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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Cum tacent, clamant. When they are silent, they shout. -Cicero
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday May 27 2023, @02:11PM (17 children)
It is a discussion about children's education. It doesn't matter from which side it is coming - it affects all children. And the article is clearly not condoning it, but bringing it to everybody's attention. But you have your own biases to maintain. There will be another one tomorrow from Australia - so you will be complaining that we are ignoring Americans again. If you read it ALL you will see that the alternative viewpoint is introduced and if you click on the link you can see the whole article. But you do you....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 27 2023, @08:50PM (16 children)
It is a right-wing talking point, janrinok! Once again, your ignorance of American fascist politics fails you. Dogwhistles, janrinok, it is all about the dogwhistles, the cancel culture, the grooming, and CRT. Get a clue, and do the right thing and just let SN fade away.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 28 2023, @06:00AM (15 children)
Just as you complain that the story you are referring to - which is critical of the actions of those judges, it is not supporting them - is a 'right wing talking point, you are doing exactly the same thing as those judges.
You want to discount and ban discussion of anything with which you disagree. Just like those children are not being permitted to debate topics because of the judge's poliitic views, you yourself are doing EXACTLY the same thing with this community. You are acting in EXACTLY the same way as those judges. It must really hurt you to look be looking in the mirror.
Grow up. People have different opinions. Learn to live with others and stop trying to impose your own vision of a perfect world which is also our vision of a distopia on this community. I am to the left of both US parties. I have just been called a libertarian in another thread as though that term should offend me.
Now go and blow your own dogwhistle elsewhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 28 2023, @04:58PM (14 children)
It would be easier to let these things slide if you ever ran leftwung talking point articles. That does not happen, and I've seen so many better articles never even get published. You've run 100% political gun related articles, and your excuse is always that some people like it and it is a valid topic.
Fine, but then why are any topics adjacent to leftwing politics never allowed? Seems like the spread of fascism through the internet would be topics a brit living in France would be keen to discuss. Any time these problems are brought up you yell THAT IS WHAT JOURNALS ARE FOR! So why not let the submitter use their journal for some whinging about high school debate judges? Seriously, that is just a really low bar article equivalent with an article about banning CRT in classrooms. Why aren't we seeing multiple articles on Republican censorship banning certain parts of history in schools? Why not some articles on rightwing cancel culture harming the economy and hurting veterans? Definitely more important than someone's edgy teen debate topic being denied by a school debate judge.
Pure hypocrisy and it is getting very difficult to entertain that you don't know any better.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 28 2023, @07:51PM (13 children)
We don't run "leftwing talking point articles" because there are none being submitted that are relevant to our interests.
We don't run "right-wing" articles either unless they are relevant to our interests. "Careers and Education" is one of our topic headings. This fits very nicely into that topic. As does the discussion today about sex education. Neither of which do I, or most of the comments, think has a political bias. Read the whole story.
Anyone, even ACs, can post submissions. Just make it relevant to the front page topics. We post 'left wing' stories of Biden's government - because the politics of the US has links into numerous topics that are relevant. But you have conveniently skipped over them.
They are only acceptable on the front page when they meet the requirements of ANY story for the front page. It must be relevant to our interests, it must not be a propaganda piece i.e. it must contain a valid point for discussion that fits into one of our Topics, and it has to stand out from the all the other stories that are currently in the queue. Honestly, we actually stress to editors from day one of their training that the political aspect is irrelevant - it is the discussion that must be relevant to our community. Neither I nor Hubie select stories based on their politics. We are not in the game of saying 'Oh we have had a right wing story now we MUST post a left wing story', or vice versa. Start submitting them and the chances of one being picked increase significantly. Just make sure they meet the all of the requirements.
It is not sufficient for it just to be a political story if it does not also meet another topic heading, particularly if the political bias is significant. It must be Politics/Business, Politics/Careers and Education, and so on. But if there is no political aspect then just Business or Science or whatever is all that is required.
We are NOT responsible for the content of journals. It says that in several places. AzumaHazuki has a journal - she could post whatever she wishes to post.
But for journals - almost anything that is legal goes - because WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for the content of journals. Stop trying to conflate the two by comparing what you read in two entirely different fora.
When stories are rejected they are usually accompanied by an Admin-to-User message which explains why they have been rejected. If you are AC we cannot do that - you are anonymous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 28 2023, @09:04PM (12 children)
The more you try to explain, the more complicit you sound, janrinok. Are you really this dense? Do you not see how the alt-right is using you? It is not the same thing at all. Fliptop is an operative, he is spreading disinformation, and you are helping him do so.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday May 29 2023, @04:44AM (11 children)
Shhh - he is meant to be under cover, don't compromise him.
