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 21 2021, @05:48PM (3 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @06:03PM
100% correct and it's worth pointing out for the mid-wits in the mod-squad that current data shows Omicron is a primarily mucosal infection, hence, neutralizing anti-bodies will not prevent it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 21 2021, @08:52PM (1 child)
What part of "There is no preponderance in any season in tropical climates" is too complicated for you to understand?
Mistaking the effect of changing weather conditions for "herd immunity" is understandable, but NOT when you have a counterexample pointed out to you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 22 2021, @02:05AM
Should I note that didn't happen [soylentnews.org]?
Really, if we're going to make up stories here, I think it reasonable that we add something about my Fortune 500 backhoe business. And garage of fighter jets from the 20th Century.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @08:57PM
As far as Runway knows, so, not very far, then?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @08:04PM
We really should have concentrated more effort at the beginning to find those who cannot be successfully infected, and made efforts to recruit them for the higher hazard work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @10:05PM (1 child)
Sending the kid home with his mother works for me. If we make them wear full hazmat suits, we just might eliminate the common cold.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @11:19PM
We just might. Masking and social distancing may have driven certain influenza clades to extinction. More surveillance is necessary, but the initial signs are that one known to be less contagious but more serious is probably gone for good and a couple of others might be done for too.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @05:55PM (6 children)
Omicron evades antibodies produced in response to previous strains and vaccines. What we traditionally call herd immunity went out the window with delta, an R0 of 5.08 [nih.gov] and vaccines that are only 65% effective at preventing infection. [nih.gov] That's below the level we'd need for herd immunity.
The question for omicron is if the R0 is considerably higher or if the R value is simply due to reinfection and vaccine escape. [imperial.ac.uk] Past pandemics ended as a disease became endemic due to population immunity and antigenic drift. We may be about to see that. [cam.ac.uk]
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:10PM (5 children)
This is the antibody they used to check for virus: https://www.thermofisher.com/antibody/product/SARS-Coronavirus-Spike-Protein-Antibody-Polyclonal/PA1-41165 [thermofisher.com]
It is raised against SARS-1 but still recognized SARS-2 S2 region. Unfortunately this area is mutated in Omicron, so there will be lower affinity. So the apparent lower virus levels are due to an artifact.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @06:30PM (3 children)
If antibodies show lower affinity, would we not expect higher viral load?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @03:08AM (2 children)
This is about an antibody used to detect the virus, not protect against it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @04:14AM (1 child)
I understand that, however, your argument makes no sense. If your claim were true it would surely prejudice study results to the inverse?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 20 2021, @06:49AM
Doesn't make much sense to me, so why do you say that?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 19 2021, @09:08PM
And while I'm waiting for you to clarify, the Cambridge study and findings of the recent HKUMed study would appear to be mutually corroborative and although they're pre-prints, both fit the clinical characterization of Omicron as a mild variant. [med.hku.hk]