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The company's CEO claims that affordable and reliable vehicles with combustion engines are a priority for US buyers:
Mazda is late to the electrification party. The MX-30 is far from being the roaring success the Japanese automaker had hoped it would be. It was axed from the United States at the end of the 2023 model year due to poor sales. The range-extending version with a rotary engine is only offered in certain markets, and the US is not on the list. In addition, the EZ-6 electric sedan isn't coming here either. However, the situation isn't all that bad.
Why? Because Americans primarily want gas cars. Speaking with Automotive News, Mazda CEO Masahiro Moro said ICE has a long future in America. Even at the end of the decade, traditional gas cars and mild-hybrid models will make up about two-thirds of annual sales. Plug-in hybrids and EVs will represent the remaining third. In other words, most vehicles will still have a gas engine five years from now.
Mazda's head honcho primarily referred to entry-level models, specifically the 3 and CX-30. Moro believes EV growth in the US has slowed down in the last 18 months or so, adding the trend will likely continue in the foreseeable future. That buys the company more time to develop a lithium-ion battery entirely in-house. The goal is to have it ready for 2030 in plug-in hybrids and purely electric cars. Expect a much higher energy density and "very short" charging times. Interestingly, the engineers already have a "very advanced research base for solid-state batteries."
In the meantime, work is underway on a two-rotor gas engine that will serve as a generator.
Related:
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Frosty Piss on Thursday December 12 2024, @11:34PM (22 children)
The fact is, at the moment, EVs are for the most part a luxury item. As well, most people - while accepting that EVs may ultimately be the future - the "environmentally friendliness" factor is largely PR fluff, what with the nature of battery production and the current actual sources of electrical energy. In other words, for now they are Rich People Toys.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aafcac on Friday December 13 2024, @02:07AM
They're mainly luxury goods because they're being priced like that. Sure, people in rural areas may need more than what an EV can do, but if you've got a charger at home and/or one at work you probably don't need massive batteries. Around here, the electric utility has been starting to install charging stations just on the side of streets in addition to the ones that have been installed in parking lots. Charging at home remains a serious issue as many people don't even have the option of installing one.
Personally, I live in an area with decent mass transit and I've contemplated getting something along the lines of an EV scooter to bridge the gap between what the buses and trains can do in terms of coverage and where I need to go, but unfortunately, the local laws are kind of weird in terms of what you're allowed to do where. You're not allowed to ride them on the sidewalks at all, or on the streets if the speed limit is over 34mph which means that if there isn't a bike lane, then you can't use them at all on that stretch of the street.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stormreaver on Friday December 13 2024, @02:08AM (9 children)
I think he's partially right. I'm going to slightly rewrite the topic sentence to be correct:
"Affordable and reliable vehicles are a priority for US buyers"
Now that's correct. Few people can afford to care whether their vehicles are electric or gas. I can't, so I don't. I care about being able to afford it, and that it's going to last many years.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 13 2024, @03:58AM (8 children)
A priority for me is: a vehicle which can be repaired.
The mid-80s Mercedes diesels were just about peak of that curve, many still chugging along today with 400K+ miles.
Take that tech and instead of making it flashier, just keep making it run longer, easier to maintain, cheaper to repair.
Fuel economy be damned, chucking 5000lbs of steel and increasingly plastic into the waste stream every ten years or 200,000 miles is a crime against nature, un-necessary waste made un-avoidable in the pursuit of profits. Auto manufacturing is already a highly regulated, highly subsidized and incentivized game - turn longevity and low TCO into the prize for the manufacturers to compete for, instead of sales volume numbers.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 13 2024, @05:24AM
You are optimizing the wrong metric, my friend.
The world has moved onto expensive statusmobiles. If you're priced out, that's the point duh. Owning 2,3,4 Buhattis, a truck + trailer, 4 off-road trikes and a boat is the sweet spot. Fuck y'all. Sucks 2 be u.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 13 2024, @05:55AM
Death on four wheels. Unstoppable
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 13 2024, @11:06AM (3 children)
> A priority for me is: a vehicle which can be repaired.