Er, hang on, which bit of disinformation is he spreading? Did the events that are in article you are concerned about not happen. Well, we checked, and it appears that they did. Is the system that is being described fair and honest in how the judges adjudicate what most people believe is the whole point of debating and debating competitions. No, it appears not to be. It is saying that no matter how good your arguments, some judges will simply decide that you lose because of their personally held beliefs. It isn't, in my opinion, significant what those personally held beliefs actually are. They should not be influencing a judges decision regarding how well somebody actually debated and argued their case. Indeed an alternative debating system was created years ago and that is introduced at the end of the summary. But you will have to read the entire linked article to get the full story.
In terms of education, many believe that it is teaching the wrong thing. Rather than preparing students for later life it is stressing that you must always bow down to those who imagine that they are superior to you because what they believe trumps what you might believe. And that is what the discussion for the most part has been about in the comments. Of course there are different views, but that is the nature of discussions. If you want to express your own views then create your own username and join in the discussion, rather than posting unsubstantiated and off topic complaints in a Poll about browser usage.
If however you wish to discuss the politics behind events around you rather than the event itself, while remaining secret and anonymously under cover, then that is probably more appropriately done in (somebody else's) journal.
Now I have to dash - I must send my own secret report to the head of the Soylent News Intelligence and Deception Executive (SNIDE), which of course is the senior directorate of the Soylent Headquarters (Information and Technology) - I'll let you work that one out for yourself.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 29 2023, @05:54AM (10 children)
You are truely and idiot, janrinok. Can I interest you in some horse de-wormer, or a laptop previously owned by someone named "Hunter"? Are you seriously suggesting that Marxist-Lennonists are to be censored, just because of your cold-war cretin training? Did you know it was just Henry Kissinger's 100th birthday?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday May 29 2023, @07:10AM (9 children)
Who said they should be censored? Nobody!
They shouldn't allow their private beliefs to interfere with their professional judgement. Let students debate in a fair and honest way, with a level playing field regardless of the ideology of the judge.
I am NOT a conservative. I have recently voted for local party that is significantly left of either of the US main parties. But I don't let that cloud my judgement when choosing stories to publish.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 29 2023, @05:25PM (8 children)
Should debates entertain flat earth theory? How about the merits of eugenics? There are worse topics we could bring up, or you could admit some topics should not be given a platform. Maybe their rules are too stringent, maybe they are rational for younger minds. The artucle is very clearly conservative biased playing right into the persecution fetish they have. It reeks even further since conservative politicians are the ones currently taking away freedoms and trying to create a fascist dictatorship.
Every time you throw up your hands and say both sides need attention, or claim some rightwing propaganda is just legitimate discourse we somehow should discuss on a tech science forum, you destroy your credibility a little further. It is only visible to those of us paying attention to rejected subs, the reasons given (too political usually) and then seeing totally political rightwing propaganda published to the front page why do you only cater to Republican interests when allowing political content? Rhetorical question.
Deny all you want, even the most stubborn eventually notice the double standard pattern.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday May 29 2023, @06:28PM (7 children)
So that suggests that you have made submissions in the past, and it cannot have been as an AC because you would not have received the rejection admin-to-user message. The 'usually' means that there was more than one rejection, and probably quite a few.
I have stated quite clearly that a political submission on its own without being related to a topic of interest is NOT acceptable. Clearly, your submissions were not complying with the requirements. They were probably not all rejected by me either.
We don't, but for quite some time now the only regular source we ever had of left wing political submissions has been very quiet. There haven't been any left-wing, on topic, submissions that comply with the stated requirements for a long, long time.
I guess that your identity security isn't your strong point is it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 29 2023, @10:34PM (3 children)
Well, there's the problem! After enough rejections, a soylentil may get the idea that their contributions are not welcome here, and that only right-wing dogwhistles, or Anglo-centric, stories are wanted. You deflection is as valid as ever, janrinok, which is to say not at all.
Are you intentionally lying, or is it just that you no longer can remember? We had a soylentil who would contribute submissions from the WSWS [wsws.org], which were regularly rejected just because of the title of the source. And it is well known that for quite some time the vast majority of submissions are made by one person, and reflect this one person's political biases.
As for identity, who do you refer to, janrinok? Afraid to mention his name? Aristarchus was famous for having many thousands of submissions, and a rejection rate of close to 90%, not because of the quality of the submissions, but because they were made by him. (We know this, since several of his submissions were rejected, and then submitted by staff under a different user name. Aristarchus mentioned this several times.)
