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posted by hubie on Sunday November 19, @04:01AM   Printer-friendly
from the money-money-money dept.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/apple-discriminated-against-us-citizens-in-hiring-doj-says/

Apple illegally discriminated against US citizens and other US residents in its hiring and recruitment practices for certain types of positions that went to foreign workers, the US Department of Justice said yesterday. Apple agreed to pay up to $25 million in back pay and civil penalties to settle the DOJ allegations.

Apple discriminated "against US citizens and certain non-US citizens whose permission to live in and work in the United States does not expire," the agency said. The $25 million payment was called the largest ever collected by the Justice Department under the anti-discrimination provision of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

Apple is required to pay $6.75 million in civil penalties and create an $18.25 million fund to provide back pay to those harmed by its hiring practices. Apple did not admit guilt in the settlement. But the company acknowledged in a statement that it had "unintentionally not been following the DOJ standard," according to Reuters.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Sunday November 19, @06:02AM (1 child)

    by ikanreed (3164) on Sunday November 19, @06:02AM (#1333483) Journal

    H1B's as labor-breaking threats of deportation to hang over the head of all your employees? Who could have ever foreseen

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19, @01:01PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19, @01:01PM (#1333491)

      Only racists could have foreseen it. Get back in the pod, slave!

  • (Score: 5, Touché) by DadaDoofy on Sunday November 19, @01:52PM

    by DadaDoofy (23827) on Sunday November 19, @01:52PM (#1333492)

    Given that the plaintiffs would have almost surely won a considerably larger judgement against them in court, Apple instead went to the DOJ to obtain a deal in which they didn't have to admit to their discrimination and pretend it was "unintentional". The fine is inconsequential. Apple earns $25 million in profit every 90 minutes or so.

  • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 19, @02:38PM (13 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19, @02:38PM (#1333496) Homepage Journal

    White 'Muricans badder!
    White male 'Muricans baddest!
    Heterosexual white male 'Muricans ultimate bad!
    Christian heterosexual white male 'Muricans are the Great Satan!

    Apple is right out in the front ranks of the cultural revolution.

    --
    Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 19, @05:02PM (3 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday November 19, @05:02PM (#1333511) Journal

      It's about money, idiot. They wouldn't care if the overseas workers were green with orange polkadots, it's all about money. Shove your stupid persecution complex. "Job creators" are not your friends. You are not one of them. You are not in the big boys' club. You have more in common with these exploited workers, and the discriminated workers, than you EVER will with the wealthy and powerful. Get that through your head: the real racial divide is haves vs have-nots.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 19, @06:54PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19, @06:54PM (#1333523) Homepage Journal

        "Job creators" are not your friends.

        Uhhhmmmm, WTF do you think "job creators" are? Historically, it has NOT been corporations, or even medium to big sized companies. Job creators ARE our friends. Small businesses around the country create jobs, always have, always will. Startups create jobs, not established companies. Corporations such as Apple tend to scoop up the job creators, then eliminate some portion of the productive jobs from the job market. Job creators, or small businesses and startups, are often our friends. Some guy on the other side of town, you've met a few times at a school function, and maybe bumped into while out fishing. They shop where you shop, you meet them in passing frequently, even if you don't know them well.

        TFS and TFA are most certainly not about job creators, and you're away off topic.

        --
        Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by gnuman on Sunday November 19, @07:10PM (1 child)

          by gnuman (5013) on Sunday November 19, @07:10PM (#1333529)

          Here are some stats, from: https://www.bls.gov/bdm/bdmfirmsize.htm#SIZE9 [bls.gov]

          and some data:
                https://www.bls.gov/web/cewbd/table_a.txt [bls.gov]

          The largest, stable job creators are the largest firms. That's the data. They also have most secure jobs. The micro-firms, are crap-shoot, always have been. They go bust in downturns. The largest ones keep rolling and it's rare for them to shutdown. And here largest ones are 1000+ employees, which is not actually that large. It's simply a large business.

          The turnover in the micro-sized and small business size is brutal with few exceptions (like doctor offices). Job security is not there and neither are benefits. You may bring your hate on the corps, but that's where the money and job security actually is.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 19, @10:10PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19, @10:10PM (#1333549) Homepage Journal

            OK, depends on which line you're looking at. The gross numbers favor the biggest firms. Percentage rates, the smallest businesses beat everyone with 15%, and with every increment in size, the percentage drops. Drop down to the net gains and losses, the biggest firms employment growth is 0.6, and the smallest of businesses are 0.3, with all others beating them.

            I haven't figured out how to access historical data, and it appears that their data only goes back to 2003. Historically, small businesses used to create a lot more jobs than large corporations. It may well be that those dynamics have been changed in recent years - COVID seems to have hurt small businesses more than large. Walmart is well known to have put many small businesses out of business, and Amazon seems to be doing the same.

            You have something with the stability factor, but still, big corporations aren't in business to create jobs. They're in business to exploit whatever resources they are working with - including personnel.

            Some more interesting data here - https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/02/united-states-startups-create-jobs-at-higher-rates-older-large-firms-employ-most-workers.html [census.gov]

            During economic expansions, the net job creation rate of small firms exceeds that of large firms by a few percentage points. However, during contractions, the rates fall to nearly the same negative level as large firms.

            So, basically, current dynamics say that we are in a contraction - probably better known as a recession. Bidenomics at work, right?

            --
            Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Thexalon on Sunday November 19, @05:40PM (8 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Sunday November 19, @05:40PM (#1333517)

      It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with perceptions about maximizing productivity and minimizing salaries.