How about a vehicle that doesn't need many repairs. Cue all the electric car fans (of course), but I'll go back to cheaper ICE (and hybrid Prius) days -- Toyotas from the 1990s up to about 2010. Those were the years when Toyota was focused on continuous improvement of the production process and on quality/longevity. Toward the end of that run the management could see that Toyota was in striking distance of GM in terms of number of vehicles made per year and they changed their focus to "winning" that competition. Yes, Toyota now makes more cars than any other company, but quality suffered.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 14 2024, @03:12PM (2 children)
No repairs is even better.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 14 2024, @03:17PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 14 2024, @03:40PM
It's all about TCO. When the AI works for free, gathers its own materials and energy, leaves zero ecological footprint in the process, they yeah: turn 'em loose.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by stormreaver on Saturday December 14 2024, @02:02AM (1 child)
I agree that repairability is important. I lump that into affordability.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 14 2024, @03:30PM
All in the same vein. If you can run 200,000 miles without maintenance, that's a great achievement. Whether it's self-sufficiency requiring zero repairs, or modular design whereby I can pop the hood, pull out the worn component in 2 minutes or less, pop in a new one (delivered to my home via common carrier), and send back the core for a small refurbishing fee... either is fine.
I don't want to put mechanics out of business, but I do want their jobs made easier to where repairs are as fast, cheap and reliable as possible. Obviously independent mechanics should be on equal footing with dealerships in terms of access to information and parts. Parts themselves should be as universally compatible as possible.
All these things should be folded into a TCO metric, and the manufacturers should be incentivized to sell the vehicles with the lowest possible TCO. I like the following basic structures:
Progressive initial vehicle sales tax. In today's US market, that might look like: zero tax on vehicles up to $20K actual sales price, 5% on everything over $20K, an additional 10% on everything over $40K, an additional 20% on everything over $60K, an additional 40% on everything over $80K, and if you feel the need to spend more than $100K on a vehicle, an additional 25% (meaning a total of 100% tax) on everything over $100K. This means that a vehicle with $100K sales price would be taxed 5% of 80, 10% of 60, 20% of 40, 40% of 20 and 25% of nothing, or +$26K, but a vehicle with an initial sales price of $120K would be taxed $46K, $150K would be +$76K or a net tax rate of 50.6%, $200K would be +$126K or 63%, and by the time you're in McLaren territory you're paying close to double for your luxury vehicle. Trust me, if you can afford the McLaren, you can afford the tax - even if you're pissy about it.
Take those high initial cost of purchase taxes and re-distribute them back, to the manufacturers, for vehicles still in service - with bonuses for vehicles on the road meeting modern emissions and fuel economy guidelines. No credit in the first year on the road. 1% of the tax pool goes back to the makers of all vehicles which have been in service for more than a year, proportionally based on the number of their vehicles still in service and the miles they have driven (50% of the credit just for being registered and insured, the other half to be distributed proprotionally based on total miles driven of vehicles in the group). An additional 1% for vehicles that have been in service more than 2 years, an additional 1% for 3 years, and so on up to 50 years or more in service. For vehicles in service that demonstrate meet TODAY's emissions and fuel economy guidelines, bump that 1% to 2%.
Big changes are a shock to industry, roll that scheme in over the next 20 years with a linear ramp up, and linearly ramp down all other incentives, tax convolutions, etc. currently propping up the automotive and truck industries, including electric incentives. If electrics really are better, let them earn their returns on low TCO. I'm assuming that vehicles which are difficult (aka expensive) to repair will be the ones being sold for scrap, falling out of the manufacturer's bonus tax return pools.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ledow on Friday December 13 2024, @08:18AM (8 children)
I want an EV for reason entirely unrelated to anything to do with the environment.
I want one because:
- They're cheaper to run.
- You can "fuel" them up at home. At work. Anywhere you have a plug.
- Vastly reduced maintenance and moving parts.
- They're just as - and often far more - performant.
People want gas cars because:
- They make a noise like brrm, brrm.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Friday December 13 2024, @08:27AM
And, specifically for the US, people want F150s, which are essentially 1970s gas-guzzlers moved into a form factor that bypasses CAFE requirements.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday December 13 2024, @11:42AM
I've been driving fairly small hybrids for over a decade for similar reasons:
1. It gets extremely good distance per amount of fuel: About 1.6 * gas powered sedan, and about 2.5 * a pickup. That's extremely handy when gas prices skyrocket like they do periodically because of reasons that are totally not price gouging or weird stuff on the commodities markets.
2. Since I'm not infrequently on the road for distances beyond the range of a single tank, refueling time matters. That's why a full EV isn't yet really suitable.
3. Maintenance has not been substantially worse than a gas-only vehicle.
It's one of those cases where "spend money up front to save money in the long run" is very much in play.
