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One of the more peculiar stances is an ad hominem where the news media of most of the developed world is partially or completely disregarded. Here's an example:
[Pav:] You don't seem to want to realise no mainstream source will ever give you a reason to believe anything that would make you less willing to pay taxes to defence companies. Perhaps you own some shares, or feel you benefit in some other way? I suppose it IS within the realm of possibility, though only by cosmic accident. It IS strangely fascinating and amusing talking to someone who is a true believer in the broken window fallacy (probably in the form of post WWII parables).
If you look at Pav's other postings on this, it's a remarkable dysfunctional chain of this crap. Even when he cites links, not a one supports his claims. For example:
[Pav:] Right.
This post contains Pav's defective arguments in a nutshell. It's just a story about the Ukrainian Prime Minister whining about his allies' statements with counterwhining from sources associated with the allies. What we actually had been speaking about at that point in the thread was violence, psychopaths, and corrupt oligarchs, none of which found their way into Pav's source.
Here's another example. MSNBC gets photobombed (they showed uncritically neo-nazi symbols on the uniforms of the soldiers involved in the video) by the Azov Battallion, which a genuine neo-nazi military unit in the Ukrainian military. So what? This is far from the first time covert product placement has been a thing in military news.
Another example is a blogger link from this post. It's just a few pages of pulling stuff out of the author's ass confidently. For example:
Ukraine’s President Zelensky told visiting US Senators in early June that the country’s military defense against Russia and the completion of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline are inextricably intertwined.
Once the project is completed, Ukraine will be deprived of the funds required to fund defense spending and defend Europe’s eastern border.
“Nord Stream 2 will cut Ukraine off from gas supplies, which will cost us at least USD 3 billion per year.”
Zelensky, always the joker, wants Russia to pay $3 billion per year so he personally can defend Europe from Russia who is paying him.
Notice how the author smoothly transitions from a fact - that Zelensky stated that closing a particular pipeline would cost the Ukraine a lot of money - to the unsubstantiated claim that Zelensky then wants Russia to pay for it. This is then further logically mangled into the idea that it somehow explains the Ukraine-Russian friction we're seeing now.
Zelensky’s Ukraine is shuffling Europe, NATO, and the US closer and closer to the line where one mistake in diplomacy, one stupid move by any of Ukraine’s infamous Neanderthal nationalist volunteers, and bang!
Let us further note that such infamy is only on the Russian supporters side. Somehow everyone else has come to grips with the reality that there's a small number of fascists/neo-nazis in the Ukraine military. My favorite quote of this batch:
In response to this, Ukraine mobilized over ½ its army or over 170,000 troops to the frontline with all the heavy weapons at its disposal accompanying them.
This force was a supposed counter to the Russian invasion army, which again, was just over the border.
In reality, the Russian army staged planned war games near the city of Yelnya, 160 miles (257 kilometers) from the Ukrainian border. You read that right, the Russian army was160 miles away from the Ukrainian border even though every major western publication made it sound like they were already in Kiev.
As I noted at the time, now those "war games" are inside the borders of the Ukraine. Looks like the Ukraine was right on that one!
While I didn't say it at the time, if the author is so horribly wrong about the "war games" and the infamy of Ukrainian troops what else is he horribly wrong about? This isn't the alternate media source I'm looking for.
Then there's the king of one liner putdowns:
[fustakrakich:] "Your" take is just mass media propaganda. Nobody wants war but the US
And yet we see Russia making those aggressive moves towards war. It also furthers the propaganda narrative that this is merely a showdown between Russia and US with Ukraine interests being completely irrelevant.
Also that Runaway journal was about some academic blaming the US or possibly the Western world for the conflict. At one point Runaway claimed:
[Runaway1956:] You didn't listen to the man, did ya? The "west" engineered that coup. Mearsheimer doesn't say so, but I'm aware that the Koch brothers were prime movers in the coup. We quite literally backed fascists and neo-Nazis in the coup.
In other words, there was no support for Runaway's assertion there from his source. In fact, I've googled this subject a bit and never found Runaway linking to a source for the Koch brothers accusation - though if he had, I would have stated that it shows good taste in revolutions on their part.
Anyway, I think this illustrates some of the weirder failures of the pro-Russian side in this conflict. Namely, obsessing over sources of evidence rather than the evidence itself. But given how unflattering that evidence is, maybe this is the best they can do?
