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It's not a war, but a Special Military Operation. And that operation goes so well, it is now time not to call a general mobilisation, but only a partial mobilisation.
On Wednesday September 21, at 09:15h, Russian President Vladimir Putin made the announcement that was rumored since days: all members of the Russian Army's reserve, as well as anybody who has ever served in the Russian military, are called upon to do their duty in the Special Military Operation, fighting the Nazi-Ukrainian forces.
Refusing to report will result in 15 years prison. Skipping out during service will result in 15 years prison. And surrendering to the enemy without being incapacitated will result in 15 years prison, as will not trying to flee from a POW camp.
The move is not unexpected. The Ukrainian counter-offensive triggered the first comments on Russian television about the need for mobilisation, and it was just waiting until Russian regional elections had passed, last week. On top of that, the recent meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation didn't go to plan, apparently.
First there was India's Modi publicly stating that this ain't a time for war, and that he had repeatedly asked to stop the whole thing. Then there was a falling out over the same subject with both Turkey and Kazakhstan, to which Putin apparently reacted very agressively. All combined might perhaps explain the rather confused press conference afterwards.
Immediately after the end of the SCO Summit, one Nikolai Patrushev stepped on a plane to meet with Chinese colleagues to discuss strategic stability and public security and law and order. He returned after 2 days, on the 19th. On the 20th, a statement by Putin was announced for the evening, but that was postponed for reasons unknown.
In a first phase, 300,000 reservists are being called up but, as Russia's Kommersant business newspaper noted, the total number of people who will be called up is secret, hence open to modification.
Do I need to add that it all ended with the threat to use nuclear weapons?
Official announcement here.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @03:12PM (44 children)
Oh, noes! That old "domino effect" talking point! If one country falls, the next on in line has to fall! Slippery slope, much?
Let's look at reality, instead. Russia is pitted against the might of the west right now, and both sides are suffering badly. Neither side is seeing the effects that they expected. Russia doesn't have the freaking STRENGTH to start another war - they are reaching deep right now for personnel. The West, on the other hand, has set itself up for a long, long, cold winter, in which we should expect casualties. I use the term "casualties", because we are waging an economic war, and those people will die as a result of that war.
The only major advantage the West has over Russia, is manpower. If Nato commits to fighting in Ukraine (and/or whichever country you imagine Russia will invade next) we can outnumber Russian troops in short order. Things look bad for Russia - except Russia has promised to play it's trump card - nukes.
Everyone needs to decide whether Ukraine is worth nuclear war. I say it's not.
Keep in mind, all the current problems in Ukraine were instigated by the West. We invested billions after billions to ensure there would be a coup in Ukraine. We started this shit, but I don't want to see how it ends. Whether Nato or Russia ends it, it's going to be catastrophic, for all of us.
Fuck it. Stop sending billions in military aid to Ukraine every other day. Stop giving them intel. Just stop it. I don't give a small rat's ass that Ukrainians might live under Russian rule. The only people benefitting from any of this, are the arms dealers, and the billionaires who have invested so many billions into the situation. Fuck all of them.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @04:08PM (8 children)
Russia did not have the freaking strength to start THIS war. Had not stopped them.
You cannot expect rational actions from people who already behave irrationally (and/or do not have the continued existence of Russia among their actual objectives). Besides, Russian nukes do not magically poof and disappear if you feed Ukraine to Putin, nor if you feed him Poland, nor if you feed him Alaska or California or whatever else. And threatening you with them again and again once you bow to the threat, will be rational, even. Your cowardice will be your downfall.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @04:28PM (7 children)
You're making just a little sense. But, it's very little because Poland is already under the NATO umbrella. You want to start over with better examples?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 21 2022, @05:39PM (1 child)
(Score: 0, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @07:23PM
Calexit, coming soon.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @06:20PM (4 children)
Do you believe the "NATO umbrella" is a special magic spell to shield your arse from Putin's nukes? No, Virginia, it isn't. It is merely a complement of similar nukes, and the ONLY thing it is good for, is making sure Putin gets a retaliatory nuke or ten onto his bunker if he dares launch one to kill you. It is NOT a protection; the protection is Putin's FEAR of that nuclear retaliation.
