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Arthur T Knackerbracket has processed the following story:
Even a relatively small nuclear war would create a worldwide food crisis lasting at least a decade in which hundreds of millions would starve, according to our new modeling published in Nature Food.
In a nuclear war, bombs dropped on cities and industrial areas would start firestorms, injecting large amounts of soot into the upper atmosphere. This soot would spread globally and rapidly cool the planet.
Although the war might only last days or weeks, the impacts on Earth's climate could persist for more than ten years. We used advanced climate and food production models to explore what this would mean for the world's food supply.
[...] We simulated six different war scenarios, because the amount of soot injected into the upper atmosphere would depend on the number of weapons used.
The smallest war in our scenarios was a "limited" conflict between India and Pakistan, involving 100 Hiroshima-sized weapons (less than 3% of the global nuclear arsenal). The largest was a global nuclear holocaust, in which Russia and the United States detonate 90% of the world's nuclear weapons.
[...] Even under the smallest war scenario we considered, sunlight over global crop regions would initially fall by about 10%, and global average temperatures would drop by up to 1–2℃. For a decade or so, this would cancel out all human-induced warming since the Industrial Revolution.
In response, global food production would decrease by 7% in the first five years after a small-scale regional nuclear war. Although this sounds minor, a 7% fall is almost double the largest recorded drop in food production since records began in 1961. As a result, more than 250 million people would be without food two years after the war.
Unsurprisingly, a global nuclear war would be a civilization-level threat, leaving over five billion people starving.
[...] In a post-nuclear-war world, we expect global food distribution would cease entirely for several years, as exporting countries suspend trade and focus on feeding their own populations. This would make war-induced shortages even worse in food-importing countries, especially in Asia, Europe and the Middle East.
Our results point to a stark and clear conclusion: there is no such thing as a limited nuclear war, where impacts are confined to warring countries.
Our findings provide further support for the 1985 statement by U.S. President Ronald Reagan and Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev, reaffirmed by the current leaders of China, France, the U.K., Russia and the U.S. this year: "A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought."
Neil deGrasse Tyson's Star Talk podcast just did an episode on this scenario and provides some background to the aforementioned Reagan/Gorbachev statement.
Journal Reference:
Xia, L., Robock, A., Scherrer, K. et al. Global food insecurity and famine from reduced crop, marine fishery and livestock production due to climate disruption from nuclear war soot injection [open]. Nat Food 3, 586–596 (2022). DOI: 10.1038/s43016-022-00573-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 28 2022, @07:53PM (32 children)
Last I checked, that's not Russian territory - no business of theirs, right? And if Ukraine wasn't at war with those republics, there wouldn't be shelling. Not seeing a serious argument there.
So what? If Russia wasn't such a shitty country to begin with, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. And the shitstorm is better than being a Russian puppet and having that shitstorm happen to neighbors of Ukraine instead, like the Baltic states or Moldova with Ukrainian soldiers used as cannon fodder for Russian schemes.
Neither did Putin. My take is that this sad road is still the best one out there. A bunch of people will die, Putin will eventually leave power, and Russia will eventually come to its senses. We'll just have to see if it comes before or after some "limited" nuclear war.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 28 2022, @08:04PM (9 children)
The US has no territory in Ukraine or Russia - no business of ours, right?
Let's try to do better than "My side, right or wrong!"
Is there a new epidemic that I was unaware of? Politicians are suddenly coming to their senses? I've seen no evidence of any such thing, anywhere in the world.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 28 2022, @09:00PM (8 children)
Your argument not mine.
For glaring examples, Germany and Japan since the 1930s.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 28 2022, @09:15PM (7 children)
Nonsense. I threw your own argument right back at you. The US has no legitimate business in Ukraine, certainly not any more legitimate than Russia's interest in Ukraine.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @12:50AM
Sounds like a typical "not our business" argument from February 23 of this year.
(Score: 2) by quietus on Monday August 29 2022, @01:39PM (5 children)
Depends how upon you see the role of the largest economy of the world, the emitter of the world's reserve currency to which the rest of the monetary system is anchored.
View this system of nations of ours as a natural system, like a pack of wolves. If alpha wolf shows weakness, he will be attacked by others who want to take his position. That will create chaos and turmoil within the group, and a period of intense agressiveness among all the other members, trying to determine their new position within the group.
In this case, alpha wolf has shown a bit too much lenience (Chechnya, Georgia, Armenia, the Crim, Hong Kong, Xinjiang) towards two other wolves. The end result is more chaos, and more deaths to ordinary people.
You might not like to hear this as an American, seeing his or her relatives being shipped off to fight and die in foreign places, but that's where you are now, through historic coincidence: either Rome shows its strength, or it is burnt to the ground.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 29 2022, @02:07PM (4 children)
Yeah, that's pretty much the historical way of things. One empire after another, one kingdom after another, entire civilizations have come and gone.
