This is a thorough once-over giving the lie to the "conservatives'" self-serving bullshit squealing that "Butbutbutbutbut if you don't tolerate my intolerance you're a hypocrite!" The short version, as put forth in the article, is this: tolerance is a peace treaty, not a suicide pact.
Put another way, it's social technology, just like laws. It allows us, in an ever-more-connected global society, to exist and function. Like a treaty it covers those, and only those, who are party to it.
This means that if you're a genocidal fucking psychopath then no, Virginia, we do not have to "tolerate" your unhinged ramblings. You are cancer in the body politic. You have gleefully ripped your human card to shreds and dropped the pieces in an incinerator, cackling like a hyena on PCP at how you have "owned the libs." You have placed yourselves outside the treaty. We are not obligated to put up with your shit.
tl;dr: if you can't behave like a civilized human being, don't be surprised when you get treated like a rabid animal. Read and be better, or don't, it's your choice, but don't bitch when you get your find-outs.
I think that last line, whether intended or not, demonstrates a large part of the folly of the whole argument. One's opinion of what is intolerance can be enormously skewed. For a glaring real world example (which eventually drove Popper's efforts in the first place), Adolph Hitler's first known antisemitic writing [wikipedia.org] (a letter [multimedia.jp.dk] to a German soldier explaining Hitler's take on the "Jewish Question" while Hitler was working for the German army's propaganda department) already shows an extreme detachment from reality.
[...] As a result there lives
amongst us a non-German, alien race, unwilling and indeed unable to shed its racial
characteristics, its particular feelings, thoughts and ambitions and nevertheless
enjoying the same political rights as we ourselves do. [...]
He [the Jew] saps the prince's character with Byzantine flattery; national pride and the strength
of the nation with ridicule and shameless seduction to vice. [...] His power is the power of the money, which multiplies in his hands effortlessly and endlessly through interest, and with which he imposes a yoke upon the
nation that is the more pernicious in that its glitter disguises its ultimately tragic
consequences [...]
The results of his works is racial tuberculosis of the nation.
Sounds like this mean character (who does a lot more stuff than the quotes) is pretty intolerant, right? That it was also purely imaginary didn't slow down Hitler a bit.
Whether the imaginary intolerant foes take the form of vile coffee defilers or corrupt racial tuberculosis enablers, it's quite easy to completely derail the Popperian anti-intolerance train with utter nonsense. My take is this is happening here. The exercise of not tolerating intolerance is just a flimsy pretext for bigotry. Haters gotta hate, but they need to cast it as the other side's fault first.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06, @07:18PM
(2 children)
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday May 06, @07:18PM (#1305044)
Now the tricky part, learn from history! All the biggest fears of modern conservatives are ignorant nonsense hiding the real problems from conservative institutions.
Trans groomers? Nope, repressed religious fanatics grooming and abusing your kids.
Grabbing yer guns? Nope, conservatives have passed most gun restrictions and promoted dangerous gun liberties, a weird paradox. Remember the 2x popular vote loser saying they should take guns first and worry about due process later? Lefties member them berries.
Taxes? Lololol loser boy cemented much higher taxes for da plebes to give the richie richers more tax breaks. More socialism for those with all the wealth, punishment for everyone else.
Please let us know when you care to deal with the real world, which will include not supporting fascist traitors if you don't want to be lumped in with them.
The question here. Are you a modern conservative? The whole point of rational tolerance of the intolerant is that it helps keep you from becoming more of the problem. I've never worried about trans groomers; repressed religious fanatics; gun grabbers; dangerous gun liberties advocates; taxes - well, ok I have some fear about that; or rich people.
Please let us know when you care to deal with the real world, which will include not supporting fascist traitors if you don't want to be lumped in with them.
I'm already dealing with the real world better than you are.
which will include not supporting fascist traitors if you don't want to be lumped in with them
And what is up with these two minute hates? You do realize that 1984 is not an instruction manual, right?
I can't say that I really care what foolishness you choose to engage in. Your wish to lump me in a category is just a manifestation of your intolerance not some failing on my part. How should I not tolerate it?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 29, @02:56PM (5 children)
Sounds like this mean character (who does a lot more stuff than the quotes) is pretty intolerant, right? That it was also purely imaginary didn't slow down Hitler a bit.
Whether the imaginary intolerant foes take the form of vile coffee defilers or corrupt racial tuberculosis enablers, it's quite easy to completely derail the Popperian anti-intolerance train with utter nonsense. My take is this is happening here. The exercise of not tolerating intolerance is just a flimsy pretext for bigotry. Haters gotta hate, but they need to cast it as the other side's fault first.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 29, @06:13PM (4 children)
"The exercise of not tolerating intolerance is just a flimsy pretext for bigotry."
White supremacist says what? White lives matter!!
Lawl k d00d
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 29, @08:14PM (3 children)
JOOZ GONNA TUBE UR SOCIETZ. And Germany believed him enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 06, @07:18PM (2 children)
Now the tricky part, learn from history! All the biggest fears of modern conservatives are ignorant nonsense hiding the real problems from conservative institutions.
Trans groomers? Nope, repressed religious fanatics grooming and abusing your kids.
Grabbing yer guns? Nope, conservatives have passed most gun restrictions and promoted dangerous gun liberties, a weird paradox. Remember the 2x popular vote loser saying they should take guns first and worry about due process later? Lefties member them berries.
Taxes? Lololol loser boy cemented much higher taxes for da plebes to give the richie richers more tax breaks. More socialism for those with all the wealth, punishment for everyone else.
Please let us know when you care to deal with the real world, which will include not supporting fascist traitors if you don't want to be lumped in with them.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 06, @07:39PM
I'm already dealing with the real world better than you are.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 07, @06:23AM
And what is up with these two minute hates? You do realize that 1984 is not an instruction manual, right?
I can't say that I really care what foolishness you choose to engage in. Your wish to lump me in a category is just a manifestation of your intolerance not some failing on my part. How should I not tolerate it?