So once again, why all the froth-inducing right-wing talking points? Fusty bothsides-ism? Or the entrenched class interest of the bourgeouise to divide the working class with misinformation and reality TV stars? Shame on you, janrinok.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 30 2023, @04:57AM (2 children)
You would also think that after so many rejections a soylentil might realise that stories that do not comply with the submission guidelines will not be accepted.
It wasn't the source - it was because they did not discuss any of the topics that we are interested in. I repeat for the third time, political submissions that do not discuss one of our topics of interest belong in the journals.
Everybody has a political bias whether they recognise it or not. But that doesn't mean that their submissions are automatically accepted or rejected. You know what is required of a submission. I have repeated the requirements several times in this thread alone. If they do not meet the requirements they will be rejected.
Afraid to mention his name? Aristarchus was famous for having many thousands of submissions, and a rejection rate of close to 90%, not because of the quality of the submissions
Ah, now we are talking about a specific person - he was not the only person who has failed to comply with the requirements. You are correct that he had many stories rejected - they are all still there in the database. He did not report the factual part of a news item alone, he also included a lot of his own political opinions. That is information that should be in the comments, not in the submission. Normally we can accept a small amount of additional opinion if we feed it is justified. In his case it wasn't - it was simply to get his own views on the front page under the guise of being genuine submission content. One of the requirements of a submission is that it should be factual, not his personal opinon. He was advised many times not to continue to do this, and to put the rejected submission in his journal. He continued, so we read every one of them and, if he had again ignored the submission requirements and advice, they would be rejected for precisely the same reason.
Lets take one example: https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=46750 [soylentnews.org]
In the submission, aristarchus writes, amongst other things:
Now look at the the title he gave to the material he was trying to discuss - which Topic would you suggest it meets? "The Alt-Right Is Now the Entire Right (Moar Revised, even more fixed! Hope this meets with your t" . That is exactly as we received it. It is not an error. Those 2 comments were not in the original linked material, but were aristarchus' own insertions. Completely unnecessary.
In another: https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=45284 [soylentnews.org] - entitled "DC Police Said Proud Boys Were Stabbed on Election Night. Then They Changed Their Story.". Again which of our front page Topics was he aiming to be in? Nevertheless, he writes:
This is not material that belongs in a submission. An editor might simply delete it a few times, but as you say he made 1787 submissions. We are not here to have our time wasted by an idiot who cannot comply with the submission requirements.
There is a saying about 'Repeatedly doing exactly the same thing yet expecting different results'.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2023, @08:06PM (1 child)
Just a little push-back on the revisionist history of SN: aristarchus made over 7,000 submissions. TMB used to object to them, on political grounds
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday May 31 2023, @05:42AM
Rubbish - you are lying again.
They are still in the database - there are 1787 of them. The database actually displays the count on ari's submission page. Would you care to provide something to support your claim?
TMB was never an editor (https://soylentnews.org/authors.pl [soylentnews.org]), and took no part in preparing stories for the front page unless 1. it was a story he was writing, 2. it was an emergency and the queue was empty. That will account for no more that 10 stories over a 7 year period.
Lots of people used to object to them, community members and staff alike. Mainly because they did not comply with the submission requirements, and they were full of personal opinion and attacks against people completely unconnected with the 'news' item he was purporting to be writing about.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 29 2023, @11:21PM (2 children)
I submitted as AC, if that is your barrier then get double fucked, and I stopped a few years back when the trump nonsense was being spewed yet that type of spam was deemed legitimate discourse. Argue if you like, but the trend is clearly visible and Soylent News publicly lost quite a few members.
"I guess that your identity security isn't your strong point is it?"
For a site that likes to pretend it cares about privacy you sure seem intent on removing it from people you dislike. Sorry, still not aristarchus, hopefully other users see through your issues. Maybe you'll have another database *failure* before the 30th that will accidentally scrub this drama. If you don't like criticism for things other editors might have done then stop being the public user.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 30 2023, @02:38AM
Or, alternatively, we could have a new poll, well before schedule, to get this discussion off the front page. Oh, it is done!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 30 2023, @05:07AM
You misread what I wrote. Submissions from ACs are welcome. We have lots of them - usually they appear as 'upstart writes' because that is the bot that they use to submit them. They are perfectly acceptable and constitute the majority of our stories.
The bots are also used by logged in users, and the editors themselves. I recommend that those who wish to make submissions try them - they make it all much easier.