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posted by NCommander on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the changing-of-the-guard dept.

As many of you have already read, John Barrabas resigned as head of SoylentNews, and I've taken over in his place. Many people who are not involved in Staff were likely blindsided on this, and the community itself deserves to have an understanding of the reasons and events leading up to this. This post exists to set the record straight.

I would like to make it clear, especially in hindsight, that the events leading up to this were not pretty, and that no one involved came out smelling like roses. Mistakes were made all around, tempers were lost, and to be frank, at times, I've conducted myself in a way that was not professional.

In the end, the changeover was amicable, and John and I are still on speaking terms with each other. This isn't intended as a bashfest, but rather as explanation to the community (along with those staff who were not directly involved) of why and how this change came about.

NCommander Adds: Staff logs and copies of the email have been posted to my journal. Links included below.

To understand how we got here, we need to go all the way back to the beginning of the foundation of this site, and the events that led up to it. SoylentNews was created as a direct result of Slashdot's responses to their new layout. Many of us from that site had felt that this was the proverbial 'last straw', and that it was time to start again. John organized the initial project (then called AltSlashdot), and created a channel on Freenode to find other like minded people to help drive this goal. I got involved from one of the many posts made in the Slashdot discussion thread which in turn got me on IRC, and involved with the initial project.

At this point, several people had already been experimenting with the last public release of Slashcode, which was hosted in a semi-broken git repository on SourceForge. A couple of independent efforts had managed to get a slightly working Slashcode setup working. However, these instances were broken to the point that we got a bunch of jumbled HTML, and nothing resembling how we did during the private alpha. I offered to provide my knowledge and expertise in trying to get this mess working, while others looked at the possibility of a clean rewrite. In this I had the advantage of knowing where potential problems lay from a previous attempt at running Slash, and my experience at other Slashcode sites, such as Macslash.

After many hours of hacking, I was able get "install-slashcode" to run through with no errors, and bend the theming engine into something resembling a functioning pile of perl. The initial screenshot of Slash that was posted to the wiki was from this very early dev instance. However, the system we were on was a relatively dated instance of CentOS 5. Slash has somewhat unique running requirements, and is something of a four-letter-word to actually get started, let alone working.

Once it became clear that we could get Slash working, our attention turned towards figuring out what our production environment would look like. John began to solicit names for the site, and SoylentNews was picked out of those submissions. In hindsight, this was where we began to run into problems.

Originally, the plan was to be hosted on Bluehost (since that's where the wiki was), and work was done in parallel to try and get Slash up and running while myself and others would try and continue to bend slash to our wills. It became immediately clear that BlueHost wouldn't meet our needs (the initial attempt at installation hosed the VPS to the point it required re-imaging). Several other VPSes were tried (at once) and were unsatisfactory. This is in part why our initial bringup costs were so high.

Around this time, our dev system went and vanished on us, and its owner was unreachable. At this point, I was pretty frustrated with the state of things, so I set out to solve the problem. I had been a Linode customer for sometime at this point, and I knew for it fact it could meet Slash's demands. Without consulting anyone, I broke out my credit card, purchased two Linode 2048s, imaged them with Ubuntu 12.04, and proceeded to build Slashcode's dependencies, configuring them for Slash's particular needs. Furthermore, I was determined that to the extent possible, we would run on modern software.

My choice of Ubuntu for an operating system wasn't a matter of favoritism, but of practicality. I am an active Ubuntu Core Developer, and I knew the fundamentals of the system well enough to make sure we could setup Slash, and not break it by routine updates to the system. With these steps, the bring-up plan was moved from an unorganized bunch of people, and into a dictatorship. While this was not my preference, it was what was necessary to get us out the door.

As we got Slash closer-and-closer to usable, I started assigning tasks, and we got things done. We began to open the pre-launch site to more and more people, and an informal goal was to launch by the end of the Slashcott. An interim moderation algorithm was written, the missing parts of the theme were either recovered from CVS, or rewritten from scratch. Login and account creation was repaired, memcache support was fixed, and I located the last remaining problems with varnish and got that fully operational. We worked well as a team, and on February 16th, we opened our doors to the public.

What I didn't know at the time was that my take charge attitude had ruffled some feathers internally. Furthermore, I had made some decisions on how our development site should work, and that further annoyed people. After launch, John and I had a long one-on-one talk on how he saw things, and that he had gotten some complaints on my conduct. I will readily admit that I am not an experienced manager, nor do I have any formal management training, and conveyed that to John at the time. In the end, I stepped to the side, and John became the formal head of the site, while I continued to head-up dev. Furthermore, the stress and time put during golive left me very close to burn out. With the site up and running, I authored our end of day one post, and proceeded to rest for a week.

