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posted by janrinok on Thursday November 27 2014, @05:50PM   Printer-friendly
from the have-the-cake-and-eat-it dept.

Brian Fung writes in the Washington Post that Wikipedia has been a little hesitant to weigh in on net neutrality, the idea that all Web traffic should be treated equally by Internet service providers such as Comcast or Time Warner Cable. That's because the folks behind Wikipedia actually see a non-neutral Internet as one way to spread information cheaply to users in developing countries. With Wikipedia Zero, users in places like Pakistan and Malaysia can browse the site without it counting it counting against the data caps on their cellphones or tablets. This preferential treatment for Wikipedia's site helps those who can't afford to pay for pricey data — but it sets the precedent for deals that cut against the net neutrality principle. "We believe in net neutrality in America," says Gayle Karen Young adding that Wikipedia Zero requires a different perspective elsewhere. "Partnering with telecom companies in the near term, it blurs the net neutrality line in those areas. It fulfils our overall mission, though, which is providing free knowledge."

Facebook and Google also operate programs internationally that are exempted from users' data caps — a tactic known somewhat cryptically as "zero rating". Facebook in particular has made “Facebook Zero” not just a sales pitch in developing markets but also part of an Internet.org initiative to expand access “to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.” But a surprising decision in Chile shows what happens when policies of neutrality are applied without nuance. Chile recently put an end to the practice, widespread in developing countries, of big companies “zero-rating” access to their services. "That might seem perverse," says Glyn Moody, "since it means that Chilean mobile users must now pay to access those services, but it is nonetheless exactly what governments that have mandated net neutrality need to do."

 
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  • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday November 27 2014, @10:23PM

    by Lagg (105) on Thursday November 27 2014, @10:23PM (#120698) Homepage Journal

    I mostly just used it as a segway into further related discussion. If the guy wants to see his donation money used to help the plethora of issues countries such as his /or the one wikipedia is based in before it being used to exploit countries with fledgling at best infrastructure I think his point is entirely reasonable. I'm not going to disregard such points because they might be interpreted as racism or xenophobia. That's stupid and people in a science and tech community should know why it's stupid.

    To be honest I'm not so sure I'd want my donation money being used this way either. Generally when I donate to projects focusing heavily on the internet I expect those funds to be used where there is a lot of internet presence. Most first world countries have pretty severe issues with availability in rural areas. There's definitely an issue with free access. This isn't anything having to do with the people themselves, it's simply a matter of fixing problems in one place before starting an entirely new project in another.

    Maybe the initial post really doesn't want his money going to projects in third world countries just because they're third world countries. I highly doubt that's the case, but you know what? I see his point there too and he's free to have it since there is any number of reasons this would be the case. Coddled pissants everywhere need to start seeing the line between free expression and outright bigotry. I live in the southwestern US which is not known for its hospitality to people with the wrong accent or tan. I see black guys being asked by white guys if they're going to steal, I see black guys calling white guys that they asked for a cigarette "racist crackers" because they don't give them one. I see white and black guys calling latino guys "dirty" for no apparent reason. I see latino guys verbally harassing both white and black guys too.

    That's racism and xenophobia. There are few things I hate more. Saying you don't want to finance third world projects when the projects at home have issues to work on is expressing a valid point. If you fail to see the distinction you're just giving companies wanting to abuse the already weak net neutrality in fledgling countries an opening to use.

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  • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday November 27 2014, @10:49PM

    by frojack (1554) on Thursday November 27 2014, @10:49PM (#120701) Journal

    If you fail to see the distinction you're just giving companies wanting to abuse the already weak net neutrality in fledgling countries an opening to use.

    You were on a good roll, till that last, somewhat confusing, sentence. Parsing that sentence hurt my brain, and I'm still not sure I catch your drift.

    If the companies like Wiki are willing to damage the entire internet for their pet projects, then they are not deserving of support.
    Let them buy infrastructure and donate that rather than dividing up the existing bandwisth.