If Putin has cause not to fear you, then your virgin arse is bare and ready to be fucked hard. Possibly with an umbrella, or a mop, or something else creative. It is how it works.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @07:22PM (3 children)
Well, now. Let me see here. Actually, allow me to turn the question around on you. Do you believe that treaties are important? Have not the various heads of state from most of the civilized world made much of treaties, agreements, etc ad nauseum?
The fact is, there are no formal treaties between NATO nations and Ukraine to defend Ukraine from - - - anything. If the Martians invade Ukraine tomorrow, we aren't obligated to come to Ukraine's aid. If the creatures inside of the hollow earth invade Ukraine, same thing. If 20th dimensional beings invade, ditto the above.
Poland, however, being a member of NATO, actually has treaties and agreements in place. If Poland is invaded by whomever, whatever, Poland has every right to expect that NATO comes to Poland's defense.
Let us reinforce that: Poland is a member of NATO and the EU, Ukraine is not a member of NATO or the EU. We are obligated to defend Poland, we have no obligation to defend Ukraine.
Actually, if you want to be honest, there is no protection from nukes. Once launched, you're fucked, no matter who you are, where you are, or how many treaties purport to protect you.
But, do go on. Tell us how backing Russia into a corner is protecting us.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @08:35PM (2 children)
As to treaties, Ukraine believed the Budapest memorandum meant something when it handed away the ex-Soviet nukes. And creative reading can be applied to NATO treaties just the same as it was applied to Anglo-Polish and Franco-Polish alliance treaties when Poland got invaded in 1939.
Treaties mean nothing when their parties are too dishonest or cowardly to do what they promised.
As to "backing Russia into a corner", can you tell us WHAT place we must give Putin, to be guaranteed from his declaring it a "corner" too? A jail cell would give such a guarantee, a shallow grave can too, and nothing else can. Because Russia is worse than "in a corner"; it is in a deep, deep hole, put there by Putin and his gang of thieves who near totally destroyed all the non-extractive industries in the country, and nothing but their removal from power will stop their digging that hole ever deeper. No amount of extra territory to plunder will ever be enough for that "economic model", it is a cancerous ulcer on the face of the world.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @12:00AM (1 child)
If treaties mean anything, that one would. It also has the feature that Russia guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity.
That's the huge thing missed with this argument. When you're dealing with a paranoid dictator, they have really high maintenance when it comes to this sort of thing. There's always something threatening or scary.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @02:01AM
We voted him out a couple of years ago. Think he'll run again?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday September 21 2022, @04:48PM (1 child)
I get what you're saying, and I wish we could just roll over and ignore the problem too.
Unfortunately for us, history shows us that appeasement doesn't end the problem. It just kicks the can down the road into the future, when the mess has simply gotten bigger and even less manageable. If Putin is allowed to take Ukraine he won't stop there.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @07:50AM
Considering that they are and have been slowly taking over parts of Georgia, their repeated talk about reuniting the entire Russian Empire, and that they accidentally announced plans to take Moldova when they though they were winning, this isn't even some theoretical argument about what a megalomaniacal dictator might plan on doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @04:59PM (23 children)
Yes, let's take a look at reality.
Really, both sides are suffering badly? We in "the west" are suffering badly? How so? Out here in Albuquerque, about the only noticeable effect this has had on me so far is that I pay a bit more at the gas pump and the grocery store. Methinks your estimation of how much we are suffering is a bit overwrought. The people who are truly feeling the pain are living through a war in Ukraine. When are you going to start feeling some concern for them?
Casualties? I expect my gas and electric bills to go up. Thankfully, I am not expecting any casualties in my home or the homes of my neighbors. Where the hell do you live that you are expecting "casualties"?
Again, your rhetoric is much too overwrought. People are going to be feeling pain at the gas pump and the grocery store. They will be paying higher prices for power and gas this winter. Not fun. But I am not foreseeing "casualties".
Yes, we have already noted that you are a fine little Putin stooge. I'm sure he is proud of your propaganda efforts.
Bullshit!!! No one held a gun to Putin's head and told him he must invade Ukraine. He decided this entirely on his own, against the advice of many in his own country and around the world. This is all on him. No one else.
Hmmmmm. Maybe my recollection is flawed but I was under the impression that a few months back you were complaining that the USA was not sending military aid to Ukraine fast enough. Did your handlers in the Kremlin not approve of that? Just curious.