Under John, the staff was organized into various teams who in turn were managed by "Overlords," and the staff was loosely organized into this. Quoting from the wiki:

We're have overlords that manage various features. An overlord is responsible for granting access - it's intended to be a no work position, so that it can be held for long periods without requiring much time.

So for example, Applesmasher is the overlord of forums. He grants access to people and recovers access when people leave, but he doesn't have to do any work himself (although he can if he wants). He ensures that the people with access are reliable.

If you need a forum for your group, ask the overlord of forums. If you want a set of wiki pages, ask the overlord of the wiki, and so on.

The current overlords originally agreed to hold the position until Mar 1, that date has already passed. Going forward we can choose overlords via some formal process. (And the current overlords might ask to continue.)

John didn't wish to micro-manage, and felt that everything should be run by consensus. Decisions would be made by the group, and only by the group, but the saying goes, "Ask ten engineers for an opinion, get ten opinions." It quickly became apparent that we couldn't function as a cohesive unit. An Overlord had no authority to actually settle things in case of disagreement, and we had no way of resolving inter-team disputes. I'm not sure who coined it originally, but the term "management silos" quickly became common in describing the problem.

This was further compounded by an inability to communicate efficiently. We had no staff-wide mailing lists, nor a formal list of who was even on Staff (one of the things we're trying to determine post-handover). The only reason we even have staff email addresses is due to mrcoolbp collecting them all independently. mattie_p was made a "manager of everything" in an attempt to try and solve our communication issues, but even he had no authority to actually do anything, and had to defer to John on any matter of import. Staff morale was quickly sinking. In addition, we had far too many disparate venues of communication with little or no integration between them. Besides IRC, we had forums, the wiki, this site, a journal or two, and probably other ways that were setup in an attempt to address this issue, and some of us were only on one of all those methods.

Despite all of this, some teams were able to more or less run. As the Overlord of dev, I was able to build a group of good and active contributors, and managed to build the current dev VM which is architecturally similar to the production boxes. It should be noted that during bringup (as a factual error pointed out to me during drafting of this post), we were working on a CentOS based VM whose host committed suicide from load.

The editorial team was similarly able to run under these constraints, but only just barely. No one was happy with it. It was for instance, impossible to define a general "style and formatting" guideline, which is why the formatting of stories have been somewhat inconsistent.

Finally, many on the staff (myself included) felt conflicted on how some decisions were being made. For instance, John had us setup our own IRCd instead of remaining on Freenode, and to date, we've yet to have a public referendum on what the site name should be, as had been promised prior to launch. We launched under the premise that we (the staff) need to be a part of a community, and decisions impacting everyone needs to be discussed with the world at large. I know we lost people when we moved to SoylentIRC, and many of us never understood why we moved.

Issues started coming to a head about two weeks ago, due to an internal dispute on the operating system of choice for being run on what would be the final production systems (to date, we're still on the two Linode 2048s I setup at launch), and what the development systems would be. The decision was made without consulting all of the sys team, nor were other teams such as dev consulted at all (and as a member of both teams, I at the very least would have liked to been informed). I will not rehash this argument publicly, as it is only tangentially related to what ultimately happened. At this point, I grabbed John, and had another long one-on-one about both this, and the fact that we had a fundamental communication problem.

What happened was that I was slapped hard, my concerns dismissed as upset over not getting my way, and the communication issue was not addresses. Now, I'm going to be blunt. I nearly walked right then and there, and I fired off a reply that in hindsight I'm not proud of. My problem wasn't due the choice of OS per-se, but that a decision made by essentially one individual, and then backed even after the lack of discussion was brought to light. It wasn't clear that even within the sys team it had majority support (ultimately, I forced a vote on this matter at the staff meeting, and it was 2 for, 2 against).

Due to (pre-planned) traveling to Macau for a conference, there was little I could do at the time, but I was convinced that John needed to be forced to see what was going on. Failing that, a vote of no-confidence would be needed, since I felt that unless something gave, SoylentNews would fail due to mismanagement.

Now, mattie_p had managed to convince John to host an all-hands staff meeting for that Sunday. Although I debating calling for a no-confidence vote at the time, I ultimately settled on standing my soapbox, and forcing the communication issue into the staff as a whole, highlighting the problems with our system, and that the distro issue had prevented us from even setting up a development cluster. The dev VM exists mostly so I would have a way to test changes without unleashing them to the public before even being able to smoke test them. None of these issues were resolved in the course of the meeting.

In the days that followed, I finally managed to recover from jetlag, and starting speaking to staff 1:1, to get their feeling on things. At roughly the same time, John's QA went live. While much of the comments were positive, the staff in general felt ...

