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posted by janrinok on Friday February 13 2015, @11:47PM   Printer-friendly
from the it's-never-good-news dept.

"Who still smokes?" as Denise Grady reports at the NYT that however bad you thought smoking was, it’s even worse. A new study has found that in addition to the well-known hazards of lung cancer, artery disease, heart attacks, chronic lung disease and stroke, researchers found that smoking was linked to significantly increased risks of infection, kidney disease, intestinal disease caused by inadequate blood flow, and heart and lung ailments not previously attributed to tobacco. “The smoking epidemic is still ongoing, and there is a need to evaluate how smoking is hurting us as a society, to support clinicians and policy making in public health,” says Brian D. Carter, an author of the study. “It’s not a done story.” Carter says he was inspired to dig deeper into the causes of death in smokers after taking an initial look at data from five large health surveys being conducted by other researchers. As expected, death rates were higher among the smokers but diseases known to be caused by tobacco accounted for only 83 percent of the excess deaths in people who smoked. “I thought, ‘Wow, that’s really low,’ ” Mr. Carter said. “We have this huge cohort. Let’s get into the weeds, cast a wide net and see what is killing smokers that we don’t already know.” The researchers found that, compared with people who had never smoked, smokers were about twice as likely to die from infections, kidney disease, respiratory ailments not previously linked to tobacco, and hypertensive heart disease, in which high blood pressure leads to heart failure. "The Surgeon General's report claims 480,000 deaths directly caused by smoking, but we think that is really quite a bit off," concludes Carter adding that the figure may be closer to 540,000.

 
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by SGT CAPSLOCK on Saturday February 14 2015, @01:43AM

    by SGT CAPSLOCK (118) on Saturday February 14 2015, @01:43AM (#144831) Journal

    I'm sorry, but in today's day and age, if you start smoking anything (including pot) for "recreational use", calling you an idiot should be enshrined in law.

    Why's that?

    What's wrong with letting people do what they want? I mean, you'd have a right to be upset if someone were blowing smoke in your face, but I doubt anyone's forcing you to stand near them while they indulge their habits.

    Besides that, it seems a bit reckless to just call people "idiots" because they do something like smoke. It might seem incomprehensible, foreign, and terribly tough to understand to some people, but everyone has their own circumstances. It's entirely possible that some smokers are intelligent people who understand the risks, yet still choose to smoke for one reason or another. Good for them.

    Calling smokers "idiots" kind of has the same feel to it as when non-religious people call religious ones idiots, or when highly religious people threaten atheists with quotes from their religious literature. Pointless hostility doesn't help anyone.

    Disclaimer: I don't smoke, but I used to.

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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @02:58AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @02:58AM (#144842)

    I guess my problem is the guy who comes in, lights up, and stinks the place up with his fumes. About as welcomed as someone who comes in and decides this would be a great time to burn his trash.

    Then when they have enjoyed their smoke, they consider dropping the spent butt on the ground for someone else to pick up.

    This kind of stuff makes me consider a smoker a lower-class individual.

    Same as poor personal hygiene where one fails to bathe or wash his garments, thinking his personal body odors should be tolerated, even if he smells of feces.

    One of the great marketing efforts of the day is convincing women, who have been traditionally very concerned with their appearance, that smoking is sexy. Maybe we should also market a car for women with the exhaust pipe poked through the front of the car as the centerpiece of the bonnet. Extra points for having it belch black smoke. Promote is as beauty and elegance for the women who will believe anything the marketer says. Now, your face can have the same appeal as the back end of a diesel bus!

    (posting anonymously for damned good reason. This is my honest take on it, and it will NOT set well with those who are under the illusion its OK to have others tolerate them stinking up the place. )

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:40AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:40AM (#144850) Journal

      I guess my problem is the guy who comes in, lights up, and stinks the place up with his fumes. About as welcomed as someone who comes in and decides this would be a great time to burn his trash.

      Then when they have enjoyed their smoke, they consider dropping the spent butt on the ground for someone else to pick up.

      This kind of stuff makes me consider a smoker a lower-class individual.

      Interesting transition you've done here: from one guy, to they then to any and all.

      If you did it unintentionally, maybe you should pay attention to your thinking process, it seems like you are missing a lot on the part of critical side of it

      If you did it intentionally, you may show some talents for cointelpro, but it's a too low level for the needs of today's time.

      One on top of the other, seems you are smart enough to post AC... it shows your willingness to protect your karma (like it's somehow valuable) above demonstrating a personal conviction.

