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The Debian project has suffered from a long string of negative events recently, ranging from severe discontent over the inclusion of systemd, to talk of forking the project, to a grave bug affecting the important 'wine' package, to the resignation and reduced involvement of long time contributors.
The latest strife affecting Debian revolves around a request for a Debian package of the GPC-Slots 2 software. This request has been rejected with little more than an ad hominem attack against the software's author.
In response to the request, Stephen Gran wrote,
This is code by someone who routinely trolls Debian. I doubt we want any more poisonous upstreams in Debian, so I at least would prefer this never get packaged.
Jonathan Wiltshire proceeded to mark the request as 'wontfix', and closed it.
While Debian does strive to maintain high standards regarding the software it packages, the negative and personal nature of this rejection, without any apparent technical or licensing concerns, appears to conflict with Debian's own Code of Conduct. Such a personal attack could be seen as contradictory to the Code of Conduct's mandate that Debian participants "Be respectful", "Be collaborative", and most importantly, "Assume good faith".
Given its recent troubles as of late, many of them concerning the poor treatment of Debian developers and users alike, can Debian really afford to get embroiled in yet another negative incident?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @01:40AM
This character is ruining SN already.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 24 2014, @10:06AM
I can understand you not liking this particular story - the earlier ones from the same submitter were rejected because they were far more inflammatory. However, this one did pose some serious questions and, amongst all the dross of the modded down comments, there are some interesting views on how this matter could have been handled better by Debian. I fail to see how, as the 'character' involved, I am single-handedly destroying SN with this one story rather than the 1000+ others that I have edited. I'm willing to enter into a discussion about this if you wish, as long as it does not result in a bun fight like some other comments in this thread have ended up.
For the record, I agree with Debian's decision, I think the submitter is a troll. His views towards women are his own business but they do not belong either here or in software that is being packaged for a repository. The inclusion of Easter Eggs is also unprofessional and unacceptable.
I'm sorry that this story did not meet your approval - but it has received quite a significant response from others. You are, of course, free not to read any story if you do not think it is on a subject that interests you. While we are open to input from ACs - which I whole-heartedly support - there is bound to be the occasional story that is submitted by the person concerned in the summary. I cannot prove this to be the case in this instance, but the writing style and the arguments offered in rebuttal of any criticism here do suggest that this is, in fact, what has happened here.
janrinok
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Monday November 24 2014, @11:45AM
Its not your fault, and I for one am glad you replied and read through the thread (this is the best thing an editor can do). I have nothing but respect for the people who spend their time to keep this website going.
However, I feel you read the replies wrong. It is not that we are interested (any non AC poster that posted above can mention his or her disagreement to this statement below). Over 90% of the post here are a discussion between a few subscribed people and the same AC. Even people who see through him get tricked into a discussion. I think most of us would prefer to discuss something more worthwhile than gpc-slots. Its a typical trollfest.
Using sites such as SN for a hate war is becoming more common. It is quite hard to prevent, Especially if they are as persistent as MikeeUSA seems to be. Its smaller sites and forums that are more vulnerable to this kind of attack, and I have personally seen it get out of hand.
The good thing that can come from this is a discussion about how to deal with this type of post. Personally, I would request for cautiousness in accepting stories from ACs that seem inflammatory, as you may be "used". Secondly, although not perfect, slashcode could put an unique hash on an ip (perhaps only visible for editors). Of course this can be defeated as pointed out above. But anything that slows people like this down is worthwhile.
But I would prefer that the staff discuss this internally and sets guidelines how to deal with this, not all of which needs necessary to be known publically (simply to make it more difficult to defeat said policy).
Interesting slightly relevant tidbit: I once wrote a small script that "fingerprinted" forum messages using bzip2. Similar data compresses better, so given a large sample of writing of someone I could say with reasonable accuracy whether a certain post was written by the same person or not. I was able to unmask a troll with a double account. With some practice, you can however defeat this easily, so its not a real solution either (besides, most SN posts are a bit too short for it).
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 24 2014, @01:06PM
Thanks. I found the 'esr' link interesting too. MikeeUSA has been around for quite a while it seems and he is unpopular in most of the places that he and I are both likely to frequent. Hence his choice of AC when submitting what I believe to be his own story. I will look out for him in the future and will happily view any subsequent submissions that might be from him in an entirely different light.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @01:08PM
It's beginning to feel a lot like Slashdot over here!
Nutters such as yourself are incorrectly claiming that all ACs are the same person.
Then you claim that there are "hate wars" and "conspiracies" going on, when there obviously aren't.
And now there's this nonsense about your comment "fingerprinting" script using bzip2 compression ratios?!
Hilarious!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @04:48PM
Shut up MikeeUSA, no one gives a damn!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @10:53PM
My bzip2 comment fingerprinting script has positively identified you as MikeeUSA. So you need to shut up, based on your own request to yourself.