Well, felt that it was a bunch of hot air and marketing speak. Or at least that's how I'd put it. None of us had seen the answers beforehand aside from Mattie, and most of us were hoping for more substantive material. I, for one, was hoping that we were close to getting the not-for-profit setup, or at least get a discussion framed around that with concrete information.

I began going around to the staff in turn one-on-one, to try and get a feeling for the site, to see how things are, and what they're feelings on John were. For the most part, there was a sense of "gloom."

Ultimately, it boiled down to three major points:

  • For the most part, no one was really happy with our communication issues, and that they were hamstringing us everywhere.
  • No one felt that they could say anything or complain, especially since John was financing the site.
  • We had no rudder, no visible vision we could work towards, especially since it wasn't clear what John was doing after almost a solid month since we began the project. The QA was just a slap in the face in that light.

With each person, I worked toward collecting support for a no-confidence vote. My plan was that at the next staff meeting, I'd ask John to step aside, and show that our issues had not been addressed, that we were choking on ourself, and that we essentially were becoming everything we left the other site to escape. Should diplomacy fail, I intended to force the issue via a vote of no-confidence, and let the chips fall where they may.

Furthermore, five of us were going to resign should the vote fail. I had talked to roughly half the staff and had already secured a majority, but wanted to make sure everyone knew what was coming, and had a chance to voice concerns BEFORE any changes in management. Fate intervened before that could happen.

John had formally gone on vacation for a few days, but we bumped each other in the staff chat, and myself and a few members of the staff who were up (this was approximately, 4 AM my local time) started began asking questions about progress of the not-for-profit setup (there was none) and seeking redress of the communications problem. What followed was one of the most disturbing chat sessions I've ever been apart of, but after going around on the major points several times, John conceded that he did not have the time necessary to run the site properly, and conceded it over to me.

As a direct result of this impromptu meeting, the head of the sys team resigned. Although no one had asked it of him, John authored a formal resignation in his journal a few hours later, which was re-posted to the main page.

Which brings us to now. As the final meeting was at a time where much of the staff was sleeping, many woke up and found that the world they left yesterday was fairly different than the world of today. There's been a lot of rumors and FUD flying around, but this writeup took considerable time to publish, as I feel that without the full story, people will always be questioning what happened here: was it an unwarranted power grab, was money involved, or was it something more? Furthermore, internally there has been a lot of uncertainty about recent events.

So, now what?

Well, now we move forward. For me, personally, writing this has been a catharsis, allowing me to deal with everything that has happened, and put it behind me. While staff morale has improved, I suspect the majority will need to come to terms with this in their own ways. None of us are happy with out this played out, or the fact that this was necessary (myself included). I'm inviting all to post below with their comments, staff to feel free to post their own version of events, and speak candidly with how things played out. As part of our commitment to open governance, this needs to be aired out and needs to be public.

There will be no reprisal from me for any members who wish to criticize me personally, or my handling of this entire sordid affair. Furthermore, I have an 'open-door' policy on both this and all matters, simply send me a PM or email with any concerns you may have. This has been a black page in our history, and we need to move forward as a group to find our future. For members of the staff who haven't seen the IRC logs or the email transcripts, please contact me in private for a copy.

However, I ask that the #staff logs and the emails remain private. While I do not personally have an issue with my own words (even the 'nuclear letter') going public, I do not have any desire to see John dragged through the mud, especially while he's not here to personally defend himself. Please keep it professional.

As for the site itself, I'll be personally shouldering all fiscal responsibilities until the point we are self-sufficient. For John's stake in this, I have discussed the matter privately with him, and I will compensate him of his costs once I return to the United States and am in a position to send him payment. He has mailed me all his written notes and various passwords which I'm in the process of evaluating.

I will have a formal write-up of our plans for the future in the next few days, as well as how the staff have been re-organized to prevent the management silos problem and communication issues we had before.

For the community who's been affected by the strife in staff, I can only offer you a humble apology, and strive to do better. I know that some have offered to volunteer to join our staff, and have either fallen through the cracks, or got lost in the recent strife. I know there are some who've wanted to join the dev team to whom I haven't been able to respond to properly due to recent events. If you're still interested, I ask that you get in touch with mrcoolbp on the Soylent IRC server.

So this brings me to what is likely your final question is, how do I plan to make it all right?

The answer is I plan to make sure we are and continue to be transparent about the goings-on that happen behind the scenes, and continue to practice full disclosure on matters involving our community. As for recent decisions, I plan to open the floor to get feedback and see if things need to be reversed, or improved.

