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Ivermectin fails another COVID trial as study links use to GOP politics
"Political affiliation should not be a factor in clinical treatment decisions."
The antiparasitic drug ivermectin failed to treat COVID-19 in yet another randomized clinical trial, but the drug remains popular amid the pandemic thanks to Republican politics. That's the takeaway from two separate studies published Friday in JAMA Internal Medicine.
Together, the studies raise yet more concerns for the use of ivermectin against the pandemic virus—as well as the reasons behind its use, which appear politically motivated.
"Political affiliation should not be a factor in clinical treatment decisions," the Harvard researchers behind one of the studies concluded. "Our findings raise concerns for public trust in a non-partisan health care system."
As I've said many mini times, it's all about politics. Not about medicine, science or any actual concern for helping anyone except politicians.
In two years time more Americans have died of covid-19 than have died in some major wars. More than 3x WWII deaths (291,557 vs 935K; source google). Or 1 in every 351 Americans dead and getting worse daily. (935 K / 329.5 Million US pop.).
But let's just put our fingers in our ears, close our eyes, and keep saying everything can just go back to normal by waving our Fox News magic wand. (even though right now they are busy being Putin's mouthpiece.)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @02:11AM (5 children)
Your journal appears to be another casualty of the front page not properly updating.
The current political situation is just bizarre. Trump takes credit for the vaccines because of Operation Warp Speed, says he's been fully vaccinated and boosted, and correctly says that the vaccines are very safe and effective. Trump's biggest supporters are very hostile to the vaccines and even boo him when he encourages people to get vaccinated. Normally Trump would take credit for the vaccines because they're quite possibly the biggest success of his presidency. But that's very muted because his biggest supporters are hostile toward the vaccines.
But that's not the only bizarre situation right now. Normally, Republicans would be uniformly calling for strong action against Russia for beginning to invade Ukraine. They would point to the 2012 presidential campaign when Obama mocked Romney for saying that Russia was the biggest geopolitical adversary for the US. Republicans would say that Romney was right, Obama and Biden were hopelessly out of touch, and blame the foreign policy of the Obama and Biden administrations for the current situation. They would call for strong and decisive action against Russia and say that Democratic administrations had been negligent in this respect. In 2012, Romney was criticizing Obama for being soft with Russia. In a normal political environment, Republicans would take a victory lap, say that Romney was right, and insist on a show of force with sanctions and repositioning military assets. But that's not what's happening, and Republicans can't even agree whether we should take action against Russia at all.
It's just how bizarre American politics are right now. In the early days of the pandemic, it was actually the right who believed the "novel coronavirus" was a serious threat before it was a big deal in the US. A lot of right wingers on social media back in January and February 2020 were sounding the alarm on the virus, and they were correct. Instead of standing by that position, they've abandoned it in favor of quackery and excessively downplaying the seriousness of the virus. I just don't get it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @04:53AM
It depended on who they learned about the virus from. Mister Metokur fans were treating it as a full blown happening very early on, and it was entertaining. Republican political hacks wanted to downplay the severity to protect Trump ahead of the election. You better believe that Democrats are calculating how Biden's response to Russian invasion will play in the midterms.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @07:42PM (2 children)
You're far far more intelligent, insightful, and rational compared to the average USAian. Sadly, people have the power to vote no matter how ignorant they are, no matter how brainwashed they are due to innate herding instincts (following the crowd, be part of a larger group), due to selective news reporting, due to the proliferation of political opinion spewers rather than factual reporting.
In USA's history there have been waves of immigrants who for many reasons have remained cohesive. I know of enclaves where native languages are not only still spoken and written, but many of the people, generations of naturally born USA citizens, still barely know English.
Again, much of what you think you "know" comes from news media, right? It's not like you're able to be everywhere in the world and know first-hand the facts of the situation. I have known, well, people who were part of a major news event. I've gotten info directly from them, and they warned me that what you hear and read in the "news" is crap. It's based on profit, and they profit from sensationalism, hype, bias, creative story "spin", etc.
