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A Debian user has recently discovered that systemd prevents the skipping of fsck while booting:
With init, skipping a scheduled fsck during boot was easy, you just pressed Ctrl+c, it was obvious! Today I was late for an online conference. I got home, turned on my computer, and systemd decided it was time to run fsck on my 1TB hard drive. Ok, I just skip it, right? Well, Ctrl+c does not work, ESC does not work, nothing seems to work. I Googled for an answer on my phone but nothing. So, is there a mysterious set of commands they came up with to skip an fsck or is it yet another flaw?
One user chimed in with a hack to work around the flaw, but it involved specifying an argument on the kernel command line. Another user described this so-called "fix" as being "Pretty damn inconvenient and un-discoverable", while yet another pointed out that the "fix" merely prevents "systemd from running fsck in the first place", and it "does not let you cancel a systemd-initiated boot-time fsck which is already in progress."
Further investigation showed that this is a known bug with systemd that was first reported in mid-2011, and remains unfixed as of late December 2014. At least one other user has also fallen victim to this bug.
How could a severe bug of this nature even happen in the first place? How can it remain unfixed over three years after it was first reported?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @02:45AM
I can't believe what has happened to Debian, and Linux in general.
I first started using Linux after Windows 95 kept crapping out on me. Linux was better in so many ways. It was stable! It had great filesystems! It performed better! And it didn't cost me anything, other than some time to set it up and learn how to use it!
Linux used to make me better off. But today? Linux is a fucking joke. It's inferior to Windows and OS X, I'm sad to say.
Why would anyone want to use Linux when they're subjected to systemd, or GNOME 3, or any of that other crap that's ruining the Linux experience? Why?
(Score: 2) by zeigerpuppy on Sunday December 21 2014, @03:22AM
That's the great thing about a free OS. Don't use systemd if you don't want, you are not forced into a particular mix of programs.
If you don't like the choices made, switch to a different distro. Or even compile and change programs yourself. These are things you cannot do with windows or OS X.
There will certainly be forks without systemd, in the meantime security updated are still valid for another 18 months at least (Debian wheezy).
Having said that, I like pre 10.10 OS X as a workstation OS (with macports) but would never use it as a server.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @03:26AM
I'd used Debian for years. What other Linux distro works just as well as Debian, but doesn't come with systemd? Gentoo might be an option, but I'm not convinced that it won't get systemdified at some point. I feel more confident in thinking that Slackware won't ever offer systemd, but Slackware is a fossil. I want a relatively modern experience, but without wasting my time waiting for shit to compile, and without having to configure every single little thing manually. FreeBSD is the only option I can see, but it isn't Linux.
(Score: 2) by novak on Sunday December 21 2014, @06:33AM
Ok, I have to take issue with this. Partially because I like slackware, but also partially because you don't seem to think through your own argument.
You want, apparently, debian exactly. Except no systemd. So... Use devuan?
Also, wanting "debian exactly" but not systemd gets more contradictory every year. Debian has been riddled with poorly thought-out crapware like gnome3 and pulse for the last several years, and that's EXACTLY why systemd is now their init system. They follow popularity over quality. Every new release of debian has been measurably worse in code quality, well, at least since five.
So now you still want that, except this latest action is just over the line. Well, that's the direction they are headed. Towards worse code. So if you lose systemd, then the next thing they do probably sucks even more (not sure how that's possible, but they'll swing it somehow), and you have the same problem all over again.
And then you look at one distro that doesn't force crap on users, instead choosing to use whatever Patrick feels is actually best in stead of blindly "welp, the redhat PR team says it's great, so we'll go with it." And you dismiss that distro as a relic. Guess what: It might not seem "modern" to you but it's actually standing up for what users want, which seems to be exactly your problem with debian. I'm sorry you had to lose your distro, but maybe it's time to stand with people who will stand with you, instead of hoping to latch on to the easiest to use software like a remora.
There are more distros out there without systemd than slackware, find one you like and make it work.
novak
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @10:12AM
> There are more distros out there without systemd than slackware,
please list them. a grateful public awaits your reply.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @02:38PM
We can't actually use Devuan until a release is actually available. So you can fuck off with that suggestion.
And systemd infects Debian these days. In the past, I could install and run my Debian systems completely without using Lennart's or GNOME's shitty software. That's no longer the case. Now it is forced up me.
Yeah, we want Debian without systemd back. It worked fine for us. We don't need this systemd bullshit.
The only reason Slackware is "immune" to systemd is because Slackware is still stuck in 1998, for crying out loud! By your reasoning, the shitty HP-UX workstation I used in the early 1990s is "modern", too!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday December 21 2014, @07:38PM
Debian Wheezy does NOT use systemd - and will be supported for quite a while yet. Use Debian - it is simple, and you can stop complaining about the quality of a release that hasn't yet happened. Oh, you mean that you have already switched to Jessie and forgot that it hasn't even finished its development cycle yet? Well, perhaps you ought to think long and hard about what you want from your system and then choose the appropriate release.
Furthermore, even Jessie allows you to remove systemd and continue to use initd. Nobody is forcing you to use systemd!
(Score: 2) by novak on Monday December 22 2014, @06:19AM
We can't actually use Devuan until a release is actually available. So you can fuck off with that suggestion.