And I'll add that if you're in one of the more enlightened locations, it's fairly easy to add solar power generation capacity to your home, and that brings your running cost to fuel an EV or plugin-hybrid down even more, even to $0.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2, Troll) by DadaDoofy on Friday December 13 2024, @01:06PM (4 children)
You've never own an EV have you? Almost half the people who have wouldn't buy another one.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jun/22/46-of-us-electric-car-owners-want-to-switch-back-t/ [washingtontimes.com]
Now that the truth is out, they have to practically give them away.
https://www.aiada.org/ev-leases-go-as-low-as-20-a-month-to-help-dealers-clear-their-lots/ [aiada.org]
(Score: 1, Troll) by Frosty Piss on Friday December 13 2024, @07:56PM (1 child)
A yes, the Washington Times, which seems to be your favorite source of Right Wing Propaganda. Very "reliable" - defiantly in quotes.
(Score: 1, Troll) by DadaDoofy on Saturday December 14 2024, @11:59AM
Before you regurgitate your spoon fed CNN/MSNBC talking points, maybe you should crack one open and see for yourself. About half their "news" comes from Associated Press articles they reprint. So yes, you'll need to avoid those if you are concerned about reliability. If that's too heavy a lift for you, here is a link directly to the cited study.
https://executivedigest.sapo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Mobility-Consumer-Pulse-2024_Overview.pdf [executivedigest.sapo.pt]
(Score: 2, Touché) by cmdrklarg on Friday December 13 2024, @08:50PM
You obviously haven't either. That also means that over half WOULD buy another one.
And where exactly are these $20/month leases?
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Saturday December 14 2024, @04:22PM
Strange, because similar surveys in the EU said that 1% of EV owners would change back to an ICE.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by vux984 on Saturday December 14 2024, @12:12AM
but they cost more upfront; you aren't really saving money if the financing costs are eating those savings
Yeah, anywhere you have a plug, which is actually a major issue. Most people in townhouses/condos/apartments and renting basement suites do not have access to a plug at home or at work.
I had nowhere to plug in when i lived in a townhouse, not at home, nor at work. I have a garage now, but my kids park on the street, and they don't have access to plugs at work either. I doubt if even half the urban population can actually can plug in "conveniently", and this is a HUGE deal. If you can't plug in I'm not sure an EV makes any sense at all. From what I've read - the VAST majority of EV owners can charge at home suggesting pretty clearly that people who don't have access to a plug at home aren't buying EV cars.
It is 100% true the electric drive train needs virtually no service. But its also true that gas car drive trains are pretty bullet proof too, especially for the first 10 years. There's a reason they have the longest warranty on the car. So you don't have to replace the timing chain or clutch every 10-20 years in your EV, hurrah.
The suspension will still collapse, the tires wear out, the autolevelling headlight will fail, and lane keeping sensors will work intermittently, the sunroof jams, the power door lock on the rear passenger stops working, the mirror adjustment motor breaks, the seat adjustment controls don't work, the rear view camera cover intermittently doesn't open, the air conditioning condenser dies, the ventilation fan in the rear driver side climate zone starts buzzing, bluetooth keeps resetting the connection to your phone during calls, the app won't unlock the doors, the wiper fluid tank cracks and leaks... EV cars are still chock FULL the stuff that breaks.
I have 3 cars, and drive train issues is simply not where I'm spending money on them. The 23 year old one has had its timing belt replaced twice as part of regular service intervals, and its clutch replaced once. And I've spent a few thousand over the years fixing oil leaks and doing the regular drive train maintenance. But the cost of that is dwarfed by the 'other stuff' i've had to do over the years. And at 23 years I'd probably be into a new battery pack on an EV.
Yea, markedly faster off the line than most cars especially cars at similar price points, with a low centre of gravity. Fun to hit the gas and feel the torque hit right away. I'll give you that.
But most are also limited by thermals (ie most can't be driven aggressively for long without overheating), and thus can't really be used as weekend track toys at all.
And most are really heavy making them land yachts in comparison to actual performance cars.
Bottom line, If you want an actual performance car, you probably aren't buying an EV.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Username on Friday December 13 2024, @06:18PM
I think they work well for delivery vehicles. Amazon runs them all the time. I'd love to know what their mechanics think. I think they just rotate them on each load. If i were them, they'd drive two hours, come back and put on charger, pickup other van that's loaded and repeat.
(Score: 2) by corey on Sunday December 15 2024, @10:21PM
I’ve seen analysis by experts in the field that conclude over the lifetime of an EV, they are much better for the environment - carbon emissions. This idea that the battery manufacture offsets the CO2 emissions from ICE cars is not true.
But more to the topic at hand, I think EVs in the US are rapidly becoming affordable for average people, same as here in Australia, due to Chinese imports. But Trump will change that when he gets the reigns of power.