I'm sad for DannyB and others like him who are very intelligent, sensitive, insightful, but badly deluded by and obsessed with "news" media.
Much more to say but no time...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @08:24PM (1 child)
Could you show a few of these on a map? The only example I can think of are the Amish, although they do know how to speak English. They just really prefer not to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @10:10PM
I wasn't thinking of the Amish, but they're a great example, thanks. I was in a grocery store in Amish area, with a friend who speaks, reads, and writes many languages, particularly German. I overheard some Amish women in the next isle speaking in Amish and tried to get my friend to listen in to see what she thought of the language. The Amish women switched to English. Not sure if they did it because of my friend and I, or if some other English were near them.
Same day with same friend we came across a small strip mall (shopping center) and one of the stores had Cyrillic name and writing. We went in because said friend is fluent in Russian (reading and writing too) and it turned out to be a small Ukrainian enclave in the area, which was somewhat north of Lancaster, PA. Store clerk and worker spoke no English.
Long backstory but strong connections with a (now retired) professor who does hydrogeology work in many areas (and countries). He gets to know the local geography, demographics, etc., and one day was telling me about specifically Irish, Polish, Ukrainian, Lithuanian, Russian, Hungarian, and other enclaves throughout Northern Pennsylvania. Many of them "came over" to work in coal and other mines in the 1800s and early 1900s, often to get away from poverty, Nazis (the real kind) and other oppressions, and for many aforementioned reasons, kept their language as well as other cultural norms: food, music, clothing, etc.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @03:53AM
The quasi-religious system that has elevated Trump as its messiah has become bigger than even him. One of the doctrines it managed to accumulate over the past two years was anti-vaccination. Trump himself seems to be trying to cancel this doctrine that is killing his worshippers to no avail. Even if he went full out on national television telling everyone in no uncertain terms to get vaccinated like he had, it is quite likely that his cultists will just rationalise it away as another part of his convoluted 5D chess strategy against the "deep state", "read between the lines" and still not get vaccinated. This is what you get when you actively cultivate irrationality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @03:37PM (8 children)
The drug that has only ever been used by horsies.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @04:26PM (4 children)
That's just not true.
Besides wide-ranging veterinary uses, it is commonly available for, and used by humans with parasitic infections. You can get it right now (logistics depending) for getting rid of worms in kids who put stupid things in their mouths.
It's a human medicine, and has been for a long time, including recognition as an essential medicine by the WHO. The horse-dewormer crap is a shibboleth, not truth.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday February 23 2022, @04:43PM (1 child)
Using a dewormer drug for covid is also a shibboleth, not truth. TFA is one more study proving this.
Now in Judges 12 versus 4 through 6, would you say "shibboleth" or "sibboleth" ?
The Hebrew letter Sin/Shin [wikipedia.org] ש can be pronounced either way. (Like our letter G, or our letter C have dual pronunciations which are obvious from context)
The different pronunciation in the Judges 12 story was due to a dialectic difference. (Like Southern Drawl Y'all) Dialect differences in language are always due to geography. Again like the story in Judges 12.
If they cannot pronuncify the word very correctfully then they are killed at the border rather than merely denying them entry. The way it should be done.
If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:33PM
We're marching, marching to shibboleth, with the eagle and the sword... [youtu.be]
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:07PM
It is also effective at getting rid of Republicans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @07:51PM
Thank you for one of the truly most insightful and informative posts ever anywhere. I had never heard of a shibboleth, and that word and its meaning sheds very strong light on many things in the world. Who knew the ancients had so much wisdom and insight (well, I and many others do and seek such knowledge and wisdom.) Thank you again.
