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The quite famous FOSS developer Poul-Henning Kamp (aka PHK) has posted his feedback to the EU regarding European Open Digital Ecosystems [Intro in Danish, article in English] and their call for evidence. In it he brings their attention to open standards in points 2 and 3:
At the most fundamental level, the EU has three options:
1. Pick and bless a set of winners, consisting of:
a) Operating system, portable to any reasonable computer architecture.
b) Text-processing, suitable for tasks up to a book.
c) Spreadsheet
d) Email client.
e) Web Browser
f) Accounting software, suitable for small organizations.and fund organizations to maintain, develop and support the software for the future as open source, turning that software into infrastructure like water, power and electricity, free for all, individuals, startups and established companies alike, to use and benefit from.
2. Continuously develop/pick, bless and meticulously enforce open standards of interoperability, and then "let the competition loose".
3. Both. By providing a free baseline and de-facto reference implementations for the open standards, "the market" will be free to innovate, improve and compete, but cannot (re)create walled gardens.
Indeed, if the protocols and file formats are not publicly documented, freely available, and royalty-free, then what benefit would there be to implement them, FOSS or not?
There is an unreproducable javascript link on the EC page which goes to a relevant PDF document. It is labeled, "Call for evidence - Ares(2026)69111". It is worth checking before sending in feedback. Although English is the main language, the other official languages of EU member states can be used. The deadline for feedback is 03 February 2026.
Previously:
(2025) Why People Keep Flocking to Linux in 2025 (and It's Not Just to Escape Windows)
(2025) Europe's Plan to Ditch US Tech Giants is Built on Open Source - and It's Gaining Steam
(2025) Euro Techies Call for Sovereign Fund to Escape US Dependency
(2025) Petition on EU Linux Operating System in Public Administrations
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Tuesday January 13, @05:20PM (5 children)
^^^^^ A thousand time, THIS ^^^^^
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 13, @06:09PM (4 children)
Just imagine: funding FOSS with 1/2 the money paid to M$...
Of course, a large portion of the M$ fees are for "handholding" - ( empty ) assurances from a big company that everything will be alright...
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, @06:13PM (3 children)
> Just imagine: funding FOSS with 1/2 the money paid to M$...
Or take that 1/2 and use 1/4 for FOSS developers and 1/4 for hookers and blow.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 13, @06:35PM (2 children)
> 1/4 for hookers and blow.
You mean: business as usual in the contracts selection department?
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, @06:52PM (1 child)
> You mean: business as usual in the contracts selection department?
Yes, that would be FOSS working with the system as it is, wouldn't it?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday January 14, @01:57PM
>Yes, that would be FOSS working with the system as it is, wouldn't it?
I guess the difficulty is in re-training the hookers and blow acquisition agents to work with developer support contracts instead of shrink-wrap license delivery... not sure they can handle something that complex.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, @05:30PM (1 child)
There should be a closing BLOCKQUOTE element just before the paragraph starting with "Indeed"
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday January 13, @08:40PM
Thanks - added and updated.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday January 13, @05:35PM (4 children)
Maybe they could start with chromebooks and migrate off slowly. I figure that would cover everything except the accounting software to start. Start with that, set up one of the free google-docs-alike competitors on a country-hosted server, and keep vectoring towards a completely free solution?
(Score: 2) by canopic jug on Tuesday January 13, @05:49PM (2 children)
TIL that ChromiumOS [wikipedia.org] is completely different from ChromeOS [gentoo.org].
However, the general premise of building something from Gentoo or another foundational distro like Arch makes a lot of sense. With the right staffing the EU member states could quickly have their own collective distro up and running. Translation and localization would take time and effort and have to be funded as well. The gotcha with a project like that is that there are so few people any more with basic computer skills that enticing them into a government job might be quite difficult unless they are patriotic enough. Even then you still want to reach those few people that are skilled not the subset of people willing (for whatever reasons) to take a government job.