      Oh, and there have been several policy changes within the US government that have made the situation worse. They've generally been quiet bipartisan efforts, because there's no industry with big money to donate that's against it.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 19, @06:58PM (7 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19, @06:58PM (#1333524) Homepage Journal

        Apple Discriminated Against US Citizens

        'Nuff said. Explain, rationalize, condemn, praise, or whatever, it comes back to discriminating against US citizens. Some of us have been bitching about importing labor for years - and it has zippy-doo to do with racism. We are being discriminated against. We are the bad people who don't deserve jobs or living wages.

        --
        Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by gnuman on Sunday November 19, @07:24PM (6 children)

          by gnuman (5013) on Sunday November 19, @07:24PM (#1333534)

          No. You don't seem to "get it". Let me spell it out.

          H1B can be hired at similar wage but because they are H1B, they CANNOT easily go to another place. It's akin of ***indentured servitude*** style worker but their debt is the visa. H1Bs can be threatened with getting fired - something that another will probably care much less about.

          So it has fuck all to do with "Muricans bad". It has everything to do with reducing turnover and holding a potential sword of Damocles over the workers' visas. It's similar reason why slaughter house workers were undocumented immigrants, but then US and companies colluded to only deport a few at a time -- you know, to keep the others in check, reduce wages, etc. H1B is less about wages and more about reducing turnover.

          Instead of latching on the BS like "Muricans bad", maybe vote for easier green cards and remove H1Bs? Of course, you could alternatively vote to "screw Murica" and just keep immigrants out. The rest of the world doesn't need brain drain ;) Well, or Canada could have those workers instead.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 19, @10:15PM (4 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday November 19, @10:15PM (#1333550) Homepage Journal

            I've never said "keep immigrants out". I have insisted over and over that immigration needs to be CONTROLLED, and that policies need to give preferential treatment to current citizens, and to LEGEL immigrants. Build the wall, set quotas, and just shoot border jumpers. Uncontrolled waves of illegal aliens benefit no one, not even the illegal aliens who go into debt (of a sorts) to the cartels that bring them here. The bodies found every year along the border support my claim that not even the illegals benefit much.

            --
            Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
            • (Score: 1, Funny) by khallow on Monday November 20, @04:37AM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 20, @04:37AM (#1333575) Journal
              US immigration isn't uncontrolled. That isn't the problem. H1-B is a great heavily controlled system, for example, as is the rest of the immigration system. I'll note for example, that if immigration were truly uncontrolled, one wouldn't need a cartel to smuggle oneself into the country. Just buy an airline ticket.

              And the US thrived for most of its existence on genuinely uncontrolled immigration. What changed is that once someone created an elaborate system of public goods and services - starting after the First World War, then they created enormous incentive for immigration (and the perception of mooching of said stuff). That in turn spurred the present system of heavily controlled immigration.

              and just shoot border jumpers

              There is no problem here that warrants shooting people who just want to better their lives.

              My view is issue a bunch of green cards each year for those who want to stay indefinitely (no conditions like travel or work restrictions); a reasonable process for temporary visas for tourists, students, and other visitors; and have a sensible naturalization process. No need for any other sort of visa. And if too many green cards are issued by some metric that makes sense, then issue less in future years until the metric improves.

            • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday November 20, @12:30PM

              by Thexalon (636) on Monday November 20, @12:30PM (#1333596)

              Uncontrolled waves of illegal aliens benefit no one

              On the contrary, it clearly benefits some people, because otherwise it wouldn't be happening. People who are probably benefiting from illegal immigration include but are not limited to:
              - The management and owners of hotels, meatpackers, construction contractors, vegetable farms, restaurants, and agricultural distributors. It's not just the often-sub-minimum wages, it's also being able to force people to work under atrocious and sometimes deadly conditions and they can't say anything about it for fear of deportation.
              - "Coyotes" who make a good living smuggling people across the borders.
              - Slumlords who like having a population of people who desperately need housing and can't complain about the conditions for fear of deportation.
              - Manufacturers of equipment used by INS and CPB.
              - The Catholic Church in the USA, because without the influx of often-devout Latinos they'd be losing membership even faster.
              - Bigots who want to discriminate against Hispanic US citizens and will basically treat the concept of a Hispanic or Latino citizen as non-existent.
              - Yes, the immigrants themselves. Because while coming to the US does present a significant risk of death, staying where they are often also presents a significant risk of death. And sure, in the US they will find themselves doing the worst jobs imaginable at atrocious pay with the constant threat of government violence being directed at them ... just like they do in the old country. Oh, and any kids they have here will be US citizens and have a much better life than they would have had mom & dad stayed in the old country.

              There are some things we could do to stem the tide, but they don't involve taking actions against the illegal immigrants themselves: Getting companies into trouble for routinely violating I-9 requirements would be a big one.

              --
              The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Monday November 20, @07:07PM

            by Whoever (4524) on Monday November 20, @07:07PM (#1333645) Journal

            H1B can be hired at similar wage but because they are H1B, they CANNOT easily go to another place. It's akin of ***indentured servitude*** style worker but their debt is the visa.

            Actually, they can easily go to another place. I did this myself when on an H1B visa.

            The lock-in that does exist is in two forms:
            1. Requirement to pay back moving costs if the H1B employee moves.
            2. A Green Card (permanent resident visa) application may have to be re-started if the employee moves employer, although I think there is some flexibility now to continue a Green Card application with a new employer, once the application has reached a certain stage in the process.

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