BTW, shibboleth sounds like something Judge Judy would say (and maybe has, I rarely watch TV).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @04:42PM (1 child)
Spotted the juvenile big city easterner. "horsies"? You expect that from preschool children.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @10:34AM
Yes, of coursies. It's coursies for horsies, and de-wormer, too. Everybody knows this.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:20PM
Conservatives have been force feeding it to prisoners for a while now! [npr.org]
Nothing says freedom like forcibly testing drugs on our slaves!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 23 2022, @04:46PM (11 children)
Is it alright if I continue to take vitamins and minerals, along with other dietary supplements?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:14PM (2 children)
That's disingenuous. Nobody is telling you not to take your multivitamin. Although vitamin D and zinc have health benefits, they don't provide anything remotely close to the protection that you get from being vaccinated. Ivermectin is used sometimes to treat specific conditions in humans. Mostly, it's an anti-parasitic drug but can be used to treat certain other conditions like rosacea. If you're taking ivermectin to treat a parasitic infection, you should continue to take it as prescribed. Ivermectin can cause some serious side effects, and that's particularly concerning when people are taking it for off-label use to treat COVID. Many studies show it's not effective at treating COVID. Again, the best thing you can do to avoid becoming ill with COVID is to get vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines. But you knew that already.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:56PM (1 child)
I've been taking ivermectin since January of 2020, but it hasn't eliminated any of the parasitic progressives around me.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @08:27PM
World class tragedy, there, taking the antiparasitic drug ivermectin, only to realize that YOU are the parasite! (Explains why it does not affect those around you, your "hosts", as it were.)
One of those pics: When you buy ivermectin with your disability payments, . . .
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:16PM (6 children)
Just don't lie to people that your fiber supplement cures COVID and we're good.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:27PM (4 children)
Then why are all of you wearing your fiber supplement on your faces?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:41PM (2 children)
Because you're a nazi and we don't want your facial recognition software adding us to the database of humans you want to murder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @05:54PM (1 child)
Stop lying. You're not human, so you can't be murdered.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 26 2022, @11:33PM
Intriguing.
Republicans don't want to be called fascists ir nazis, and they claim everyone else is out to persecute them, but then you go around spreading lies and instigating political terrorism. Good thing you proved the point? Go move to Russia, assuming you don't already live there!
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @06:27AM
No wonder you think masks don't work. You aren't supposed to eat them!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday February 23 2022, @08:24PM
I think that is asking a bit much.
If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23 2022, @11:29PM
Can't hurt, but you will still be a hateful, scared, racist and misogynist asshole. So maybe you should stop.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @05:43AM (14 children)
Worked pretty good for me when I had delta. Was in the situation where three of us housemates had delta, me being in the worst physical condition (overweight, other health issues). My doctor prescribed ivermectin so I took it. Delta was a four day illness for me and a three week illness for my housemates. Anecdotal but thats good enough for me.
Ivermectin works not because it is an antiparasitic but because it is a protease inhibitor. So either Pfizer's new drug works, and Remdesivir were/are effective, and Ivermectin is as well. Or none of them work and protease inhibitors are ineffective. According to the WHO IVM is one of the most potent known protease inhibitors, more than remdesivir and more than Pfizer.
Oh my bad
Orange man bad therefore ivermectin bad
Three hail Marys and four our fathers
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @06:51AM
Ivermectin is barely comparable to protease inhibitors and nucleoside analogues actually designed to work as antivirals. They are designed to interfere with specific molecules used for viral reproduction, while Ivermectin interferes with a number of processes in humans and has minor effects, at best, as a result. For someone who seems to recommend people do their own research, yourself may want to start with figuring out the difference between protease inhibitors and nucleoside-analogue prodrugs along with figuring out which drug you mentioned is which. Maybe then you can figure out why you are currently in "not even wrong" territory.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday February 24 2022, @04:01PM (9 children)
As long as you took a doctor prescribed dosage you should not have any ill effects. If you had a parasitic infection it was beneficial to you but ivermectin did absolutely nothing for your COVID-19 infection.