Yes, as I've already noted, you make a fine Putin stooge. I'm sure he's proud of your efforts.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @05:28PM (22 children)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @12:43AM (18 children)
Let's consider that:
A: The Ukrainian public. The conspiracy spin neglects that there were months of massive public protests. It wouldn't happen merely with magic Koch brother or Soros cooties.
A: Russia. I guess we're supposed to ignore that Russian interference and eight years of military support by Russia. It would have been over in August or September 2014 otherwise.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 22 2022, @01:33AM (6 children)
*yawn*
Boring.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @01:46AM
And now for something completely different.
New York state files huge lawsuit against Trump for systematic fraud [wsws.org]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @03:24AM (3 children)
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday September 22 2022, @04:44AM (2 children)
Translation: You've long ago made your mind up, and are unwilling to look at other perspectives or evidence.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @07:26AM
One of the pretexts of MAGA seems to be that for America to return to its gold era of the 1950s-70s, Cold War 2.0 needs a strong villain.
What a pity Ukrainians are then merely collateral damage in your far right fantasy.
Why do you keep supporting a genocidal cunt like Putin?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @12:01PM
I'll note, for example, that you've never provided evidence for significant Koch brothers or Soros involvement in the 2014 Euromaidan revolution. I gather there's some crude statements by US officials that implies material US support, perhaps even that CIA support that is alleged. Meanwhile, when you look at the timeline [wikipedia.org], there's plenty of large protests throughout the saga. Then and now, there's a lot of effort by the locals that's being completely dismissed because foreign involvement is exaggerated.
My guess is that this is merely a bit of propaganda to invalidate Euromaidan and of course, blame the Great Satan. If it's just CIA/Soros/Koch brothers, then the revolution doesn't count and the US started it all. That's been your line too, right?
All I can say, is that the Ukrainians are pretty eager for a foreign-led coup. I think it's worth comparing this to a genuine CIA-led coup, that of Afghanistan. As long as there were US military providing firepower on the ground, Afghanistan was stable. The moment the US left, the Taliban took over. There wasn't even a slight effort at preserving the government.
While it is obvious that Ukraine would have done far worse without the massive supply of foreign weapons, they've fought this war themselves - not US forces with the locals watching on. They defeated that decapitation strike and have repeatedly shown strong initiative, such as repeatedly taking advantage of Russian mistakes and weaknesses.
As to perspectives, flat Earth is also a perspective. Evidence is what makes the perspective worth considering. There's an AC muttering about "unfounded war mongering propaganda", but they won't provide even the slightest support for the allegation.
Last time you provided a serious perspective to your argument in a journal, we had the typical one-sided arguments [soylentnews.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @05:10PM
It hasn't escaped my notice that whenever you are losing an argument you suddenly declare it "boring". I wouldn't be surprised if others have noticed this too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @02:08AM (9 children)
Again you merely repeat unfounded war mongering propaganda
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @02:14AM (6 children)
Putin is the war monger.
People are being arrested on the streets of Russia in protest at being conscripted.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @02:37AM
> People are being arrested on the streets of Russia in protest at being conscripted.
Yes, came here to say the same thing. BBC reports over a thousand detained/arrested already, mostly in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. It might take a little while to verify, but there appear to be documentary photos/videos from private cell phones confirming this.
Also various reports of airliners full of men leaving Russia. One report seemed clever, Google reports a spike in air ticket purchase requests from Russia to Turkey and other countries that accept Russians with no special visa.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @03:21PM (4 children)
Of course, no-one in America has ever been arrested for protesting conscription or dodging the draft.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @05:26PM (3 children)
Not sure what point you are trying to make. Protests in the USA against the Vietnam war built in intensity through the 1960s and were eventually successful in the early 1970s. That war became so unpopular that the government eventually withdrew (and not very gracefully, if there is such a thing in war).
Things happen faster today with social media making it much easier to gather people for demonstrations on short notice, etc.
Reports (BBC) suggest that a dozen or so of the recent Russian demonstrators that were detained were then conscripted, nearly "on the spot". I don't recall if the USA ever tried that trick?
(Score: 3, Informative) by quietus on Friday September 23 2022, @06:53AM (2 children)
The source of these reports might have been Kommersant* (a newspaper in Russia, comparable to the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times), which reported people being arrested and, upon release, immediately being served with their mobilisation papers. There's no doubt they'll get 'additional training' before being sent to the front line. If you were still in doubt, this clearly shows that mobilisation is not going to be "partial".