For the staff, we've got a mailing list (finally) setup, and you should have received an email from mrcoolbp about it. The old organization has been discarded wholesale, and I've implemented a modified version of the Incident Command System. Without going into too many details here, the basic takeaway is that I am the chief officer, and that you either report to me, or to a line officer who acts as a liaison. No one person has more than 7-12 people reporting to them tops. If you have too many people, you make a separate group reporting to you. It is the responsibility of the line officers to try and discuss options within their group, and make the final call on any decision that matters. I'd like to have all staff (but especially the officers) in the staff take the free NIMS classes available online (its about 1-2 hours long self-study course) to learn the basics of ICS, understand how we're organized, and how we change to meet demands.

While its not a traditional management structure, it applies itself well to the "get it done" model, and is something I'm experienced in from my time as a firefighter. We're not a traditional organization, and it doesn't help us to think like it. I will have a more in-depth email on this topic drafted up in a few days, and posted to the wiki that goes into the deeper specifics.

Furthermore, I also plan to make sure that as an organization, we're as transparent as possible, with a guiding manifesto and mission plan, and regular updates (probably biweekly) as to our status. I plan to get the formal name discussion post rolling as quickly as possible once I have a moment to breathe, and make sure that we are made whole again. It might been a bumpy ride from here, but I'd like to think we're looking for a lot of smoother air in our future.

NCommander adds: John has posted comments from the IRC logs from the night of the discussion. In the interest of preventing anything from being removed from context, I've posted both the nuclear letter, and IRC transcripts from the night in question. I leave them here as a record of the truth, and I shall stand to be judged accordingly.

My one request is that people please remember that these were originally private conversations, posted to set the record fully straight. Tempers were flaring, and at least in the nuclear email, it had been prefixed with several days worth of calls and discussion, and where I ultimately lost my cool.

 
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by tdk on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:31PM

    by tdk (346) on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:31PM (#12305) Homepage Journal

    For anyone interested in reading some of the background, the IRC logs are here http://logs.sylnt.us/ [sylnt.us]
    and the forum is here http://forums.soylentnews.org/ [soylentnews.org]
    The IRC channel can be joined here http://chat.soylentnews.org/ [soylentnews.org]

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +4  
       Informative=4, Total=4
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 2, Informative) by tdk on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:41PM

    by tdk (346) on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:41PM (#12312) Homepage Journal

    I should have said, the older logs which are more relevant are here: http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc/ [pg.gda.pl]

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Barrabas on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:59PM

    by Barrabas (22) on Thursday March 06 2014, @11:59PM (#12322) Journal

    If anyone's interested, the log containing the aforementioned conversation:

    http://www.pg.gda.pl/~jkozicki/irc/2014.03.04.staf f [pg.gda.pl]

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Barrabas on Friday March 07 2014, @12:18AM

    by Barrabas (22) on Friday March 07 2014, @12:18AM (#12341) Journal

    If you like high drama (and let's face it - who doesn't :-), here are some selected excerpts from the IRC logs.

    Everything has context of course. The full logs are available here [pg.gda.pl] if anyone is interested. (The log link was already published above, despite NCommander's statement.)

    22:03 NCommander: I haven't gone on hiatus with the rest of the dev team. I was really fried, and yesterday was my first day off. Is there ANY(!) chance we can not devolve into internecine fighting until I catch my breath PLEASE???
    22:03 Barrabas, I don't see how this is fighting. THese are fundamental issues I raised weeks ago, and nothing has been done.

    22:04 NCommander: Is there NO WAY I CAN CONVINCE YOU to just GIVE IT A REST for a week or so? You're in China, for gosh's sake.
    22:05 Barrabas, I'm not taking this to PM.

    22:49 Recognize that there has been a mountain of work, and I've been communicating and coordinating for 12-16 hours since the begininng. Through the sys hiatus and the week after.
    22:49 Barrabas, then delgate it
    22:50 So, when I said I was fried I wasn't making that up. I have to step away for at least a day or two to refuel.
    22:50 So you expect those days to change then?
    22:50 12-16 hours/day. All days, including weekends.
    22:50 Soylent, or real life?
    22:50 (real life wor)
    22:51 NCommander: What real life? Everything's been SoylentNews for me since the beginning.
    22:52 I can't get a spare hour to watch a movie, and I take my notebook with me to the gym to write documents between exercises.

    23:02 NCommander: I'd like to have the vision statement don, I really would. But ya see, when you spend all your time coordinating things, it's hard enough to find time to sleep.
    23:03 That is a testament to our structure not working at the moment.
    23:03 Barrabas: to most of us it seems you are not coordinating anything
    23:03 if there was some kind of voting going on, I would vote on NCommander to take the lead.
    23:03 Barrabas, I'm going to be blunt. I'm not sure how you've managed to go that long without writing it, because I could have written a manifesto on what I want this site to be in a day. I wrote a partial one when we went up.
    23:03 NCommander: Is it so critical that all these things that "must happen now" really happen now? I mean, can't we take a break and catch our breath?
    23:03 Barrabas, yes, it is. We already did that.

