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from the it-could-be-used-to-make,-well,-anything! dept.
FedEx is refusing to ship Texas nonprofit Defense Distributed's computer controlled mill, the Ghost Gunner. The $1,500 tool can carve aluminum objects from digital designs, including AR-15 lower receivers from scratch or more quickly from legally obtainable "80 percent lowers".
When the machine was revealed last October, Defense Distributed's pre-orders sold out in 36 hours. But now FedEx tells WIRED it's too wary of the legal issues around homemade gunsmithing to ship the machine to customers. "This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals," FedEx spokesperson Scott Fiedler wrote in a statement. "We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated."
But buying, selling, or using the Ghost Gunner isn't illegal, nor is owning an AR-15 without a serial number, says Adam Winkler, a law professor at UCLA and the author of Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America. "This is not that problematic," he says. "Federal law does not prohibit individuals from making their own firearms at home, and that includes AR-15s."
Defense Distributed's founder Cody Wilson argues that rather than a legal ambiguity, FedEx is instead facing up to the political gray area of enabling the sale of new, easily accessible tools that can make anything-including deadly weapons. "They're acting like this is legal when in fact it's the expression of a political preference," says Wilson. "The artifact that they're shipping is a CNC mill. There's nothing about it that is specifically related to firearms except the hocus pocus of the marketing." Wilson, whose radically libertarian group has pursued projects ranging from 3-D printed guns to untraceable cryptocurrency, says he chose to ship his Ghost Gunner machines with FedEx specifically because the company has a special NRA firearm industry membership. But when he told a local FedEx representative what he'd be shipping, he says the sales rep responded that he'd need to check with a superior. "This is no big deal, right? It's just a mill," Wilson says he told his FedEx contact. "You guys ship guns. You've shipped 3-D printers and mills, right? You'll ship a drill press, right? Same difference."
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Wednesday February 25 2015, @08:02PM
I understand what Cody is trying to point out, that gun control is futile, but we live in a world run by sociopathic nightmares and I fear that instead of just more gun control legislation, we'll be seeing all kinds of controls on CNC mills and 3D printers. I highly doubt that politicians will just back down and so I think Cody might be making the situation much much worse. Or maybe that is what he wants -- when everyone with access to a CNC or 3D printer has to get a Federal background check, maybe people will bitch. But I doubt it, only geeks and artists are really interested in these things right now and we just aren't most people. Cody is fucking things up.
Notice how it's not the "sociopathic nightmares" who fuck things up despite all the less than endearing things you say about them.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 25 2015, @08:19PM
sociopathic nightmare == politician
Thought that was obvious.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 25 2015, @09:22PM
If the law is so unstable that a single loudmouth can create reams of bad law, then we're only a flimsy pretext away from whatever the politicians want. They don't need a real world Cody. A fake straw man Cody without the backtalk works even better.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 25 2015, @10:47PM
My point is that he is taking a stick and poking the bear, so the bear looks over here and attacks. He doesn't have to poke the bear. He can leave them to fuss about medicare or something like that.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 26 2015, @06:54AM
My point is that he is taking a stick and poking the bear, so the bear looks over here and attacks.
There is no bear attack without a bear. Get rid of the damn bear. My view is that the problem here is that we don't have enough people poking the bear with sticks.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday February 26 2015, @04:20PM
You can't get rid of the bear with an extreme minority who is generally looked down upon. That's just deluded.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 26 2015, @05:48PM
You can't get rid of the bear with an extreme minority who is generally looked down upon.
Remind me again why the extreme minority is the problem and not the bear? Because that remains your argument and I still don't buy it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 26 2015, @06:18PM
What is also ignored here is that the problem can be willfully triggered also by parties who have an interest in keeping the problem unfixed. This makes your argument futile since a ban on scary 3-D printers will happen sooner or later, unless we fix the problem.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday February 27 2015, @10:38PM
OK -- you explain how to fix the bear in concrete terms. I don't have any idea on how to do that. I've done protests. I've done letter writing. Showing up in person at my Rep's office. I vote neither DNC nor GOP. I do my best to avoid financially supporting those who support things against my interests. I use GPG daily and evangelize it when I can (offer private help, done public demo/installfest).
