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posted by janrinok on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:42PM   Printer-friendly
from the have-we-come-to-this? dept.

Are you, your family, or your community at risk of turning to violent extremism? Now you can find out as The Intercept reports that a rating system devised by the National Counterterrorism Center titled "Countering Violent Extremism: A Guide for Practitioners and Analysts,” lets police, social workers and educators rate individuals on a scale of one to five in categories such as: “Expressions of Hopelessness, Futility,” “Talk of Harming Self or Others,” and “Connection to Group Identity (Race, Nationality, Religion, Ethnicity).” The ranking system is supposed to alert government officials to individuals at risk of turning to radical violence, and to families or communities at risk of incubating extremist ideologies. Families are judged on factors such as “Aware[ness] of Each Other’s Activities,” as well as levels of “Parent-Child Bonding,” (PDF) and communities are rated by access to health care and social services, in addition to “presence of ideologues or recruiters” as potential risk factors. A low score in any of these categories would indicate a high risk of “susceptibility to engage in violent extremism,” according to the document. Users of the guide are encouraged to plot the scores on a graph to determine what “interventions” could halt the process of radicalization before it happens.

Experts have suggested that intervention by law enforcement or other branches of the government in individuals’ lives, particularly young people, based solely based on the views they express, can potentially criminalize constitutionally protected behavior. “The idea that the federal government would encourage local police, teachers, medical and social service employees to rate the communities, individuals and families they serve for their potential to become terrorists is abhorrent on its face,” says former FBI agent Mike German calling the criteria used for the ratings “subjective and specious.” Arun Kundnani questions the science behind the rating system. “There’s no evidence to support the idea that terrorism can be substantively correlated with such factors to do with family, identity, and emotional well-being," says Kundnani. "“It is obvious that, in practice, [this] would mostly only be applied to Muslim communities."

 
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by gnuman on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:54PM

    by gnuman (5013) on Saturday February 14 2015, @08:54PM (#145017)

    but my neighbor is. If you take them away to re-education camps, maybe I'll be able to buy their land cheaply from government reposition as a sort of a thank you. Or at very least, they will no longer bother me. You know, we all benefit from this right?

    (this was sarcasm, if you don't get sarcasm)

    More seriously, this reminds me of Stalinist purge tactics, where if a neighbor didn't like you and they had more influence than you, could have you taken away to gulags or worse because you were a "spy" or other undesirable. That ended well.

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  • (Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:11PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:11PM (#145022)

    Brings back those fond memories of the child spies in 1984. You have nothing to worry about from your neighbors, do you neighbor?

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:22PM (#145028)

    but my neighbor is. If you take them away to re-education camps, maybe I'll be able to buy their land cheaply from government reposition as a sort of a thank you. Or at very least, they will no longer bother me. You know, we all benefit from this right?

    Sarcasm or not, that is exactly what happened to the land owned by people put into the japanese internment camps. When they got out, they had no recourse and had to start over again.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Fauxlosopher on Sunday February 15 2015, @09:06AM

      by Fauxlosopher (4804) on Sunday February 15 2015, @09:06AM (#145226) Journal

      Wait - you're saying that not only does that sort of baseless roundup of people, done without due process of law, have the potential to happen "here" in the USA, but that it has already happened [ushistory.org]!?

      ... and that when it did happen, it hasn't yet happened to people whose chosen religion was Islam [blogspot.com]? ... and that same sort of criminal aggression from government could be directed at any particular group of people that happen to be at least somewhat socially unpopular [rawstory.com]?

      Of course, when governments disregard their own founding law, it is as a consequence expected that its agents' behavior takes dangerous tacks such as this. All the more reason for individuals to be motivated to ensure that, should they live in a country ostensively governed by the rule of - and equality under - the law, government officials are held to account for their actions.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Bot on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:31PM

    by Bot (3902) on Saturday February 14 2015, @09:31PM (#145034) Journal

    > “It is obvious that, in practice, [this] would mostly only be applied to Muslim communities."

    I think that a system that made muslims move to the first world is likely going to use them for a broader scope than disposing of them.

    In fact, the system who uses money as the mean of control, explicitly inquires about people who are into religion, nationalism or other value systems and equate them to terrorists because all other value systems are in competition with money.

    So, people will likely be pitted against each other because of other value systems until we give up on them.

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    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @03:22AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @03:22AM (#145139)

      Yes, not only applied. Islamasists are not the only group breeding terrorists. Just the most obvious right now.

      I cannot disagree with this theory. People who announce to the world that they are dangerous should be watched.. so long as they leave the rest of us alone.

      The idea of shipping them all to one secure place and enforcing a maximum technology level to match their society is appealing but unlikely. WIRM.

    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday February 15 2015, @04:27AM

      by HiThere (866) on Sunday February 15 2015, @04:27AM (#145165) Journal

      I'm rather sure that he meant it would only be used against Muslims at first .

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      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @06:22AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @06:22AM (#145193)

        Therein lies the problem. The muslims are making the world a worse place with their actions. One way or the other. Which is worse? A world ruled by islam or 1984 world?