    • (Score: 1) by cwix on Friday March 07 2014, @12:39AM

      by cwix (873) on Friday March 07 2014, @12:39AM (#12355)

      I hate to see you go. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you go on to, and I thank you and all of the SN staff for the work it takes to run this site.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by SecurityGuy on Friday March 07 2014, @12:47AM

      by SecurityGuy (1453) on Friday March 07 2014, @12:47AM (#12361)

      Interesting. Personally, I'd say if you guys are running this thing such that you're burning out already, you're doing it wrong. Don't turn a labor of love into labor you hate.

      I've also never seen a mission statement that was worth reading, let alone writing.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @02:22AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @02:22AM (#12405)

        23:05 [@NCommander] This isn't filing taxes, its a vision plan to outline our future, and can be somewhat vague where it can be
        23:06 [@NCommander] Barrabas, and writing isn't easy for me, I just happen to be damn verbose
        23:06 [@Barrabas] NCommander: You did that. I'm still where you were at first release.
        23:06 [@NCommander] How can we pretend to run an organization if we don't have defined princaples to run it
        23:07 [@NCommander] To register a NFP, we need defined bylaws, a full business plan, explination of reveune sources
        23:07 [@NCommander] (at least in NYS)
        23:07 [@NCommander] that's a shitton of writing requiring us having stuff on paper

    • (Score: 1) by mrbluze on Friday March 07 2014, @04:20AM

      by mrbluze (49) on Friday March 07 2014, @04:20AM (#12482) Journal

      What have you done to this IRC log, it's totally inaccurate!

      --
      Do it yourself, 'cause no one else will do it yourself.
      • (Score: 2) by mrbluze on Friday March 07 2014, @04:22AM

        by mrbluze (49) on Friday March 07 2014, @04:22AM (#12483) Journal

        I retract that, I misread the log. Sorry John.

        --
        Do it yourself, 'cause no one else will do it yourself.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Barrabas on Friday March 07 2014, @01:48AM

    by Barrabas (22) on Friday March 07 2014, @01:48AM (#12385) Journal

    For more complete transparency, here is the text of the E-mails which were sent prior to this.

    For context, Zak (zford head of sys) had decided to provision the servers using CentOS. Michael (NCommander) thought that was the wrong decision, and had been repeatedly presenting his disagreement.

    These E-mails went out, then it was brought up in the staff IRC meeting, then the IRC conversation noted above happened.

    I apologize for the drama, but the long and short of it is that I just got tired of arguing with him. Again and again the subject was brought up, with no end in sight.

    I didn't want to resign, but it seemed the only way to get time off. When Michael took over and overrode the OS decision, Zak politely walked away.

    Here's what NCommander and Zak got:

    I'm told that my decisions are not communicated clearly, and that as a consequence I am perceived as a bad leader for not making any.

    Zak's choice of OS stands. He has technical reasons, he's got community consensus, and it's his group so it's his decision to make.

    When I said that I don't micromanage the overlords, I mean that I won't override their decisions, I will instead remove them from their position. This situation doesn't come close to that level of action.

    If Michael wants Zak to revisit this decision, he needs to show that either a) Zak is going against community consent, or b) present a list of reasons why choosing Ubuntu is more valuable than CentOS, and convince Zak and his community that his choice is better.

    It's important to have a working development process - we need to show the community that they can contribute, and to start improving the site. Therefore, we will not revisit the OS question for some time, perhaps as long as two weeks. When development changes flow smoothly from contributers to dev to production, we can consider making changes.

    Michael has to come to grips with this.

    Zak has to communicate better. This situation arose from Zak sending a PDF which omitted the wiki information. Zak is a manager, he has to describe and frame his decisions clearly and definitively to others. Zak also can't avoid communicating - dealing with people is part of his job, so he needs to make firm decisions without avoiding conversation.

    Zak and Michael: Play nicely or I'll tie your tails together and hang you from the clothesline!

    Mat Peck (Mattie) is general manager, he handles the day-to-day operations of the site. There will be an announcement in my journal today. He will handle disputes and has full authority to adjudicate between overlords.

    Mattie is also the current head of dev, with Michael second in command, with the understanding that leadership will transition to Michael as fast as Michael can learn management skills. Mattie will defer to Michael on decisions of a technical nature, Michael will defer to Mattie on matters of management style.

    In public, I will announce Michael as head of dev, but this is the nuanced real situation.

