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Russian troops are proving that cell phones in war zones are a very bad idea:
It’s been a nightmare scenario for U.S. commanders for years: An amphibious readiness group sails stealthily towards its objective, one reckless Marine or sailor goes topside and uses a personal cell phone to check Facebook, revealing the position of the assault ship. The Chinese or Russians quickly detect the cell phone signal in the middle of the ocean and realize they can’t miss. The enemy fires its anti-ship ballistic or cruise missiles at Pfc./Seaman Schmuckatelli as he posts a meme and suddenly the entire ship along with thousands of sailors and Marines are lying on the ocean floor.
To some, this type of scenario may seem as hyperbolic as warnings that wearing white socks in combat could give away your location to the enemy, but Russian troops in Ukraine have shown the perils of using cell phones in modern-day warzones.
The Ukrainians claim to have killed 12 general Russian officers since late February, in part because the Russians have resorted to using cell phones when their communications systems break down.
“It is not hard to geo-locate someone on a phone talking in the clear,” retired Army Gen. Ben Hodges, former commander of U.S. Army Europe, told the New York Times.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16 2022, @08:21AM (9 children)
If they're just targeting any cellphone in the area then maybe the Russians should go buy a big bunch of cheap Chinese phones, scatter them in various places and get them to power up and shutdown at various times. The battery life on some of these can be more than a month if you don't have them on all the time.
I'm pretty sure Chinese phones are much cheaper than missiles.
If it's based on the voice/conversation that can be faked too - would take a bit more effort though.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16 2022, @12:30PM (4 children)
You know, these troops are taking over Ukrainian areas and these areas are run by Ukrainian telecoms. And then they are roaming with their phones?? It's quite easy to connect the dots here.
It wasn't long ago that the FitBits and others were outing Americans on their secret bases. This is not a "Russian fail", more of a general army fail in an interconnected world. Since every cellphone that is on can be located to a few dozen meters ..... do I need to continue? This is not super-duper-high-tech-James-bond tech here.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases [theguardian.com]
Why? They could just mimic 1000s of fake sims. And maybe they do, but then to verify these things, you need to do actual reconnaissance. Keep in mind that we are subject to Ukrainian propaganda too -- we don't see any failures on Ukrainian side, only the "laughable Russians" -- that in itself is propaganda.
Anyway, there is the reality on the ground. Ukrainians are not welcoming Russian forces and not giving up their nation. For the rest, who knows.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16 2022, @02:00PM (1 child)
A real military has other methods of communication other than stealing cell phones and hoping that nobody is listening in.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday May 16 2022, @05:18PM
Do you even try to read the source material or do you make all your statements based on a few lines of summary?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday May 16 2022, @08:46PM
Speaking of misdirection attacks, if I was a local farmer pissed off enough to tell someone what I saw, I'd ask for a favor like asking for one of the disinformation services to do their usual job of propaganda by releasing a "news story" about how nobody saw nutthin and all those invaders got drilled by playing farmville on their phones. Yup it sure wasn't a pissed off local or a humint spy or a local hired for menial labor, yup it was farmville that killed all those generals... Everyone trusts their propaganda sources, right? Those guys would never lie to us.
(Score: 2) by number11 on Tuesday May 17 2022, @03:50AM
Sure is. And phone systems are built with the ability for the local authorities to easily tap. People may remember that in 2005, the Greek government discovered that the local phone system (IIRC made by Ericsson) had had the taps turned on by parties unknown, and was tapping a selection of VIPs (including the PM).
I'm sure the Russians know how to do that too, but it only works when you have access (direct or hacked) to the telco's system. So probably only in the areas where they have complete control, and don't have to spend their time dodging incoming. Fortunately, the Russian military comm system seems to be garbage, even generals seem to use cheap Chinese comm gear so that they have something that at least works. And Russ soldiers are as addicted to their cells as Americans.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16 2022, @01:05PM (3 children)
Perhaps any phone that works comes with a billing plan. The phone companies, even in these parts of the world seem pretty pickey about getting paid?
Alternatively, look back in time at where the phone has been.
I wonder where this all is heading. The Russians clearly didn't take it seriously at he beginning. A bit like Hagar the Horrible, off to rape and pillage, then back for supper.
The Russians say they are concerned about having a bunch of NATO troops just over their border, this seems BS:
Nato purpose is not to take stuff. It is to prevent stuff from being taken. Hitler showed that you can take Europe like a sequence of falling dominos, but Nato requires you to take them all at once. A much harder thing to do.
The performance of Russia in Ukraine shows that if Nato wanted to, they could easily take Russia, but they don't and won't. The Nukes are part of it, but Nato is strong enough to make peace instead of war.
If Putin's goal were for Russia to be safe and properous, he would just move back from the border and then Nato would be able to do the same. Instead, he does the opposite and complains of the outcome.
He either has another goal, or his thinking is wrong.
BTW: for a sustained peace, Ukraine should not ask for things to be back where they were the day before the invasion. That would leave a ready for another invasion army on the border. Both sides need to move back from the border proportionally.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pkrasimirov on Monday May 16 2022, @01:50PM (2 children)
> Both sides need to move back from the border proportionally.
Maybe this won't work as you expect it. One of the sides is notorious of breaking their promises and then making official rhetorics out of any reality explaining the other side did it instead. So any such agreement will result in lawless strip in Ukraine with roaming little green men making again what they always did before. My bet is on a strong border control, both military and on immigration/contraband from the worker's paradise.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16 2022, @04:40PM (1 child)
"Maybe this won't work as you expect it."
I can see that if the Russians can't restrain themselves from the little green men plan, then the proportional response is as you suggest.
If they eventually figure out that life is better without the LGM, then both can withdraw. The Russians seem slow learners in this regard.
More interestingly, the number of opposing forces poised just outside Russia in the New Nato North should depend on if Russia becomes smart enough to learn that with Nato less forces deployed on the border makes Russia more secure. More Nato forces on the border doesn't risk an invasion, but rather some sort of mistake with bad consequences.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 17 2022, @04:46PM
Russia has restrained itself from that exactly once in the last thousand years, and it was only the direct threat of a third Russian massacre by Finland that made it stick.