Some of those empires have gone, simply because they overextended their power. Others have rotted from within. I think we have both of those traits. At present, there is no really strong rival that we need to fear, but the potential for an alliance against us is strong. A Russia-China-India hegemony would be unbeatable.
I won't pretend to know what the future holds, but the US-UK-EU hegemony may well be taking second place in the not-distant future, measured in decades.
However, nuclear arms change that old equation. I don't think we'll be burnt to the ground. There's a lot of reasonably comfortable room in second place when you can threaten to destroy any nation's capitol along with most of their military in a matter of minutes.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday August 30 2022, @01:07AM (3 children)
Let's name it. The goal of Russian operation in Ukraine is to end the US hegemony. They want to end unipolar world for multipolar one. Putin openly said that back in 2007, was getting ready since then, and yes, chose the best possible moment. It's WWIII we have coming, like it or not.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @02:59AM (2 children)
The irony here is that Russia demonstrates by this incompetent invasion that they are unworthy of being one of those poles. They already have a terrible economy. Now, they have a terrible military with terrible leadership too.
Unless, of course, it's not coming. Russia just doesn't have good follow through.
But even if he's serious about it, there's alternate outcomes. Maybe Putin will get booted and someone with a less ridiculous and paranoid viewpoint will take charge. Maybe they'll find that their nuclear forces are suffering from the same lack of attention to detail that nailed their invasion forces. Could make that WW3 real one sided.
And let's face it, we're already in a multipolar world, with Russia (at least as of present) still serving as one of those "poles". Insecurity does not a pole make.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday August 30 2022, @03:34AM (1 child)
75% of world's population did not join sanctions. As we speak, Russia has military drills with China and India. Russian economy is fine. It contracted 2% while payments for Russian exports doubled. Local business is booming taking over market of western companies that left. Rubble is the strongest currency in the world right now as payments for energy have to be in rubles.
It all may change, off course, given some time. We'll see...
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @01:07PM
How much trade does Russia have going on with that 75%?
To what end? It'll have no military significance in Ukraine.
It'll coast along gloriously until their economy collapses. The great irony here is that even in the absence of war, the Russian economy would be on the ropes. It's even worse now. And there's no point to a "strongest currency in the world", if you can't do anything with it, like buy stuff.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28 2022, @10:49PM (21 children)
It's on their border, and there is a high probability some of that Ukrainian shelling may have crossed over, all bets are off in your phony little "morality" play here. You really are quite the desktop warrior, eh?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @12:29AM (20 children)
In other words, you have no evidence that any of the alleged Ukrainian shelling crossed over the border into Russia. That indicates to me that you have a high probability of bluffing here.
Still looking for a competent foe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 29 2022, @05:06AM (19 children)
You have no evidence Putin was unprovoked, plenty of evidence was shown that he was, the 2014 coup for starters, you dismiss all sources aside from your tabloids out of hand, you just believe the comfortable lies. You are a victim of information warfare.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @05:18AM (18 children)
There's your complete inability to find a provocation.
Bullshit. The previous government was a Russian puppet and they were in the process of taking apart the democracy. A few days before the final coup, they banned public protests. Putin made a bet and lost it. Good riddance.
And a legitimate provocation for a Russian invasion? That's bullshit.
Sounds like you're projecting hard especially since you've never disputed the facts, just the sources.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 29 2022, @05:59AM (17 children)
You have to provide facts for me to dispute. All you do is parrot mass media lies, not facts. You really are the victim here.
(Score: 3, Touché) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @02:18PM (16 children)
Sigh:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 29 2022, @08:14PM (15 children)
A simple, but effective lie. The coup was financed, planned, executed by outsiders. Why do you continue to spread lies? You have yet to provide any real evidence to any of your claims, you just repeat propaganda
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @08:21PM (14 children)
The thing that makes it simple but effective also makes it not a lie - it's true.
Even if that were true, it doesn't make my claim false.
I noted that Yanukovych ran to Russia when he got kicked out. He's also doing the Quisling act [republicworld.com] now. And keep in mind that the whole Euromaidan mess started because he unexpectedly blew up negotiations with the EU on associate status for Ukraine. That didn't benefit anyone but a few Russians.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 29 2022, @08:57PM (8 children)
Ho hum.. Just another lie on your part...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday August 29 2022, @11:57PM (7 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 30 2022, @04:03AM (6 children)
Why? It's a wasted effort, you choose to believe your propaganda, while claiming, without knowing, all contrary info is enemy propaganda. It's ok, you are the victim here, this is how information warfare works
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @12:29PM (5 children)
Because we're not the only two people on the internet. Any other reader will notice that you continue, post after post to just trashtalk without saying a thing. Unless, of course, you change that behavior.