    Breaking the internet in their quest for page views (and self aggrandizement) ultimately does more harm than good.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:16PM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:16PM (#120711) Homepage
      Agreed. The end (getting info to people who want and need it) does not always justify the means (enabling destructive telcos from puting a jack-hammer to the foundations of the internet). If they want the information to be distributed at minimal cost, they should simply work towards having absolutely lightweight pages, so that every byte of data sent delivers 8 bits of useful information. To be honest, the "Simple English" wikipedia does part of that, as it strips off a lot of the blah-blah-blah that main English page carries that you might not even care about until you've absorbed the simple english version.

      Alternatively, they could burn a thousand DVDs, and distribute those to school or library systems free of charge. That would cost less than one worker-week's wages in the US, even if it might cost several worker-year's wages in some of the destination countries. You don't need to break the internet in order to distribute information.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:12PM (#120707)

    segue [google.com]

    Segway [tronitech.no]
    A name from a very clever marketing guy.

    .
    I don't grok Frost Piss' xenophobia.
    It's obvious to me that the problem at the root of this is Crony Capitalism (anti-competitive cartels) and their data caps.

    What's needed globally is more places like Chattanooga and Wilson, NC (Socialist ISPs).

    -- gewg_

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @12:25AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @12:25AM (#120739)

      Please don't use insults like "homophone" here. Yes, some men like other men, and some women like other women. There's nothing wrong with that!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @10:54AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @10:54AM (#120808)

        Hey, there's nothing insulting about the word homophone. My phone is proud to be a homophone, so proud that he doesn't even shut the goddamn bedroom door when he's banging my wife's Lumia.
        I mean I'm not a bigot or anything but there are some things I'd just rather not look at, you know?

    • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday November 28 2014, @01:26AM

      by aristarchus (2645) on Friday November 28 2014, @01:26AM (#120749) Journal

      Xenophobia: Fear of Xena the Warrior Princess, and with good reason! Lucy Lawless could snap you in half like that boy that Congressman Grimes was threatening to break in half. But it could be worse! Fear of Xenu? Oh crap, he escaped, and he's after my operating Thetans? Tom Cruise, save us! So, Gweg, (if you actually are the real gw_eg), do you grok the Xeno now? (Actually, just a Greek work for aliens. Not space aliens, just foreigner aliens, like people from the third world for whom somehow we have to subsidize the internet thereof. Or something. I am just confused by all the racists, xenophobes, homophones, xylophones, homophobes and arachniphobes in this thread! Seriously!)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:34PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 27 2014, @11:34PM (#120717)

    Coddled pissants everywhere need to start seeing the line between free expression and outright bigotry.

    Those two concepts are not in any way contradictory. That you think they are contradictory is just more whining.

    I see black guys being asked by white guys if they're going to steal, I see black guys calling white guys that they asked for a cigarette "racist crackers" because they don't give them one. I see white and black guys calling latino guys "dirty" for no apparent reason. I see latino guys verbally harassing both white and black guys too.

    That's racism and xenophobia.

    Yeah, when poor people say shitty things to other poor people THAT is the kind of racism that really damages society.

    There are few things I hate more.

    Too bad your hate is so misplaced. It certainly is easy to be revolted by the simplistic and obvious, it doesn't require any critical thought at all and lets you feel like you are a proper good person. What really matters is when a black person, so poor that they have to bum a cigarette, calls some random white guy a "cracker" -- that is the kind of bigotry that must be stamped out!

    Good thing you are here to tell us coddled pissants what kind of free expression counts as bigotry and what doesn't.

    Saying you don't want to finance third world projects when the projects at home have issues to work on is expressing a valid point.

    It is a convenient cop-out. If you think the guy intended to donate to wikipedia before he read this story, then you must also think that every AC post about systemd here is also completely on topic.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @01:42AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @01:42AM (#120751)

    Saying you don't want to finance third world projects when the projects at home have issues to work on is expressing a valid point.

    By that logic he would never donate to wikipedia at all because any support of wikipedia also supports 3rd world users, or should donations only go to fund servers that block non-US ip addresses?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @02:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 28 2014, @02:11AM (#120755)

      There's a big difference between Wikipedia adding support for something that all users could potentially benefit from, and them basically paying the Internet bills of some Africans.