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from the breaking-up-is-hard-to-do dept.
The USA has been making life difficult for Americans residing abroad; FATCA causes plenty of problems; but so does citizenship-based taxation. The IRS and Treasury department have made the reporting and taxation more onerous, and stepped up their collection efforts.
The result should be a surprise to no one: more and more Americans are handing in their US citizenship. Total numbers are unavailable (the lists published by the government include only a portion of the total), but undisputed is the fact that the numbers are increasing rapidly.
Having lots of citizens want to leave is...embarrassing. One solution could be to review the policies leading to people to hand in their citizenship. Another would be to make the fee unaffordable, especially for people living on second- or third-world incomes. It's obvious, of course, which route the USA has chosen: It now costs $2350 to hand in your US passport; more than 20 times the international average.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Wednesday December 03 2014, @03:20PM
I don't agree with the submitter that having a lot of citizens want to leave is embarrassing. TFA doesn't really go into the reasons for the departures, other than an offhand mention of one billionaire who left for tax reasons.
If you're a US citizen and you feel that the benefits you receive from the Bill of Rights and all the government services, not to mention membership in American society, are not worth the costs you pay in taxes, regulatory compliance, and other legal obligations, to the point where you want to opt out of our particular social contract, then I wish you the best of luck in your new homeland.
If people were leaving in large numbers because they can obtain a better standard of living elsewhere, that would be slightly more embarrassing. I happen to believe several other countries offer comparable or better living conditions than the US, but the choice is so complicated and multi-faceted it depends heavily on your personal situation and values.
What would be much more embarrassing than someone wanting to leave would the Federal government trying to interfere with and penalize that person. It would be almost as if the government didn't regard US citizenship as a good thing.
Though I would point out that TFA does not attribute that motive to the fee increase. All it says is:
No preventative or punitive motive is attributed by TFA to the fee increase. Submitter seems to have introduced that without showing evidence. But hey, this is Soylent, why worry about unbiased summaries when we can create another opportunity to bitch about the US government?
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by hoochiecoochieman on Wednesday December 03 2014, @04:00PM
Come on, this is the biggest piece of bullshit I've ever read in my life. Don't they have computers? Revoking someone's citizenship should cost the government of any developed country a few cents.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03 2014, @06:00PM
It costs money to setup spying on ex-pats.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Wednesday December 03 2014, @06:49PM
I don't think you've considered how complex and obtuse the Federal bureaucracy is. Sure, cancelling a citizen's passport is cheap, but first the consulate has to verify their taxes have been paid, check that there are no outstanding warrants for the person's arrest, notify the Social Security Administration, Selective Service, and that's just off the top of my head. I can easily envision the process costing a tens of man-hours all told.
If you actually expect all the hundreds of Federal agencies to have fully interoperable records and data systems, then ... you must not be from around here.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday December 03 2014, @04:04PM
If you're a US citizen and you feel that the benefits you receive from the Bill of Rights and all the government services, not to mention membership in American society, are not worth the costs you pay in taxes
You mean those Bill of Right benefits they seem to be doing their best to erode every day? Maybe we want a government that actually does what its damn founding document promises to.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday December 04 2014, @02:51AM
and lets not forget the part where taxing a persons income is also a violation of the Constitution. There are provisions for the government to do it in times of war but the rest of the time the only taxes that had to be paid was on the land you owned.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 04 2014, @03:17PM
Interesting. Got any good links handy for further reading? I was aware the Constitution Party wants to repeal income tax but not really the logics behind it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_rebellion [wikipedia.org]
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03 2014, @04:30PM
I agree, if you don't like the taxes or laws here, I'll help pay for the one way airline ticket outta here. Just don't come back. Especially those morons that think thugs shouldn't be arrested or shot by police just because they aren't the same skin color.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday December 03 2014, @04:37PM
The Current US Federal Bill of Rights:
1: You have the right to say anything you want as long as we agree with it. Otherwise, you may be deprived of your life without trial or any form of recourse (Al Awlaki).
...
4: You have the right to privacy and the right to be free from unreasonable searches or seizures. Note however that anything the Federal Government wants is de facto reasonable and lawful irrespective of your appearance of or actual innocence, and all of your motions, communications, and private information (like medical records) is subject to Federal monitoring. Also, if Federal Law Enforcement agencies need extra money, they can seize your property through civil forfeiture for no reason whatsoever and that too is reasonable and lawful.
5: Before being punished, you have a right to a fair trial. A "fair trial" means that the Feds can bully and bulldoze you beyond your ability to actually pay for that trial, and further, that a fair trial can mean a secret trial in which you are not told of the offense, not given an opportunity to defend yourself, and indeed, not even told that the trial is happening, from which there is no appeal, and once completed you will be immediately drone bombed.
6: You have the right to a speedy and public impartial trial, to confront the witnesses against you, to be informed of the crime you are charged with, and to have assistance of counsel. A speedy and public trial comporting with the 6th amendment, as that phrase is defined by the US Federal Government, means a secret trial in which you are not appraised of the charges against you, the evidence against you, are not allowed any representation, and you are not even informed of the fact of the trial.
7: You have the right to a jury trial. The US Federal Government reserves the right to hand select the jury, in secret, during secret trials.
8: Excessive bail and fines are prohibited. It is defined as not excessive if a Federal LEO needs extra money in which case all of your property is subject to civil forfeiture without reason.
9: Enumerating these rights does not mean you don't have other rights. Remember however, that the rights of Federal agencies trumps all other rights.
10: The powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government belong to the states. Just as the Federal government defines "imminent" to mean "perhaps, some time off in the future", in this instance, the word "states" is defined as "Federal Government."
(Score: 1) by KiloByte on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:23AM
Not sure why you skipped 2nd, that's the amendment your govt holds in biggest contempt beside 4th.
Ceterum censeo systemd esse delendam.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday December 03 2014, @04:53PM
What if your newly adopted homeland has the freedoms of the Bill of Rights and great government services? I'm not an expat, but if I were, I would probably pick a country to live in in part for those freedoms and services. Sure, you could live in Guyana or Indonesia or Jordan, but I'd think more Americans would be happier living in places like Sweden, France, and Australia.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03 2014, @06:06PM
"I'd think more Americans would be happier living in places like Sweden, France, and Australia."
Except of course those that whine about how high taxes are in the US...
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Wednesday December 03 2014, @06:38PM
I guess people read the wrong intent into that paragraph. Seriously, France, Sweden, Iceland, Canada, and many other countries all offer comparable benefits to their citizens, so you may very well feel you're better off there. I shopped around myself and concluded that staying in the US is the best option for me, but you may very well come to a different conclusion.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.