      (I'll be modding it as a troll, for the reasons shown above)

         

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:26AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:26AM (#144859)

        I honestly don't see what's so hard to understand about it. "the guy" is clearly referring to individuals who do such things.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:47AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:47AM (#144867) Journal

          Look, mate... I'm a heavy smoker... You don't know me, as far as I know, we never met. You don't know to which lengths I'm going to avoid my habit be a nuisance to others, but you consider me a "lower class individual", right?
          And you persist in doing it, even if I'm pointing out the faults in your view (demonizing a class of people for the misbehaviour of a few).

          There, I spelled it for you as clearly I could.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by redneckmother on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:59PM

            by redneckmother (3597) on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:59PM (#145008)

            I'm a smoker, too. I roll my own with OCB papers (no glue or filter) and shag-cut Virginia tobacco.

            I live on a small ranch, and provide a butt can for my smoking visitors. My rule here is that EVERYONE picks up cigarette filters, spent ammo shells, and any other trash. If there's no trash can nearby, put it in a pocket until one is handy. When outdoors I stay downwind of nonsmokers whenever possible, and wouldn't THINK of lighting up in a nonsmoker's building or home.

            Yeah, I know I "stink", but I try to keep it to myself.

            I know smoking is bad for me - I had a quad bypass eleven years ago, reconstructive neck surgery three years ago (smoking accelerates bone degeneration), and I probably face more surgery in the next year or two. I don't want to live forever, and I enjoy my smokes. If people don't like me, I leave them alone.

            Realistically, no person should expect more than eight more minutes of life. Choking kills; most people will be seriously brain damaged after four minutes with no air. After eight minutes, there's nothing anyone can do. A grizzled old Army Sergeant made sure I knew how to help a choking person, even to the point of performing a tracheotomy with a pen knife, scissors, nail clippers, ballpoint pen, stick, or any other sharp object I might carry or (quickly) find or make. Quote: "If I choke, and you're nearby and don't do something, I'll haunt the living shit out of you."

            A dear friend went to a doctor a few years back. The doctor examined him, and told him he needed to give up smoking and drinking beer. His response was, "Figger the bill, doc - we're done!"

            --
            Mas cerveza por favor.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:16PM (#145026)

            > I'm a heavy smoker... you consider me a "lower class individual"

            That's how stereotypes work. You may speak impeccable English, you may have gone to top schools, you may have perfect manners, and you may be wealthy. However, if you smoke a lot of people will look down on you. Unfair perhaps, but that's how it works.

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:26PM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:26PM (#145029) Journal
              And it's Ok to accept stereotypes, eh? Because they're so efficient in eliminating the need to think and makes so much easier the brainwashing.
              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:50PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:50PM (#145038)

                I'm not saying it's ok. I'm saying they exist. I'm sure you fall into the trap yourself occasionally.

    • (Score: 2) by SGT CAPSLOCK on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:28AM

      by SGT CAPSLOCK (118) on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:28AM (#144861) Journal

      I guess my problem is the guy who comes in, lights up, and stinks the place up with his fumes. About as welcomed as someone who comes in and decides this would be a great time to burn his trash.

      That does sound like a pretty genuine problem, but I'm kind of left wondering like, what kind of establishment are you talking where people can just walk in and light up? I'm not asking sarcastically or anything, just wondering.

      I live in the USA, and as far as I know, it's a pretty common law (I'm thinking maybe even federal? I'm not sure) that smoking can't be done indoors (as far as businesses and such are concerned) except under particular circumstances. For instance, mom-and-pop shops that specialize in selling tobacco products, and maybe some bars (although I've been to plenty of bars and I notice more and more often that smoking is not allowed in them either).

      Aside from that, maybe you're talking about an open air garage for automotive work? In that case, I'd ask the customer or whomever to put it out, to exit the garage, or ...etc etc. If it's not a business at all and is actually your residence; well, that's a bit odd.

      Then when they have enjoyed their smoke, they consider dropping the spent butt on the ground for someone else to pick up.

      Now I'm even more curious about what country/type of place you're talking about! Haha. I see this in parking lots sometimes, but I've never seen it in a house or a business (again, in the USA).

      This kind of stuff makes me consider a smoker a lower-class individual.

      I wonder about the statistics of it though. I've never seen the situation you describe, and I've been around a lot of smokers. These people you're talking about sound like they're low-class altogether, and I don't think it has to do with their smoking. If they have such disregard for other people that they simply walk up to you and light up, completely finish a smoke despite your obvious disdain (and probably the law), and then just litter the ground with their spent cigarettes, then... ...yeah, that's odd...

      Why not walk away, complain to them, complain to someone higher up, etc?

      Same as poor personal hygiene where one fails to bathe or wash his garments, thinking his personal body odors should be tolerated, even if he smells of feces.