Yeah, I guess they don't plan to release until around the time a new debian stable comes out, in the mean time you can use debian 7, which has no systemd.
Yeah, we want Debian without systemd back. It worked fine for us. We don't need this systemd bullshit.
As do more than a few others. My point is that debian started dying years ago but no one could be bothered to notice then. It's only after the devs have delivered the final, killing blow to debian that people are starting to realize what happened.
Slackware is still stuck in 1998
No, it's not. At all, in any way. I assume you're either an idiot or haven't tried it if you say that. Slackware is a quality modern system, incorporating essentially all the same software as debian.
By your reasoning, the shitty HP-UX workstation I used in the early 1990s is "modern", too!
Ok, so, first, you're comparing hardware and software, which means you're either too angry or too stupid to think logically. Breathe. Second, slackware 14.1 is more up to date than debian stable. Just because you haven't bothered to try to understand something doesn't make it antiquated. Stop waving your lower jaw around like that and dissing the few good systems left.
novak
(Score: 2) by present_arms on Sunday December 21 2014, @07:56PM
PCLinuxOS runs as stable as Debian, (I've ran both still do pclinuxos) no systemd shite for me for me :D
http://trinity.mypclinuxos.com/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @04:27AM
Slackware is about the only distro that does not use systemd. You don't have much choice any more. Stop contributing to Debhat, and they may get the message, or arrogantly stick to systemd.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday December 21 2014, @03:33AM
Because people may not want to dance to the tune of Win8/Win10. Win8 already does everything in its power to convince you to use your MS email for a login, and then to use MS services for everything that you do on the Internet. Win7 was the last release of Windows that was made "for the customer." Following releases are made for Microsoft, not for you. That's why you are given the bland, flat, pastel interface that is hard on your eyes - because it is good for Microsoft's bank account, as simpler decorations do not require a complex GPU.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @03:37AM
What you're saying is self contradictory. On one hand you say that the Windows 8+ experience is bad, which it is, without any doubt. Yet all of the major modern Linux distros give you such a similar experience in most ways. If I want to avoid Windows 8+, why would I use something else that tries so hard to give such a similar experience? Just because I don't want to stick a screwdriver into my scrotum doesn't mean that I'm somehow better off if I stick a rusty nail into my scrotum instead.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday December 21 2014, @04:16AM
There are many distros that work for me. Shortage of Linux distros is not something that anyone, ever complained about. In worst case you can always hack one, or compile your own [gentoo.org], or make a new one from scratch. In the latter case it's a lot of work, but if the demand is real (and not just inside of your head) then you will have a good team to do this in a reasonable time. The major difference with Windows is that you can do it, both technically and legally.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @04:22AM
I don't have time to "hack" on my own distro, nor to roll one from scratch. I don't want to wait six months for Gentoo to compile on my Thinkpad. I don't want to use Slackware, and feel like I'm back in 1996. All I want is what Debian was a couple of years ago: a distro that was reliable, but still did all of the hard work for me, with an init system that just plain worked. In fact, Debian today would be perfect for me, if it didn't come infected with systemd. I'm not going to just use an old version of Debian, either, because I want to be able to easily use new versions of Chromium, and I want to make sure I get other security updates, too. There is a big shortage of good Linux distros today, now that almost all of them have gone stupid with systemd. Gentoo doesn't cut it. Slackware is ancient. Other than that, there's no good Linux distro. Hell, the whole point of using a distro in the first place is so that it's developers and package maintainers do the hard stuff so I don't have to! It totally defeats the purpose of using a distro if I have to start hacking on it just to make it barely usable!
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Sunday December 21 2014, @01:30PM
Doing some of your research for you, some options:
* PCLinuxOS [pclinuxos.com]
* Crux [crux.nu]
* as GP mentioned, Slackware still works, and has been kept quite up-to-date.
None of them have been showing any signs of adopting systemd.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @08:01PM
"All I want is..."
Translated:
- run the latest and greatest,
- have the system magically be to my tastes, including the way low-level processes operate, even though I don't code or use the system at a low level,
- not contribute to it,
- not pay a dime for it.
Apparently, given how many people are complaining while explicitly stating they do not want to contribute, it actually has already been The Year Of The Linux Desktop.
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Monday December 22 2014, @04:15PM
Right now I'm still running debian on my desktop and laptop, and not a systemd lib in sight. In the future, there will be forks without systemd. The world is not ending.
I agree it is sad, though, to see so many quality distros making such a terrible choice. It's inconceivable to me. How anyone who knows anything about UNIX can think this bloated crapware at PID 1 is a good idea is beyond me.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday December 21 2014, @04:40AM
Your error is a false premise, Linux [slackware.org] does not include systemd, nor GNOME.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday December 21 2014, @07:58AM
Fortunately, in my testing, I found that I can install Debian Jessie with sysV init, xfce4 as the desktop and btrfs as the root filesystem. It's a shame I have to use expert mode and shell out a couple times during the install but at least I can do it. I'm hoping Devuan will pick up the ball from there.
So that's how I can stay with Linux.
(Score: 2) by morgauxo on Monday December 22 2014, @02:41PM
I use Linux. I don't use Systemd. I don't use Gnome.