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Scott Adams of Dilbert fame has posted a blog entry on gender discrimination. His goal is to gather as many links as possible on all sides of the issue; he intends to try to summarize what's out there in a subsequent post. His blog entry includes a few interesting, possibly insightful comments, for example:
"Some men are bullies and assholes. And most men are assholes at least some of the time. When men are bullies and assholes to each other, we interpret it as exactly that. But if I observe those same bullies and assholes mistreating a woman, I interpret it as sexism. I assume others see it the same way.
"The other day a good friend who works as a massage therapist was describing a time in her past she was a victim of gender discrimination. The story sounded convincing to me. Then I asked if she knew I would not have considered her as my massage therapist if she were a man. Cricket noises."
"My larger point today is that any discussion of gender in the workplace is like two blind people standing on an elephant and arguing whether the elephant is a sandwich or a bar of soap. Both are 100% wrong. That includes me."
Personally, I find Adams' writing to be frequently interesting — he at least tries to find his way around traditional blindspots. Sometimes he even succeeds. Since gender discrimination is so often a topic in technical fields, perhaps Soylentils will find this of interest...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Kell on Monday March 16 2015, @10:02AM
While redress is a noble idea in general, it's a naively simplistic appeal to an abstract sense of justice. For example, where do you draw the limit of redress? Do we go back and make right the wrongs of Mongol invaders? Are children responsible for the action of their forefathers? How do you determine who benefitted from what wrongs, and what is just redress? Who should pay to make that redress?
While sometimes it's obvious (eg. the plunder of thieves), often times it's not obvious at all. For example, should a white man descended from slavery abolitionists living in a slave state still pay to right the wrongs of other people? Clearly he benefits from "white privilege" but neither he nor his ancestors were part of the problem. What about people who moved to that country long after the fact? As a white Australian who moved to Connecticut for my post-doc, I've been told by Americans that I am somehow a beneficiary of black slavery, even though neither I nor my forebearers had ever even been to the US*.
When it is something as nebulous as "patriarchy", where women have historically been just as involved in asserting gender norms as men, where do you even begin? Sadly, the world is not just, and fighting for social justice will not succeed. Instead of saying "get even", we should be saying "never again".
* And before anyone starts, my Australian forefathers were Lutheran missionaries who were opposed to mistreatment of aboriginals. They served in the Logan Germantown mission, before going out past Toowoomba preaching to black and white alike.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Monday March 16 2015, @11:34AM
For example, where do you draw the limit of redress? Do we go back and make right the wrongs of Mongol invaders?
Even better example is the middle east. That is so dense with historical mistakes, that the movie quote of "nuke it from orbit just to be sure" applies quite well. I honestly think there is no other endgame for them other than that, if its declared to be time to right all the wrongs. However, none of the players likely want to be nuked from orbit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 16 2015, @06:41PM
> I honestly think there is no other endgame for them other than that,
Why is black-and-white thinking so seductive to geeks?
It seems especially so when the geeks have only the most superficial knowledge of the topics they opine on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 16 2015, @01:56PM
When it is something as nebulous as "patriarchy", where women have historically been just as involved in asserting gender norms as men,
Woah nelly!
When the oppressed go along to get along that doesn't make them "just as involved" unless by "involved" you mean living with it instead of making the enormous personal sacrifice of going against the entire tide of their society - defying friends, family and neighbors.
(Score: 1) by albert on Monday March 16 2015, @04:42PM
Men start life as boys, raised primarily by women. They are getting their values mainly from Mom. They see how Mom celebrates the birth of a boy, but aborts a daughter. They see how Mom is strict with girls. They see how Mom gives the girls less food.
It's all on the Mom, and thus on women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 16 2015, @06:39PM
> It's all on the Mom, and thus on women.
Wow. I can't tell if you are Poe's Lawing or not.
And apparently it is no longer possible to check a user's posting history to see if they have expressed such amazingly ignorant misogyny before.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday March 17 2015, @07:29AM
It's all on the Mom, and thus on women.
Wow. I can't tell if you are Poe's Lawing or not.
Evidently, we are dealing with an extreme, and perhaps literal, case of the Oedipus Complex. If you do not know what this is, I suggest you turn yourself in to the nearest psychiatric hospital. No need to be to specific. Just texting the post you have made here will be sufficient. Trust me. Because you are obviously a literal motherfucker. Get help, bro!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 17 2015, @07:21AM
Do we go back and make right the wrongs of Mongol invaders?
It's your father, you bastard descendant of the noble Khan that fucked you great, great, and not so great-grandmother. Represent! Stand up and take responsibility for your line of patriarchy! You sniveling son of a whore!