Ivermectin did have an effect on the SARS-COV-2 virus in vitro. However, the amount needed for that effect was toxic to humans. Multiple studies have shown that ivermectin is ineffective to treat a COVID-19 infection.
COVID-19 affects different people differently. Some people show mild or no symptoms. Some get sick enough to be hospitalized or even die. Overweight and health conditions aside, you likely have the good fortune to be one of those who aren't as affected as others.
Citation?
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday February 24 2022, @04:16PM (2 children)
Do you believe this will be more convincing than what Fox News says?
Do you actually expect a citation? From a credible source?
If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday February 24 2022, @06:56PM (1 child)
If I can convince even one person away from this ivermectin nonsense it will have been worth it.
A link to the WHO document that supports their claim would be perfect. I don't expect it, considering the rest of their post.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday February 24 2022, @08:18PM
I wish you success, sir.
If a minstrel has musical instruments attached to his bicycle, can it be called a minstrel cycle?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @07:56PM (4 children)
And yet .... and yet .... apparently ivermectin has been working for the Japanese.
So let us ask ourselves: what are they doing differently from the protocol followed in this test?
The numbers from Africa are pretty nontrivial as well. What are the africans doing differently from the protocol followed in this test?
See, that's the key question: not just one study, but how experiences on the ground are anomalous with respect to the study, so that we can identify what does matter, and why. It's way too early for a "the science is settled" argument.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 24 2022, @09:57PM (1 child)
We have here a classic case of the moderation saying more about the moderator than the post.
A simple, straightforward observation: this thing seems inconsistent with those things. We have more questions than we have answers. What is different? Why aren't we getting what we expect?
Modded troll.
When asking the questions that a conscientious scientist should be asking is considered to be trolling, then you know that the moderation is political, not thoughtful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @02:09AM
Outright lies deserve at least a troll mod. Perhaps a -10 Spam mod, if you post this again. We have had quite enough of your anti-scientific trolling!
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday February 24 2022, @10:40PM
That is why ALL factors need to be looked at. Is it ivermectin that is helping the Japanese and Africans, or is it some other factor? We can't say that ivermectin is the answer before we honestly look at everything.
So far, I haven't seen any proof that shows ivermectin to be directly helping with COVID-19. I've seen a lot of evidence that shows that it doesn't. It would have a positive effect on an individual who has a parasitic worm infection by removing that factor from weakening them so they can fight off COVID-19 better, but not beyond that.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @12:12AM
A little strange to claim it has been working in Japan when the PMDA hasn't approved it for use against COVID https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html [pmda.go.jp]
If you obviously made that one up or continue to fall for blatant misinformation, not to hard to determine why you are a troll.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @12:59AM
How about a counter citation? The WHO recommends against using Ivermectin to treat Covid-19. [who.int] If they really thought it was "one of the most potent" protease inhibitors, at worst you'd think they'd be neutral.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @11:50PM
>Anecdotal but thats good enough for me.
Really? Then don't expect anyone rational to believe anything you have to say on public health policy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 26 2022, @12:41AM
Not a single member of my family has had a positive result while within 10 feet of my AntiCOVID Rocks™ (patent pending). I threw an ACR™ on my high-risk neighbors' roof and they haven't had one either. A man in a lab coat says that he has had great results with all of his patients and so have others in places as diverse as Kenya and Australia and the Dominican Republic. Anecdotal but that's good enough for me and our millions* of satisfied** customers***. The original AntiCovid Rocks™. Get yours today.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 29 2022, @01:48PM
Apparently the malaysian study's details look different from the headline:
https://dailyfriend.co.za/2022/03/27/the-malaysian-study-reveals-that-ivermectin-works-research-professor/ [dailyfriend.co.za]
The author's credentials: Professor Colleen Aldous is a Health Care Scientist at UKZN’s College of Health Sciences, where she runs the Doctoral Academy. She is a member of the Academy of Science of South Africa. She has a PHD and has published over 140 peer-reviewed articles in rated journals.
So, probably not a Fox News viewer.