My view is that lack of anything is a blazing acknowledgement that your argument is crap.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 30 2022, @05:18PM (4 children)
Just proving you are full of it. That link you put up for me also proves it, and a few other people too, in perfect agreement with me. It's ok, you just see things as you want, not as they are, no biggie, just an amusing thing, keep up the good work
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @11:24PM (3 children)
I bet that aside from your small coterie of retards nobody else buys that argument.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 31 2022, @03:32AM (2 children)
:-) Very revealing.. Thank you!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 31 2022, @03:53AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 31 2022, @07:02PM
Oh, you can be assured, dear sir, we are... As always, thanks for the laughs
(Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Tuesday August 30 2022, @01:15AM (4 children)
Let's not forget that Yanukovych was elected twice. Elected, overthrown, elected again after a few cycles, and overthrown again. It looks to me as a well organized group of rioters against the will of the people.
What's really bad, the second time they used Nazi for the revolt. My mother was a Nazi death camp survivor and I have very short fuse for Nazi and people who use them. And Nuland who used them is running the same show as we speak.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @02:35AM (3 children)
Was he? There seems to be a claim [aljazeera.com] that the 2004 election was fraudulent in favor of Yanukovych - by the Ukrainian Supreme Court which annulled the election as a result.
Looks to me like a really terrible, divisive politician who's showing his true colors now by running psych ops for an invader. Your narrative just doesn't fit. You don't get repeated mass movement coups against strong, popular leaders. And those leaders don't turn around and betray their people by collaborating with a serious foe.
Even Nazis have a right to speak and have democratic representation.
Even if that were true, so what? Those Ukrainian nazis had nothing to do with the death camps. Even most German Nazis of the time didn't. And given your apologism for Stalin in this thread, you don't have a leg to stand on. He was a Hitler who got away with it.
Further, the person really using those nazis is Putin. The Nazis in Ukraine excuse is one seriously lazy piece of propaganda.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday August 30 2022, @03:02AM
Girl Scout cookies in Lviv. Dishes include brains of Russian Jewish politician. The drink is called "blood of Russian toddlers".
https://youtu.be/cduh7m3mm8o [youtu.be]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Tuesday August 30 2022, @03:13AM (1 child)
But I see your logic now.
West created Hitler because it needed to fight Stalin then Hitler turned on the west and it's Russian fault.
The US created Bin Laden to fight Soviets than he blew up WTC and sure it is Russia's fault.
Right now the US is creating Nazi Ukraine. One day they will turn and go after the West and it will be Russian fault as well.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 30 2022, @01:03PM
Let me guess, you're actually a member of Ukrainian intelligence and deliberately presenting a crap argument to undermine it? A person who is sincere and genuinely sees logic wouldn't have stated the above.
Let's pretend for a bit that you're sincere here and just fail to see logic. The first is just fact. Germany is part of the West and their people and powers did greatly support Hitler and the Nazis due to the notorious anti-communist stance of the Nazis. That part is true, but in a rather trivial way. There was no smoke filled room going "Oh, we need to create some nasty people and blame it on the Russians."
As I noted, the USSR did host the German military and give it a great deal of help in circumventing the conditions of the Treaty of Versailles. They also partitioned Poland. And paid for all that years later when the natural consequence of Operation Barbarossa happened. Finally, the Stalin mistake was an inevitable consequence of such a paranoid yet gullible person like Stalin in charge. He was more concerned about rooting out and murdering imaginary enemies, crippling the leadership of the Soviet military in the process, than in defending the USSR from its worst enemies ever.
My take is that Stalin was extremely lucky that the Nazis were even worse for Russian citizens. If Hitler had been perceived as the lesser of two evils, you likely would be speaking German now.
As to the Al Qaeda attacks, nobody blamed them on the Russians. That's just your ridiculous fantasy.
Where are the nazis? The narrative fails. As I noted, you can't find many of them.
With what army? Nazis aren't magic, able to raise professional armies out of dirt with the wave of a wand. The German approached required more than a decade of hard and very secretive preparation (which as I noted above required a lot of help from outside Germany with the USSR being the primary supporter) even before Hitler and his Nazis were a factor! That's things like technology development, preserving and building education and skills of viable high and mid level officers, and developing new military doctrines to use this rapidly changing technology.
This just isn't a serious argument. Ukrainian nazis just aren't going to be running rampant.
And I think it misses the biggest point of all. Namely, that Putin seems to create these problems with every region he touches: neonazis in Ukraine and Russia, jihadists in Syria, etc. Maybe it's time for you to think here. Who really are the nazis here? Putin just conducted a classic Nazi-style invasion of another country right up to the lazy causus belli lies.