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:51AM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:51AM (#145211) Journal

          No - a very small number of Muslims are turning to violence and radicalism. 'Terrorists' have been bred by many nationalities, religions and ethnic groups throughout the ages. You are in danger, accidentally or otherwise, of making the situation worse yourself, and then people will be able to say 'Anonymous Cowards are making the world a worse place with their actions'.

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          • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Fauxlosopher on Sunday February 15 2015, @10:45AM

            by Fauxlosopher (4804) on Sunday February 15 2015, @10:45AM (#145243) Journal

            Bill Warner sums up the results of a Pew Research poll in regards to percentages of Muslims that support Sharia law [youtube.com]. It's true that a minority of Islam's followers polled did not support the extremism that is contained within Sharia law... but the actual percentage of supporters does not reflect a "very small number".

            It's not socially acceptable for a "first-worlder" to criticize Islam... but then few "first-worlders" have bothered to examine Islam's own source code [youtube.com] (the Koran as well as the Hadith/Traditions). It is true there are peaceful Muslims, but one needs to look to Islam's source code [prophetofdoom.net] to determine just who the "good Muslims" are.

            It is also worthwhile to note that "being Muslim" has nothing to do with a person's genetic composition. Islam is either a religion or a political system - it is not a race.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @11:23AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @11:23AM (#145247)

              Summed up very well on the first page in one paragraph.

              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday February 15 2015, @01:51PM

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 15 2015, @01:51PM (#145276) Journal
                The first page of which document? I'm not disagreeing with you, it just that I cannot work out which summation you are referring to.
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                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @02:30PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @02:30PM (#145283)

                  After scratching my head for a while, I believe the AC may be referring to the "Letter to the Reader" at the beginning of Craig Winn's book, Prophet of Doom, which I linked to. (The website is in a shabby state, currently. It used to contain the entire book in multiple formats, but now hosts just PDFs.) Here's the first three paragraphs for reference:

                  islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories.
                  Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust
                  for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. If you think these conclusions
                  are shocking, wait until you see the evidence.

                  The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist,
                  hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agree—but I didn’t
                  write those parts. They came directly from Islam’s scriptures. If you don’t like
                  what Muhammad and Allah said, don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger.

                  Others will say that I cherry-picked the worst of Islam to render an unfair
                  verdict. They will charge that I took the Islamic scriptures out of context to
                  smear Muhammad and Allah. But none of that is true. Over the course of
                  these pages, I quote from almost every surah in the Qur’an—many are
                  presented in their entirety. But more than that, I put each verse in the context of
                  Muhammad’s life, quoting vociferously from the Sunnah as recorded by
                  Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq, and Tabari—Islam’s earliest and more trusted sources.
                  I even arrange all of this material chronologically, from creation to terror.

                  • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:01PM

                    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:01PM (#145337) Journal

                    Thanks - that makes the GP clearer, although I don't agree with his point of view.

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                    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:23PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 15 2015, @07:23PM (#145348)

                      If you're referring to disagreement with the content of Fauxlosopher's reference to Prophet of Doom, then may I ask about what you've found to disagree with?

                      The Koran as it sits on my shelf has each Surah/chapter organized by its length. It is not assembled in chronological order. The history of each piece of the text is important according to the Koran itself, in Surah 2:106 [quran.com]. Newer Surahs that come into conflict with older ones replace, abrogate older Surahs.

                      Why this is important becomes clear when you examine the history of Islam's origins. Mohummad started Islam in Mecca as a peaceful religion, and the Koran reflects this in the earlier Surahs that read "there is no compulsion in Islam". As far as numbers of followers go, early Islam was a failure with only a handful of adherents. Mohummad then went to Medina and took an entirely different approach, that of the warrior/bandit-king. The Koran records Surahs from this time period with text such as "strike the necks of the kafir until all religion is for Allah". This later flavor of Islam was a resounding success, and as it reflects the last direction given from Mohammad, it has abrogated all the peaceful-sounding parts of early Islam.

                      Prophet of Doom is heavy with citations from Islam's own source code, as well as parallel history to put all the pieces in their historical order.

                      Now, you're free to hold a different opinion of Islam, but when someone disagrees that while early Islam was proclaimed peacefully, the peaceful coexistence aspects were abrogated to a literal call for world war, that someone isn't disagreeing with an AC on the internets. That someone is disagreeing with the Hadiths and the Koran, which is what Islam is.

            • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday February 16 2015, @06:37PM

              by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday February 16 2015, @06:37PM (#145739) Journal

              poll in regards to percenteges of Evangelicals who support Biblical law. [pewforum.org]

              six-in-ten (60%) white evangelical Protestants say that the Bible should be the guiding principle in making laws when it conflicts with the will of the people...

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday February 15 2015, @09:38AM

          by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Sunday February 15 2015, @09:38AM (#145237)

          What? What about the people who are actually implementing these unconstitutional and freedom-violating policies? They are not being forced to do so. There needs to be some personal responsibility.

          As for which is worse, that's a false dichotomy. I want neither of those things, so it doesn't really matter which is worse. But if we're going to go down, I'd rather go down fighting than surrender our liberties in the name of safety.

  • (Score: 2) by Konomi on Sunday February 15 2015, @01:29AM

    by Konomi (189) on Sunday February 15 2015, @01:29AM (#145118)
    Is your neighbour Japanese by any chance? Internment of Japanese Americans [wikipedia.org]