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Monday November 24 2014, @12:19PM
and (sorry for double post), this provides an interesting read on the AC that I hope is convincing enough that at least some discussion about this is warranted:
http://pipedot.org/story/2014-11-21/opensource-game-rejected-from-debian-for-authors-social-beliefs [pipedot.org]
turns out he is quite famous:)
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Monday November 24 2014, @12:21PM
argh, managed to paste the wrong link. Anyway, here is what ESR had to say about this person:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1310 [ibiblio.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @01:04PM
There's nothing wrong with this submission. In fact, it's a very good submission.
There's nothing wrong with your decision to put it on the front page. In fact, it was a very good decision.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday November 24 2014, @03:36PM
The inclusion of Easter Eggs is also unprofessional and unacceptable.
Easter eggs in general, or just hateful ones that the package maintainers don't know about?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Informative) by Marand on Monday November 24 2014, @11:35PM
Easter eggs in general, or just hateful ones that the package maintainers don't know about?
I'd say that easter eggs as universally unprofessional, and that's what makes them appealing, both to the author and the users that like them. They're usually a good-natured way for a developer to put a bit of personality into a piece of software that's otherwise all business; a way for the author to leave their mark. Having a popup that appears with a small picture of your kitten and a thank-you for using the software when you input the Konami code isn't professional at all, but it's not hurting the software. A few people might complain that it increases the size of the binary slightly, but most won't care.
They become unacceptable when they start doing things like going "FUCK YOU!", "ALL MEN SHOULD DIE", "NO RIGHTS FOR WOMEN", "EAT DICKS, HIPSTER", etc. Their purpose is no longer a bit of fun and personality; they become a vehicle for the author's agenda and/or a way to piss people off. Maybe a bit of a "haha I got you to install offensive software" in there too.
One could argue that neither belongs in a distro, but the latter type definitely doesn't.
In the case of gpcslots2, there's at least two easter eggs that I've seen. One is deliberately inflammatory, and I'm not sure how to categorise the other. He decided to embed deCSS in some form, which might not preclude inclusion but might require Debian to provide some sort of disclaimer relating to it. Gven the nature of dealing with the author, it's easy to see why no Debian maintainer would want to be responsible for trying to get the easter eggs cleaned up acceptably. Even if the obvious ones are removed, the code is a gigantic mess and the author is provably unhinged. It would be a nightmare to try digging through every version to check for problems, and folly to rely on the author's goodwill based on years of bad behaviour.
Not that it matters. There's no requirement that Debian package everything, and it's just a Perl script, so anybody that wants to can download and run it with no trouble.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @03:05AM
Stating your opinion is bad behavior if that opinion is opposed to "social justice". Yep.
There is nothing wrong with the code. It does what it was designed to do without fault or error.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Tuesday November 25 2014, @03:24AM
Stating your opinion is bad behavior if that opinion is opposed to "social justice". Yep.
There is nothing wrong with the code. It does what it was designed to do without fault or error.
That isn't what I said at all, mikee, and you know it. Nothing I've said here has been about "social justice".
Also there's plenty wrong with the code, and no amount of defending it is going to make it less terrible. Maybe you should spend less time trying to convince us it's not shit and more time cleaning it up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @12:37PM
It does exactly what it was designed to do, nothing more, nothing less.
Try it out before knocking it.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday November 25 2014, @03:55PM
Except for the bigoted easter egg, sure. By definition an easter egg is "something more."
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:04AM
Nope, that was in there from the start. Part of the design.
Free Software was written by hobbyists until a few years ago.
This piece of software has its beginning in the time before the corporate take-over of
the "lets make our own software for free in our own time" movement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:06AM
There is nothing bigoted about it.
Women should not have rights, Men should be able to marry girl children.
Read the Bible. If you disagree and you work to make the world a
"better place" where such things are not so, then well hopefully
Russia does what it's been threatening to do lately.
(You know, the resurgent Orthodox Russia)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @06:17PM
I agree with your comments above and don't think there is anything wrong with this story. Don't blame yourself, you can't please all the people all the time. It's easy enough to edit a few stories but doing it day in and day out for months or years it becomes work real fast and it takes dedication to continue to do it. For the 1000+ other stories that you have edited I'd like to say thank you for your work and the work of the other editors.
(Score: 2) by efitton on Monday November 24 2014, @06:59PM
Janrinok, thank you for the time it must take to be an editor. Overall I am very pleased to be a reader and a sometimes commentator here at SN.
That said, I am glad I read the comments on this article but only because otherwise I would have a negative impression of Debian. I don't always read the comments; for this "article" that is a problem. If you aren't going to make edits to the submission: this one needs huge caveats as it sits on the front page. And frankly if I'd seen those caveats I would have skipped reading this article and read comments on something different. We were trolled. So no, I do not like having this particular story on Soylent News. Best case we engaged a troll; worse case people have an unfair slant on Debian.