All I can say is that it's probably a lot safer to complain about media bias than to defend Putin only to have him stab you in the back a few weeks later. But it begs the question: why is imaginary CIA/MIC involvement enough to completely torpedo a media source, but not being horribly wrong and/or irrelevant?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 02 2022, @03:18AM (21 children)
Yeah, a lot has changed in the last 6 days. Belarus is most definitely part of the invasion now. I can't/won't retract what I said above, but now Belarus figures into everything.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 02 2022, @04:12AM (7 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 02 2022, @04:22AM (6 children)
There will never be any walking back on the other side, will there? You still think the Azov Battalion never did anything to provoke Russia, or to provoke Russians.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 02 2022, @03:34PM (5 children)
Indeed. By your own words. If there was any actual provocation, you would have mentioned that instead of this pathetic whining about nazis. You can barely find nazis in the Ukraine, much less find a legitimate provocation.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 02 2022, @03:39PM (4 children)
You've dismissed the battalion, you've dismissed it's part in your precious Maidan, you claim it has no influence on Ukraine politics, and more.
You can excuse and dismiss anything and everything, so long as it supports your "side".
Once again, I invite you to watch Mearsheimer's presentation, which more or less predicts the current situation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 [youtube.com]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 02 2022, @03:52PM (3 children)
Indeed. How big is it, Runaway?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 02 2022, @04:33PM (2 children)
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Azov_Battalion [fandom.com]
https://jewishunpacked.com/the-azov-movement-lets-talk-about-ukraines-nazi-problem/ [jewishunpacked.com]
Not that I approve of anything Facebook, but:
Oddly - Facebook makes an about-face on the Azov movement last week:
If we were to ask a Ukrainian, we would probably be told that Ukies aren't prejudiced, of course.
https://vnexplorer.net/?#indian-and-african-students-fleeing-ukraine-say-they-face-racism-at-border-ec20225326967.html [vnexplorer.net]
Can we stop pretending that Ukrainians are innocents, who have done nothing to provoke the situation? 2% of the vote doesn't amount to much, but it's the Azov battallion that has been sent into Donbass for the past 8 years, to keep the shit stirred. Government doesn't want to openly associate with the Azov, but government is happy to use them to suppress people that government doesn't like.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 02 2022, @04:40PM
What provocation? You listed nothing that was a provocation. Try again.
There is no pretending here. The Ukrainians really are the innocent party here who have not done anything to provoke the situation.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 02 2022, @04:42PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 03 2022, @09:47PM (12 children)
Putin obviously calculated feeble-minded Joe correctly. But he apparently didn't realize that everyone else also knows that Joe is a useless figurehead, and everyone else isn't simply going to cave, just because this country is ineffectual right now. Regardless of the hearts and souls of the Iranian people.
I wonder if Xi is slowing his cakewalk through Taiwan.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday March 03 2022, @09:54PM (11 children)
To be fair, no one could have predicted Germany's response to this shitshow. They've done little more at this point than hand-wringing and complaining, but they've done it more forcefully than anyone might have imagined.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 03 2022, @10:22PM (10 children)
Random response is better than nothing. I truly didn't expect megacorps to go after Putin like they did Trump. It shows how close they are to China. It would be so nice if this country weren't financing Putin with oil purchases. Strange bedfellows, all.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @04:08AM
Ever consider that megacorps aren't close to any of these leaders? The kind of toady that wants to get bossed around by these authoritarian leaders doesn't run successful megacorps.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 04 2022, @04:34AM (8 children)
- These Are All The Companies That Have Cut Ties With Russia [zerohedge.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @04:39PM (7 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 04 2022, @05:58PM (6 children)
But mega-abusers like Apple — who live and breathe Yuan — wouldn't punish their partner in crime. The rapacious, bestial megacorps are the message; the pseudonymous-Durden is just another messenger.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @06:17PM (5 children)
"Sure, Russia is being really evil right now, but whatabout Apple?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 04 2022, @07:38PM (4 children)
The day the last real American-based business is shuttered, and all those proud American factory towns are left for the next generation of American Pickers to dig through the deserted and forgotten remains of our heritage for rusty gold. Apple's absolutely nothin' unique in this regard... it's just so easy with this example for the common [ex-]consumer to see how they're all doin' it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @07:41PM (3 children)
I bet we'll ignore this bullshit long before we get to that point. I notice, for a glaring example, that no one has actually stated what Apple supposedly did wrong. They're just a mean ol' megacorp that deals with Yuan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 04 2022, @07:43PM (2 children)
Supposedly? See my previous post.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 04 2022, @07:52PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 04 2022, @10:41PM
Sigh. We'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.