The fact is, I can't write a check for millions of dollars. As a result, my voice means absolutely nothing at all. Secondly, I'm not a reality TV star, so my voice travels almost nowhere, and if I was a reality TV star, it would sound like "arrrrr.... Got more bEER! hahaha!!"
So, how exactly, in concrete terms, do you propose we prevail over the dangerous bear, and over all the blind supporters propping up that bear?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 28 2015, @06:45PM
OK -- you explain how to fix the bear in concrete terms.
Well, we're seeing here the Cody way. Go over the top with more and more elaborate schemes for circumventing bad intentions and regulations. It's potentially quite effective asymmetric warfare. Cody comes up with a cheap way to bypass bad regulation. The government attempts to respond with heavy handed regulation that hurts a lot of people. People like you.Sure, you would normally be perfectly willing to slink along with the status quo,but now have to make a decision just because Cody made a CNC milling machine with effective marketing. Either curb government power or lose something important to you. Eventually, if the government doesn't curb its excesses, it'll alienate enough people that its excesses will get curbed for it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 25 2015, @08:50PM
My concerns are not unfounded, it's already happening
In the wake of the first fully-functional 3-D printed gun, more lawmakers are proposing regulations to prevent these weapons from reaching dangerous hands. Sen. Leland Yee (D-Calif.) went a step beyond other proposals by calling for laws that would track the 3-D printers themselves as well as people with access to them, out of concern that someone who uses the technology could create a gun.
http://www.ibtimes.com/3d-printer-regulation-proposed-democrats-fear-criminals-printing-guns-1254537 [ibtimes.com]
So again, while I understand Cody's arguments, by shouting them to the world he is going to make the world much worse for geeks and artists looking to use these tools. And once you have to register with the government, or get clearance to use a 3D printer, it gives the government much more power over you. It's essentially the same beef gun owners have with gun registration. Cody is in a way, making it easier to expand that sort of government overreach -- do you really think all the soccer moms and little league dads give a crap about geeks' freedom to tinker? They should because their world is so much better for it, but they don't -- all they think of is the astronomically remote possibility that their precious snowflake will be shot by a plastic gun or a ghost gun.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday February 25 2015, @09:16PM
So again, while I understand Cody's arguments, by shouting them to the world he is going to make the world much worse for geeks and artists looking to use these tools. And once you have to register with the government, or get clearance to use a 3D printer, it gives the government much more power over you. It's essentially the same beef gun owners have with gun registration. Cody is in a way, making it easier to expand that sort of government overreach -- do you really think all the soccer moms and little league dads give a crap about geeks' freedom to tinker? They should because their world is so much better for it, but they don't -- all they think of is the astronomically remote possibility that their precious snowflake will be shot by a plastic gun or a ghost gun.
Or you could, you know, not put up with that shit. You're blaming the messenger.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 25 2015, @09:25PM
Exactly how do I "not put up with that shit"? The think-of-the-children, OMG-terrorism contingent is so brainwashed and so large -- and they do not care about geek issues -- that I'm supposed to do what? Give me some solid examples of what I can do to protect my right to tinker when people like Cody Wilson are doing their utmost to prove to the soccermom contingent that all the tools I want to use make me a danger to the world.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday February 25 2015, @09:36PM
You live on this planet with millions or billions of other potential tinkerers. You have to assume that something like this will happen with new tools. Every loophole or legal boundary will be tested. The question is, will the government outlaw the tool, or merely what you can make with the tool? If they don't outlaw the tool, you accept the consequences of making a gun, bomb, GMO, laser, x-ray weapon [nbcnewyork.com], etc. But it is unlikely you will get caught simply for having it. If they outlaw the tool, will you be able to get the tool? 3D printers can't replicate themselves entirely yet, but any files or information you need will be easily available and largely uncensorable on the Internet.
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(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday February 25 2015, @09:50PM
Forgive me if I'm hesitant to use an illegal tool. In the calculus of life, is it really worth spending 20 years in a PMITA prison to make a custom enclosure for an arduino project or a stupid plastic figurine? The only way it would make sense is if 80% of the population was willing to take this risk too, and I doubt you'd find even 0.8% of the population even that interested in the tools.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday February 25 2015, @10:05PM
I think encryption, 3d printing and CNC mills are reasonably safe.
Hobbyist drones and RC toys? Fucked.
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(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 26 2015, @07:01AM