Now I don't think there is a crisis. I don't think we're becoming slashdot. I don't think you are responsible for the end of Western Civilization. My suggestion as a reader though is next time don't feed the troll.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @09:52PM
I am the GP AC. I accused you of "ruining SN" because some of your post selections smell of troll baiting a la slashdot's "samzenpus", but your explanation for this post is appreciated. Take my criticism for what it is worth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @10:55PM
You're not the GGP AC. You're MikeeUSA. My bzip2 comment fingerprint script has identified you as such, and it can't possibly be wrong!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @12:27AM
Why do you agree with debian's decision.
If someone asked you to chose which of these banks you would like to do business with:
1) Chase
2) Wells Fargo
3) Vatican
4) Bank of England
5) Valartis
6) LGT
7) Raiffeisen
8) DBS
9) UOB
10) OCBC
11) SPDB
And your answer was "muh dick". Should they say "ah yes, wells fargo it is"?
Why should it be any different if you instead say "some bitch", or an analogue thereof?
(Or in this case "The bank I wish to do business with is "feminists" or "woman", I reject all your preselected options")
Since when has opensource been professional?
It is (or it was, perhaps there was a takeover of some sort) people doing things for free as a hobby in their spare time.
The fact of the matter is the program in question does what it was programmed to do:
It allows you to virtually gamble in a text console. It even includes a stockmarket.
It doesn't crash and doesn't have any known vulnerabilities.
Debian rejected it because the author's opinions are in opposition to SJWs opinions. That's it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday November 25 2014, @08:32AM
It may do what it is programmed to do - or so you think. However, what has been programmed is not what I expect in a slot game. Why include the rant against women in the program? Is it an integral part of the game? I suggest 'No'. Why does it have easter eggs at all? Is it what the title or description of the game says the program contains? Again, I suggest 'No'. So my first response is that the game is not what it purports to be. Therefore I side with Debian on their decision not to include it.
Having had several people give their views on the quality of the code - people whose views I respect, because I have seen at first hand what they are capable of here on this site - the code in the program is of very poor quality. It is likely, therefore, to include bugs. They will not do what I, nor you, expect the game to do. Again, I tend to agree with Debian's decision that it is not worth the effort of packaging and distributing it. At best, it will reflect poorly on their other software and, at worst, it may well have hidden functions about which the user will have no inkling. Debian's decision is looking like it is the correct one.
Finally, we have a saying in the military - don't shit on your own doorstep! So after years of trolling Debian, of rants here and elsewhere regarding the actions of the Debian team, and (in my own personal view) of unacceptable and unwarranted insults to individuals who are supporting Debian, the program writer now wants them to support his poor efforts at programming? My response would be somewhat stronger than Debian's has been - but it would have contained the same message - 'No'. He has brought this upon himself.
Debian was wrong to simply annotate the game submission as 'unwanted - wontfix' - they should have had the decency to describe, as I have done, why the software is simply not good enough for inclusion. The end result would have been the same but it would have taken a little more effort on the part of Debian to achieve it. If the author has any sense at all, he will learn from this and try to improve his programming skills. Perl is a powerful language but it is being used as if by a child. Yes, it might meet the author's standards, but he will never be a programmer of any repute if that is the level of ability that he displays in all his other efforts.
But the worst mistake, in my view, is that he brought his petty views and complaints to this site. Those of his ilk have had their chance with me - and they have blown it! I, unlike Debian, have responded so that you know why I hold these views. I also suspect that you and the author are one and the same. By all means reply if you must - but neither you nor he will receive any further explanations from me.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @12:28PM
Debian is not correct.
They weren't correct when they removed the "hotgirls" package.
They weren't correct when they booted Ted Walther out.
And they aren't correct now.
What they are is scum.
Also, fuck systemd.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @12:30PM
"Why does it have easter eggs at all?"
Because opensource is NOT about professionalism.
It's a hobby and it's for fun.
Clearly you weren't around even 10 years ago here.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday November 25 2014, @02:50PM
From my SN page:
I first got involved in software in 1979 and have followed Unix, Windows, and Linux from whenever each was available. Big business requires professionalism from Linux - and it gets it. The fact that this particular piece of software is well below that standard does not mean that all FOSS should strive to be of the same low standard.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:02AM
Nor does it mean that all software written by hobbyists should cater to big businesses you fuck.
Go and FUCK yourself.
Oh, and go and do it for free, in a professional manner, heeding codes of conduct and standards.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday November 26 2014, @10:02AM
My, my - you don't like losing an argument, do you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @01:03PM
The argument wasn't lost. You appealed to commercialism in a discussion about free software.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 25 2014, @12:32PM
Something extremely statically typed, much like an old basic program, is less likely to have
bugs than something written "cleverly". You can see exactly how the logic will unfold once
it hits the iron because it uses hardly any language features not found in lower level
languages like ASM (the exception being not having to mess with a stack...)