In other words, in Putin Russia they don't bother anymore with sending you to prison -- Stalin is spinning in his coffin for not having thought about that himself.
This was predicted, btw, by a Russian journalist, who suggested that could be one of the main reasons for declaring mobilisation -- put any protests down:
As a final note, the number of 300,000 conscripts. Izvestia reported yesterday that that number could rise to a million, with especially the people younger than 30 being targeted. As Russia has an obligatory military duty, effectively everyone healthy has served in the military, and can be called up. Also reported by Izvestia (or Ria Novosti) is that the current crop of conscripts will be receiving their mobilisation order once they've finished their conscription.
*: I would link to the original article, but yandex' translation doesn't work on the desktop currently (while the translation app still does its thing).
(Score: 2) by quietus on Friday September 23 2022, @09:08AM
Also people who were discharged from Russia's obligatory draft at age 18 due to health reasons, can be mobilised, according to the Military Kommissar of the Irkutsk region, Yevgheny Fuzhenko, reports Kommersant.
(Score: 2) by quietus on Friday September 23 2022, @02:58PM
The number has now been upped to 1.2 million [meduza.io] people, mainly from rural areas.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @03:28AM
Well, since you're not uttering a word in rebuttal, I see no reason to care about your post. If you wish to disagree, then provide disagreement.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday September 22 2022, @03:31AM
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 22 2022, @06:18PM
Hahah, a Koch (((Soros))) teamup is what Runaway just proposed........ with a straight face.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @04:58PM
Perhaps you missed this in my previous comment:
So, when are you going to start showing some concern for the people of Ukraine? Do you still stand by your comment that you "don't give a small rat's ass that Ukrainians might live under Russian rule"?
I will just note that Putin could solve that problem in a matter of an hour or two with just a few phone calls.
No, I accept what I am seeing with my own eyes and what I am hearing with my own ears. In your previous comment you said that "we" in the west were suffering. You said that "we" should be anticipating casualties soon. I'm not yet seeing signs of any of that. The most significant change is that I was paying more for fuel at the gas pump, although gas prices have been coming down in recent weeks. I am also paying somewhat more for groceries. But NO casualties in my neighborhood, so far. And I don't really expect any casualties here in the heartland to come from this. By contrast, the ones who are really suffering are the Ukrainians. They really are suffering casualties. As in, mass graves types of casualties. Don't you think we should be concerned about that?
If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, the people of Ukraine got rid of a Russian-backed lackey. Why do you object to the Ukrainians deciding how they are governed (and by whom)?
I believe that is Russian-backed militias. Pay attention!
<rolls eyes>And you accuse me of delving into "stupid"? You have got a hell of lot of nerve!
Neither is it the paranoid fantasy you are portraying it to be, Vlad.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 26 2022, @05:33AM (1 child)
Errmmm... why have you stopped that late? Remember that poked face, bankrolled by Soros </s>? [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday September 26 2022, @11:46AM
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @07:00PM (2 children)
Runaway Go Fuck Yourself.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @07:24PM (1 child)
Obviously, Runaway wins, you lose.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @08:14PM
Oblivously, Runaway does win the idiot Ruskie shill contest. How could he not? But even if he wins, he looses. So Fuck Off, Runaway. Before you make it even more plain that you are an ignorant moron.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DannyB on Wednesday September 21 2022, @08:42PM (4 children)
I would love to hear the explanation of that from your boss Putin.
Countries existed peacefully. They attended to their own defense. Did not threaten their neighbors.
While Republicans can get over Trump's sexual assaults, affairs, and vulgarity; they cannot get over Obama being black.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 21 2022, @09:35PM (3 children)
Just fuck off Danny Boy.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @10:27PM
Keep sucking Vlad's cock, Putin shill.
Get your head out of your ass.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 21 2022, @10:37PM
Obviously, Danny Boy wins, you lose.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 22 2022, @04:50PM
You are such a whiny baby! Trump is a loser, you are a loser, no amount of bullshit will ever make up for your poor choicea. Even janrinok is tired of your racist rightwing craziness, but he is too protective of rightwing snowflakes so he continues tolerating you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 26 2022, @05:16AM
6 more months. This is all Europe needs to solve its dependency on Russian gas.
After that, it will be only the graininess and Russians to suffer from Putin's foolhardiness.