    Mattie is a long-time professional manager with many years experience, and has successfully managed large and small groups. He's also ex-military and knows when to take charge and make decisions.

    Based on my vision of SoylentNews being a vehicle for people to grow, and perhaps to grow into new areas, I've asked Mattie to train people as managers. We have many brilliant and highly technical people who simply have little experience managing people, and Mattie's job is to help them learn and grow.

    The first practical example of this is Mattie training Michael to run dev.

    Mattie is a resource - use him.

    That is all. I have spoken Let it be said, let it be written.

    R. Barrabas

    Afterwards, I followed up with the following E-mail to NCommander:

    I have to make this brief because my cold came back & I'm running another
    fever, so please don't read too much into the tone.

    I hope you weren't put out by the tone of my previous E-mail. As head of dev
    you've got the best seat in the house, and you shouldn't even spend time
    worrying about which OS we use. There are a lot of more interesting projects in
    dev and you're the right person to run that department.

    And know that when it comes your turn I'll back your decisions about the
    direction of dev.

    Also, note that I'm not a manager *either*, and I'm still trying to figure out
    the right tone to take. If my previous E-mail seemed a little harsh, know it
    wasn't meant as a slap in anyone's face.

    And in response, NCommander then sent this:

    Replies inline.

    On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Rajstennaj Barrabas
      wrote:
    >
    > I'm told that my decisions are not communicated clearly, and that as a
    > consequence I am perceived as a bad leader for not making any.
    >
    > Zak's choice of OS stands. He has technical reasons, he's got community
    > consensus, and it's his group so it's his decision to make.
    >

    Where is this consensus? What are the technical reasons. Where was the
    discussion. Where *are* the logs? Where is an IRC discussion, email
    thread, or anything. I've been pinging zford until I brought this to
    your attention, and I've been on IRC constantly for the last week on
    both Freenode and here.

    I said I would accept the decision *if* there was consensus, or if I
    was overruled by vote. However, by definition, there can not be a
    consensus if there has been no discussion. The *only* reason I'm aware
    of the centos decision was because I got automated emails from Linode,
    not because anyone said anything.

    What really irritates the crap out of me right now is you have gone on
    and on how we are going to be a consensus made by the community. The
    community (as in the greater community involving staff and readers as
    a whole) wouldn't have known about this, and to prevent airing our
    dirty laundry, I haven't said anything, but if you want to see the
    *real* community hands at work, I'll air this from the fucking
    montanas.

    The fact that you can write this is an email Jon really is fucking
    hypocritical. As I've said before, my problem here is how you've gone
    on and on about how we will make decisions. The reason the fucking
    site got launched is that I sat down and made it happen, decided a
    plan, picked the hosts, etc. What major decisions have we successfully
    made from them? We're in damn bubbles flubbing around with our heads
    so far up our asses its not even funny because we can't communicate
    with the way things are; we don't even have a proper mailing list for
    all staff.

    I'm going to make this clear, this situation *has* to change, or we
    will die because we have our collective heads so far up our ass we
    will never see daylight.

    > When I said that I don't micromanage the overlords, I mean that I won't
    > override their decisions, I will instead remove them from their position. This
    > situation doesn't come close to that level of action.
    >

    What happens when two teams deadlock? Who mediates the discussion?
    Ideally, dev and sys should be using the same OS. One might argue that
    decision of what we build on is dev's and sys's role is to build the
    production version of was dev comes up with. This is a decision that
    impacts multiple teams, and its been made in a void. I can easily get
    a poll from current members of dev on their opinion. As far as I can
    tell, only two people have talked about this, out of four members of
    sys, and aside from myself, no one in dev.

    > If Michael wants Zak to revisit this decision, he needs to show that either a)
    > Zak is going against community consent, or b) present a list of reasons why
    > choosing Ubuntu is more valuable than CentOS, and convince Zak and his
    > community that his choice is better.
    >

    Jon, this is quite possibly the biggest load of bull I've read in
    awhile, and we discussed it on phone on exactly these two points. I'm
    giving Zak the benefit of the doubt here, and assuming that my words
    have not been relayed, or my desire to discuss this has not been made
    clear.

    a. By definition, a decision that I find out about due to Linode
    sending AUTOMATED emails due to the issues w/ cloud hosted CentOS can
    not be considered community consent. I have asked about this, received
    two short and terse emails about it, and that was that. Jon: I made
    ths point to you on the phone, and I'm am utterly shocked that you are
    considering this consensus. Maybe I'm sounding like a broken record,
    but this isn't a management system, its a barely organized
    clusterfuck.

