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from the founding-fathers-didn't-have-tazers dept.
Massachusetts' ban on the private possession of stun guns—an "electrical weapon" under the statute—does not violate the Second Amendment right to bear arms, the state's top court has ruled.
The decision says ( http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/stungunMA-ruling.pdf ) (PDF) that the US Constitution's framers never envisioned the modern stun-gun device, first patented in 1972. The top court said stun guns are not suitable for military use, and that it did not matter whether state lawmakers have approved the possession of handguns outside the home.The court, ruling in the case of a Massachusetts woman caught with stun gun, said the stun gun is a "thoroughly modern invention" not protected by the Second Amendment, although handguns are protected.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday March 10 2015, @08:38PM
The text of the second amendment is probably one of the most fiercely debated subjects in constitutional law.
The militia angle has been thoroughly debunked as the principal and primary justification, by constitutional scholars researching the writings of the conventions as well as those demanding a bill of rights.
Most of these recognize that the amendment had nothing to do with militia service, and was designed to allow the active resistance to a run-away government. Having just overthrown a king, the country was well aware of the need for arms. Militia also does not mean military. A militia was always a STATE force, never a federal army. Those writing the bill of rights didn't want to appear to be blessing the overthrow, so they dialed it back to what might be needed to form or serve in a state militia, seemingly eliminating cannon, etc. But remember, the primary intent was to prevent a dictatorial government.
The 2nd never mentioned "firearms". It just mentioned "arms".
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday March 11 2015, @03:44AM
The text of the second amendment is probably one of the most fiercely debated subjects in constitutional law.
Only by the dishonest. Any High School English teacher worthy of their position (well ok, maybe not these days, but twenty years ago) can diagram out the one sentence composing the 2nd Amendment and tell you which parts are which. The SCOTUS itself did a pretty definitive job of it themselves in their recent decison in Heller. The quality of the scholarship in the two opinions wasn't even close. One side was basing it's opinion in the clear text of the Amendment as written in the English Language understood at the time, the Law as written and understood at the time, etc. The other was 'guns are scary and we don't give a damn what old white guys wrote two hundred years ago.'
So I'd have written that as "The text of the second amendment is probably the most subject to cheap demagoguery in all of Constitutional law." As you wrote it you were implying the other side was arguing in good faith. They weren't.
A militia was always a STATE force...
That line of argument still leads to a reading of the 2nd where the government is granting itself the right to have weapons. No, the 'militia' encompasses every able bodied male capable of being mustered into military service. The word by itself encompasses both the organized militia (at the time including a lot of private militia companies, often employer based) along with the 'unorganized militia.'
The 2nd never mentioned "firearms". It just mentioned "arms".
Yup, amazing how few gun banners (and even some 'gun nuts') seem utterly convinced the 2nd is protecting the right to own guns. Nope, ALL arms. Private militia companies of the day owned cannon. I'd be willing to compromise though, just to prove how willing I am to reach across the isle and meet the other side half way and all that. How about crew served weapons must be held in a licensed militia company's armory which must meet standards of security, etc. but any personal arm is Constitutional Carry.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 11 2015, @05:15AM
So one side was reading the amendment clearly as it was written, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."
And the other side, despite being all "guns are scary", decided to ignore literally half of the amendment as written, which is how the "well regulated Militia" part ended up being completely ignored?
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday March 11 2015, @04:44PM
This ignorant and illiterate argument? Really?
Lets just keep the argument simple here on a dead thread. Do you know the difference between an army and the militia? The men who wrote the 2nd Amendment did. The militia is every able bodied male capable of bearing arms, expected to appear when called armed and trained to defend their homeland. An army is a permanent military force trained and armed by the State. The Founders knew armies to be dangerous to liberty while a well regulated (not so much regulated in the modern sense, a dictionary is your friend) and well armed militia was both a defender and a friend of a Free People.
But if you were taught English in school you also know the expository clause doesn't limit the very clear final phrase. Also finally, remember that the entire Bill of Rights must be read in the sense they were proposed and ratified, as additional limitations on a Federal Government that some thought had been given too much power in the original Constitution. The status quo at the time was the possession of arms was universally agreed to be a basic human right and there is zero historical evidence that anyone who wrote the 2nd Amendment or that a single legislator who voted to ratify it meant to in any way limit the inherent Right of Free Men for self defense, a Right that goes back into English Common Law a long way before the Revolution. If you read the 2nd in the same way as the other nine, as limits of the power of the Federal Government to infringe the Rights of the People, there is only one way to interpret it.
Please spend the hour or so needed to go actually read the SCOTUS's actual decision in Heller, it is an argument ender unless you are a Progressive and thus heedless of any argument because you simply reject the premise of the argument, that we are living in a Constitutional Republic and the Rule of Law.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 11 2015, @09:11PM
And the other side, despite being all "guns are scary", decided to ignore literally half of the amendment as written, which is how the "well regulated Militia" part ended up being completely ignored?
English working as intended. There's no point to this argument.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Wednesday March 11 2015, @10:33AM
That line of argument still leads to a reading of the 2nd where the government is granting itself the right to have weapons.
Minor quibble, but the constitution is not about the government granting itself any rights, it is about the people granting the government some rights.
sudo mod me up