      I've never been around this kind of person either. Random thought, but - are you talking about some part of an abandoned transit system deep underground filled with miscreant hobos that you found by accident? This is getting weirder and weirder.

      One of the great marketing efforts of the day is convincing women, who have been traditionally very concerned with their appearance, that smoking is sexy.

      Some men think that it's hot when women smoke. I don't, but some do.

      • (Score: 1) by VanessaE on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:29AM

        by VanessaE (3396) <vanessa.e.dannenberg@gmail.com> on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:29AM (#144887) Journal

        I'm not the person you were replying to, but I'll jump in anyway. :-P

        Now I'm even more curious about what country/type of place you're talking about!

        Bars aside (obviously), indoor smoking is common in casinos, and I'm not talking about Vegas or Atlantic City, either.

        Why not walk away, complain to them, complain to someone higher up, etc?

        If you just walk away, you're being deprived of the thing you were there to enjoy in the first place. What right does someone who can't control their smoke have to force you to move?

        If the smoker is someone you know, they'll probably be nice enough about it and put their cigarette out, but if they're some stranger, half the time they'll ignore you, or tell you to go jump in a lake (to put it mildly). If they're nasty enough, it might earn you a more violent reaction.

        Complain to someone higher-up and that higher-up will usually just ask YOU to move (because chances are, the other patron is probably within their rights to smoke).

        That's been my experience (well, minus the violent response).

        Since it's simply impossible to control where the smoke goes, and person-to-person interaction is too likely to end up as a person-to-person conflict, the only solution is to outright ban smoking inside or near buildings where the general public is expected to routinely spend time (bars aside, since it's kinda expected there).

        are you talking about some part of an abandoned transit system deep underground filled with miscreant hobos that you found by accident?

        I have, on more occasions than I care to remember, ended up next to some horrible-smelling people, but they weren't what I'd call hobos. Just average working-class clean-looking people going about their day. Unwashed clothes have no excuse unless you're homeless though (wash your stuff in the sink with hand soap if you have to), but health conditions can easily lead to nasty smells.

        (anything calling smokers "lower-class")

        I hope no one takes offense to this, but I agree with that sentiment, with the proviso that it applies only to the aforementioned light-up-anywhere-they-can, toss-the-butts-on-the-ground types, because frankly, they DO make life worse for non-smokers. Thankfully, there aren't that many of those people left, but they do still exist. Were they already lower-class to begin with? Maybe, but that doesn't mean they have to exemplify it with their cigarettes.

        I have no problem with people who smoke in designated areas, who behave in a polite and civilized manner with their smoking, and who put their spent butts out in the proper place.

        Disclosure: I do not use tobacco in any form. I've lost two members of my family directly to diseases caused by their tobacco use (lung cancer followed by a heart attack for one, and cancer of the throat for the other). Two more were smokers who died of cancers that can't clearly be attributed to smoking.

        • (Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:54AM

          by anubi (2828) on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:54AM (#144905) Journal

          As a kid, I had asthma. Tobacco and sulfur would trip it off big-time.

          Often, a smoker would determine whether or not I would have to endure a bout of it.

          As a kid, I was powerless. If a smoker wanted to sentence me to this, I did not have much of a say in the matter.

          I often could not leave, as the smoker was sometimes my dad's friend or a family member. It was hard to ask a smoker to please take it outside, and even then he comes back into the house, his clothes reeking of it.

          Even my dad would defend the rights of the smoker, as he obviously did not want a confrontation.

          Me? I just avoided any place they smoked. My main problem was my workplace, which in the 60's, was rife with smokers. There was usually a dozen smokers in every business meeting, which I did my best to breathe as slowly as possible and not have a bout of asthma on the job. Even then a business meeting was often followed by several days of congested respiration.

          --
          "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:29AM

    by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday February 14 2015, @04:29AM (#144863) Journal

    What's wrong with letting people do what they want? I mean, you'd have a right to be upset if someone were blowing smoke in your face, but I doubt anyone's forcing you to stand near them while they indulge their habits.

    This is an interesting point. One thing that anyone who starts smoking today can NOT claim is that they were not adequately informed of the risks. As long as they're not expecting other people to pay their health care costs for this risky behavior, it's their choice.

    The problem comes when the doctor tells them they've got a spot on their lung and their care over the last year of their life costs a half-million dollars to the other people in their insurance group or the taxpayers. I'm not advocating making smoking illegal, but I don't see anything wrong with a little peer pressure and social censure.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday February 14 2015, @06:22AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 14 2015, @06:22AM (#144878) Journal

      As long as they're not expecting other people to pay their health care costs for this risky behavior, it's their choice.