    You said that a decision must be made by consensus. I've hilighted and
    illustrated what I believe a consensus requires, and the fact of the
    matter is that by writing this email, and *loudly* making the point.

    b. Part of the previous emails I have made have hilighted my concerns
    with CentOS, and I have considerable technical reasons why I feel
    CentOS is not a great fit here. Furthermore, at this point, I think
    its not unreasonable to ask what technical or political benefits
    CentOS brings. So far, the *only* two reasons I've heard for CentOS is
    its what Zak knows, and that 389 Directory Service is supposedly only
    available for Fedora and CentOS. As I would have pointed out in a
    discussion, that package is available supported in Ubuntu 12.04
    (apt-get install 389)

    We've had considerable issues with Linode due to the use of CentOS;
    its clearly not popular for use with VPS or cloud providers as the
    image itself has had issues due to /dev/shm, and is now having issues
    being backed up. While these aren't problems specific to the use of
    CentOS, I'm questioning the wisdom of not using something we know is
    problem free.

      I've not seen one person beside myself ask zford for a justification
    on why a change is necessary. I was handed a PDF explaining the
    technical aspects of how to build the final production cluster. What I
    have seen is what essentially has been a declaration that this OS has
    been changing. That document did not include anything relating to
    operating system decision, and I had assumed based on earlier
    discussions we'd be staying on Ubuntu 12.04. When that document that
    posted to the wiki, a line was added about CentOS, which I never saw.

      I would like to re-iterate on this point, as you currently have an
    Ubuntu Core Developer *ON STAFF*, as well as access to Canonical
    Corporate Support if we ever needed it. CentOS is a *community*
    supported rebuild of RHEL, and can only fix bugs that Red Hat
    Corperate fixes. For most other distros, if anyone comes up with a bug
    fix, I can land it. Unless we're paying for RHEL corperate support, we
    are in a worse position with CentOS than we are with any other distro.

    > It's important to have a working development process - we need to show the
    > community that they can contribute, and to start improving the site. Therefore,
    > we will not revisit the OS question for some time, perhaps as long as two
    > weeks. When development changes flow smoothly from contributers to dev to
    > production, we can consider making changes.
    >
    > Michael has to come to grips with this.
    >

    That's fucking rich. You do realize I work in open source, with a LOT
    of volunteers, and have to make a balancing act between corporate and
    uncooperative, and I'm the one who has to "get a grip"?

    I said that I would accept changing OS after a proper discussion has
    been made, and a form where I can bring up the various issues I have
    with CentOS. Please show me where any discussion on this was made on
    an email I was either Cc-ed on, a chat in a public IRC channel which I
    acknowledged it.

    Incidently, this seems to be a good time to clarify the dev teams
    operating system position. The dev team will be standardizing on
    Ubuntu as our platform for the foreseable future, as we have already
    gotten Slash working on it, it provides a good environment for
    developers to work on (including basically all the DEs anyone could
    want), and it is what the development VM, *and* development cluster
    (which is clearly dev's domain) will be running.

    The sys team is free to use whatever they like for systems within
    their domain, but must understand that any support and help with Slash
    will be limited as we're not personally using it. I'd be willing to
    have a discussion on changing the operating system which clearly lists
    specific technical problems with Ubuntu, reasons on why CentOS is a
    superior system to work on for developers. Assuming the majority of
    the community thinks its worthwhile to invest resources in changing
    the environment over and recreating working settings, we can work out
    a reasonable timefame to do so.

    Until doing so, we'll be staying on what we've been using, known to
    work, and easy to support.

    (and if this sounds like soar grapes, let's make it clear that my hand
    has been forced and yet I'm still willing to have the discussion. and
    that's a fucking lot more than you've given me. However, until this
    discussion happens, you can expect very little help from us as none of
    us are using slash on CentOS, or know of what problems may lurk.)

    > Zak has to communicate better. This situation arose from Zak sending a PDF
    > which omitted the wiki information. Zak is a manager, he has to describe and
    > frame his decisions clearly and definitively to others. Zak also can't avoid
    > communicating - dealing with people is part of his job, so he needs to make
    > firm decisions without avoiding conversation.
    >

    Let's not distort facts here. The PDF was sent first, I provided some
    feedback on SSL and IPv6, then I signed off on it both as a member of
    sys (that I agree with the architecture), and as a member of dev (that
    our development can support this layout), the PDF was copied to the
    wiki, THEN the CentOS line was added. The only reason I found out
    about the CentOS business is because Linode started generating emails,
    and then I send an email to Zak asking him about it.

    I brought this to both your and Mattie's attention that I was
    concerned about communication. I discussed the matter in depth with
    mattie, with a clear note that after today, this discussion needs to
    be email only due to TZ differences. I was offline on Wednesday due to
    Panama->NYC flying. Looking at my email and IRC backload, I've seen no
    progress on discussing things.

