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A couple days back, we had a reapplication of the flawed idea of the paradox of tolerance - the idea, promulgated by philosopher Karl Popper, that if a community or society tolerates intolerance then it will eventually become an intolerant society - the alleged paradox is that tolerance leads to intolerance.

I disputed the idea then, but I think it's worthy of a more thorough thrashing. So I'll start with this post of mine from 2018:

Idiots like J-Mo aren't equipped to handle Popper's Paradox of Tolerance.

There is no paradox of tolerance. Let's recall what Popper actually wrote on the paradox:

Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.β€Šβ€”β€ŠIn this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

Tolerating intolerant beliefs doesn't imply that one tolerates murder in the streets. While there may be ameliorating context outside of this paragraph, Popper commits a serious slippery slope fallacy here that tolerating intolerant beliefs then segues into tolerating physical attacks and such even though by no stretch of the imagination are they legitimate means of discourse, and then equates any flavor of intolerant belief with the subset of intolerance that settles disagreement with violence. Finally, he doesn't consider how this intolerance can be abused. I think we're seeing a taste of it today, where rival beliefs can be declared to be "intolerant" (often without regard for the content of the beliefs) and hence, fair game for preemptive intolerance.

That I think is the paradox of intolerance of intolerance. Once you do it, you and your beliefs fall solidly in the category of things against which you are supposedly intolerant. You should be intolerant of yourself and your beliefs! Not going to happen in practice, of course.

Instead a far better approach (one which I might add has been rather successful with respect to dealing with discrimination in the workplace) is to tolerate the belief, but don't tolerate the observable, harmful behavior. That eliminates most of the Orwellian facets of the Popper approach. Often it also means that you don't have to care what people believe. If someone assaults another, it doesn't matter what either of them believed (except perhaps as a means to further demonstrate guilt of the attacker in court).

Let's consider that quote a bit. First, I'm quoting it out of context so there might be some nuance I'm missing. But so has everyone else who brings it up. My rebuttal is to the bare argument, but I think that reasonable given that no one else goes any further.

The core of my rebuttal is in the paragraph after the above quote. There are three serious flaws in the quote that need to be considered. First, a slippery slope argument that assumes the presence of intolerance will eventually avalanche into widespread intolerance. A rival viewpoint here is that exposure to tolerance can make the intolerant more tolerant.

Second, there is an conflation of intolerance with violence. However, this doesn't explain cultures that are intolerant in various non-violent ways. For example, there are a variety of pacifist, isolationist religions (for example, Amish and Hutterites). They qualify as intolerant since they eschew a great of contact with the outside world, but that intolerance never rises to the level of violence, much less the "fists and pistols" of the Popper narrative.

Finally, is the whole problem with this idea, the paradox of intolerance of intolerance. Sorry, just because your bigotry is against some out-group that happens to be intolerant (or worse, wrongly perceived to be intolerant) just means that you're engaging in the very same intolerance. It's not only hypocritical, it's continuing the problem.

My take is that engagement is the better approach. Consider this. Every wacko cult follows similar playbooks: they isolate their followers from the rest of the world so that everyone is in the same screwy environment. Only the true believers are allowed to interact with the outside world in any way. Many other intolerant beliefs operate in the same way - creating an "us versus them" mythology, echo chambers, and similar means to cut off the believers from exposure to experiences that could undermine the beliefs. The strategy of intolerance versus such believers enforces this isolation. It makes the problems of intolerance worse.

So not only is the paradox of tolerance critically flawed on multiple levels, it makes the basic problem of intolerance worse.

 

Reply to: Re:Pre-emptive rebuttal

    (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 16 2022, @08:47AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 16 2022, @08:47AM (#1261257)

    Aristarchus, you were banned for doxxing Runaway, then for persistent disruption of SN with spam comments. Be honest enough to admit these things, which are plainly evident to many people here.

    You say that you support free speech but your actions say otherwise. You doxxed Runaway with the goal of intimidating him into self-censoring what he posts. Self-censorship is still censorship, and it has a chilling effect on free speech.

    I'm the AC who called you Ahab. While you've always been, shall we say, a unique poster, you contributed useful content. People who disagreed with you still respected and defended you. Then you became so obsessed with Runaway, your white whale, that you caused your own downfall. You are familiar with ancient Greece, meaning that you are undoubtedly familiar with the literary form of tragedy. That describes you, becoming so concerned with bringing about the fall of Runaway that you instead caused your own downfall.

    Spock said that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. In that sense, it is preferable to take action to prevent you from posting disruptive content and to also stop APK's disruptive behavior for the benefit of many other users.

    If you would like your story to have another act, it should be to repent and try to regain what you have lost. That would begin with an honest admission of what you have done and a commitment to not repeating the actions that led to your downfall. So far, you have shown no interest in doing so.

    Have you ever seen the episode of Star Trek: Voyager called Bliss? It involves a telepathic space creature that tricks other beings into seeing their fantasies while they are actually being devoured by the creature. At no point is there any indication that the creature is actually intelligent. It's basically a Venus flytrap in space that uses telepathy instead of scents to attract its prey. Qatai helps Voyager escape from the creature, but is obsessed with killing the creature to the point that he cannot move on with his life. Even after a vast number of failed attempts to kill the creature, even as Voyager escapes and leaves to continue their journey toward the Alpha Quadrant, Qatai returns yet again to attempt to destroy the space creature. You are Qatai and Runaway is the creature.

    Shall I call you Qatairistarchus? Or will you demonstrate the self-awareness to see what you have become, and to change?

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