      The problem comes when the doctor tells them they've got a spot on their lung and their care over the last year of their life costs a half-million dollars to the other people in their insurance group or the taxpayers...

      Oh, don't get me started.

      Because I'm a smoker, I'm paying 20% more on my premiums for private health insurance and income insurance (in case I'm can't work due to illness). Which means each 5 years I'm not dying of cancer or hearth diseases because of smoking, I contribute with 1 year to the healthcare of others (including those which with cancer without being smokers). Keeping into account that if one acquires a smoking-induced cancer, one's life expectancy is around 5 years (for a stage 1 lung cancer [about.com], bad luck if detected in more advanced stages), then in 25 years I already paid for my costs and, for the rest of them, and I'm sponsoring the non-smoking population (hint: I'm a smoker for 30 years)

      In addition, I'm paying excises on the cigarettes I smoke: from a pack of 40-ies costing me $31, $18 [smh.com.au] are excises. Guess what? Those taxes amount for $6.42B [tobaccoinaustralia.org.au] in 2012... wonder how much of them were injected back into the health system?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:12PM

        by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:12PM (#144958) Journal

        Because I'm a smoker, I'm paying 20% more on my premiums for private health insurance and income insurance (in case I'm can't work due to illness). Which means each 5 years I'm not dying of cancer or hearth diseases because of smoking, I contribute with 1 year to the healthcare of others (including those which with cancer without being smokers). Keeping into account that if one acquires a smoking-induced cancer, one's life expectancy is around 5 years (for a stage 1 lung cancer [about.com], bad luck if detected in more advanced stages), then in 25 years I already paid for my costs and, for the rest of them, and I'm sponsoring the non-smoking population (hint: I'm a smoker for 30 years)

        That's because you live in one of those sensible countries with the universal health care. Where I live, the distribution of health care costs to those who live unhealthy lifestyles are not nearly as rational.

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:02AM

      by sjames (2882) on Saturday February 14 2015, @07:02AM (#144883) Journal

      Interestingly, since smokers tend to decline quickly once they become unhealthy, they tend to cost less than non-smokers. They also pay all those excise taxes that supposedly offset healthcare costs but somehow find their way into the general budget. Then there's the higher health insurance premiums. If all of that was based on statistical costs rather than being punitive, smokerts would get a discount on their health insurance.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @12:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @12:27PM (#144935)

        Have you seen any studies supporting this? It's an honest question, I'd be interested in seeing those.

      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:07PM

        by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday February 14 2015, @03:07PM (#144955) Journal

        Interestingly, since smokers tend to decline quickly once they become unhealthy, they tend to cost less than non-smokers.

        Have you seen any data suggesting that the last year's health care of a smoker's life tends to be less expensive than the last year of non-smokers? If that's true, then I'm going to see if I can get my mother-in-law to take up smoking.

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:31PM

          by sjames (2882) on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:31PM (#145012) Journal

          As far as I can tell, the last year is about the same. It's the 10 years before the last year that are vastly different.

  • (Score: 2) by gnuman on Saturday February 14 2015, @05:23AM

    by gnuman (5013) on Saturday February 14 2015, @05:23AM (#144872)

    I'm sorry, but in today's day and age, if you start smoking anything (including pot) for "recreational use", calling you an idiot should be enshrined in law.

    Why's that?
    What's wrong with letting people do what they want?

    More specifically, I should have said that "idiots" should apply to people that start smoking today (last 10-20 years?), not 30+ years ago, in the age of ignorance about smoking.

    As you may have noted, I have not indicated legality of smoking. I have no problems in people doing whatever they want to do, as long as it doesn't affect me. But it does not make said activity any more rational. As for comparisons of smoking to anything else, I can't find any.

      * smoking can't compare with religion, or even weird cults. Those at least have social aspects.
      * smoking can't compare with other risky activities, like motorcycle racing, or sky diving. Those don't kill you, unless you crash.

    Maybe cutting yourself is like smoking? No idea, but that activity seems to have about the same amount of positives - none. Although it is cheaper than smoking and some call cutting "art".

    I can't find *anything* positive thing about smoking. There is no positives about smoking from media (in most nations, at least). It is really incomprehensible to me why people would even try smoking today. Is it only peer pressure?? As a former smoker, maybe you can answer that.

    PS. A few times, when I walk outside a respiratory hospital, there are always people there, out on the sidewalk, in wheelchairs. Doesn't matter how cold it is. They are smoking, some through a tube in their trachea. Some with oxygen concentrators (disconnected and beeping). It is a really sad and pathetic sight. So yes, I do have some strong feelings about smoking.