    > Zak and Michael: Play nicely or I'll tie your tails together and hang you from
    > the clothesline!
    >

    Jon: Look around you, and tell me this is a healthy setup for this site.

    You're tone in this email makes it clear you have no idea what the
    problems going on here, especially given the other email you sent
    here. And this isn't a matter of sour grapes, this is you
    fundamentally missing the point I tried to raise on Saturday. However,
    as you've already cleared Zak's decision, it appears the sys team will
    be using CentOS. Dev has not had a discussion if it will follow sys, I
    have no desire to raise it with dev, but if the item is raised by
    someone taking the time to write out a long email explaining why
    CentOS is the best thing since sliced bread and our lives are better
    for using it, I'll make sure its properly moderated, sent to all
    active devs, and personally explain at length why I think its a bad
    idea, and have the floor be open to others. If the general consensus
    from the dev team is a strong advocation for, we can work out a
    migration plan, and determine the best process to switching to CentOS,
    having identified any possible problem points (like Linode itself)
    well in advance.

    > Mat Peck (Mattie) is general manager, he handles the day-to-day operations of
    > the site. There will be an announcement in my journal today. He will handle
    > disputes and has full authority to adjudicate between overlords.
    >

    Why then are you involved in this discussion? If this is *really* the
    case, Mattie should have been one to send an email like this.

    > Mattie is also the current head of dev, with Michael second in command, with
    > the understanding that leadership will transition to Michael as fast as Michael
    > can learn management skills. Mattie will defer to Michael on decisions of a
    > technical nature, Michael will defer to Mattie on matters of management style.
    >

    I'm mostly willing to defer at this point because Mattie getting shit
    done. Jon, you told me personally that during our bringup, I "pissed a
    lot of people off", and "overruled you at times", and I agreed to have
    Mattie as manager. Given your handling of this situation and our
    recent management woes, I think its better to have pissed off people
    and having someone who knows what they're doing running operations.

    I'd like to know who specifically I pissed off, so I can go make
    amends to them, and make it clear what's going on. I'm done playing
    games because I'm beginning to question if these people existed. As
    for the "overruled you at times", can you honestly say that if we were
    running like this during launch week, do you think we will have gotten
    out the door? To be frank, if I overruled you, its because I have the
    experience to develop a project like this, and our inability to make
    even simple decisions or discuss it.

    > In public, I will announce Michael as head of dev, but this is the nuanced
    > real situation.
    >

    There's truth and then there's reality. While Mattie on paper may be
    the head of dev, realistically, I don't think he's going to have much
    success in this role. He'd be far more successful managing entire
    project into one collective well oiled machine. Dev is mostly informal
    with drive by contributions, and slight encourgement that I give
    various people in channel. As such, I've gotten a steady patches and
    repair work which has helped reduced my workload. Until we get someone
    else willing to put significant effort and not drive by contributions,
    the dev team exists more as a theoretical concept then an actual team.

    Furthermore, there's a concept of "code talks", where if you don't do
    something and just bring it up (or demand it), you will likely either
    be ignored, or run into resistance. I can ask nicely and sometimes get
    someone to do something because I've got respect in that position. I
    suspect mattie will have significantly more trouble in this
    department.

    > Mattie is a long-time professional manager with many years experience, and has
    > successfully managed large and small groups. He's also ex-military and knows
    > when to take charge and make decisions.
    >

    And who was working with me on this situation before you went and
    wrote this email. I ended up taking today off from SoylentNews because
    I was seething by time I was done with it. I do respect Mattie's
    opinion, and ability to get shit done.

    > Based on my vision of SoylentNews being a vehicle for people to grow, and
    > perhaps to grow into new areas, I've asked Mattie to train people as managers.
    > We have many brilliant and highly technical people who simply have little
    > experience managing people, and Mattie's job is to help them learn and grow.
    > The first practical example of this is Mattie training Michael to run dev.
    >
    > Mattie is a resource - use him.
    >

    I have been. However, by butting in here, I've had to draw my line in
    the sand, and I talked to Mattie before sending this email. I'm
    curious if you talked to him before sending yours.

    I'm pretty sure I know the answer on that one already.

    > That is all. I have spoken Let it be said, let it be written.
    >
    > R. Barrabas
    >

    Michael

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @05:09AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @05:09AM (#12497)

      Soylentnews is fuckups.

      Y'all need to get over your egos. This site is an abortion, and will quickly fade from the map.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @11:35AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2014, @11:35AM (#12604)

    There's a nice box titled "SoylentNews" on the left, whose content currently reads: "You should update your organisation template and put some links here linking back to your site."

    I think it would be a good idea to put those links there.