Then there is also the problem of vetting the new staff to ensure that the standard Redmond practice of deploying moles does not happen.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday January 13, @06:14PM (1 child)
[Advertisement at the end]
Maybe the government could provide computer education and skills, as a cost of running the government. You know, like a "paid internship," or maybe just "job training," like they do for the armed forces. Too much hassle? Then they'll buy the skills from private (presumably local) contractors.
Going off the FAANG grid is going to take some money, but I suspect it's just the cost of moving to a nationally self-reliant information infrastructure. But it doesn't have to happen all at once, at thanks to (at least) Google's offerings being nearly all web-based, separable, and affordable.
[Semi-advertisement]
While I'm not casting Google as an evil overlord, they also have a special half-price deal which includes a crapload of "Pro" AI access [google.com], 2TB for the year, and all of it is sharable to 5 people, but it expires Jan 14 so if you want it, jump on it now. You may not have access to it from one of your Google accounts (if it's part of a family plan, for example), but may from a different one, so try a couple of your accounts.
I would normally *never* pitch for a specific product without going into depth on which features I like about it (I've already gotten benefits from the "Deep Research" Gemini feature), but this one is expiring pretty much right away and at the price it's worth it just to experiment with the whole suite. And I really suspect they're slashing the price on this now to jumpstart making them the AI platform of choice, because the pricing feels *very* loss-leader-ish for what it offers.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday January 13, @11:29PM
Sorry, I think it expires Jan 15.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Dr Spin on Wednesday January 14, @07:29AM
I think you have mis-understood the concept/proposal:
The idea is that the EU (ie a government covering the European continent all (significant) European Countries (each with a different language) - imagine all of North and South America) - yes,we do have one already - funds FOSS to create a distro which they all agree to use so as to ensure interoperability. And it is free to anyone who wants it, but with well funded professional maintenance and support for the specific requirements of all EC countries.
There is no reason for this to be based on any existing distro - although it could be.
After this decision has been taken, any PC manufacturer who does not support it sells no computers in Europe because European users are going to want at home what they use at work, and what they use at work has to be compatible with the government they pay tax to.
The entire thing is not for profit although the programmers get paid obviously.
Please NO AI because obviously there is no way to have any privacy/security in the face of AI. if you want AI on your machine, "do it yourself" ie YOU bear the risk which is unquantifiable and immense.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday January 13, @05:51PM (3 children)
How about a more modern architecture to install software.
I have not used b,c,d, or f natively in ... decades maybe.
You need a working (FOSS) OS and a working (FOSS) browser and a way to run docker. Now if you want to run insane workloads you need insane hardware but if you want to run office software anything raspi or better is OK up to and including docker installed on the same laptop thats running the browser. Yes about 99% of the internet insists you can only run Docker on Ubuntu but it works fine on windows I have seen it done and its not just a WSL hack (supposedly)
Then you hit up https://docs.linuxserver.io/images/docker-libreoffice/ [linuxserver.io]
And connect your web browser to https localhost:3001 or wtf.com:3001 raspi.local:3001 or whatever and you're "more or less" done. You gonna want to bind a directory thats permanent and backed up to /config in your OO container.
Note there is a raging debate among users if thats the "right" way to do it or below is the "right" way to do it.
https://docs.linuxserver.io/images/docker-webtop/ [linuxserver.io] "desktop linux in a container". Better pay attention to your tags. I like alpine-i3 and I like ubuntu-xfce. Now if you install proot app onlyoffice (not really OO but pretty good) you "may" have a better system than the above. Personally I disagree but whatever.
https://docs.linuxserver.io/images/docker-code-server/ [linuxserver.io] is kind of shit just install a webtop and run vscode on the webtop as a proot permanent(ish) software install (the thing thats "impossible" under docker but works anyway, long interesting story)
The conversion from KASM or whatever it was to Selkies about a year ago was VERY exciting but thats all in the rear view mirror now it "just works". And docker being what it is just lock your container to a specific old version using the tag its not a big deal if you're still mad about the Selkies conversion.
I like the freecad container, the calibre container, transmission container, inkscape, kicad, a couple others. I'd suggest run your own netbox, node-red, netboot-xyz, audiobookshelf, home automation (home assistant and music assistant) etc.
I've never exposed any of these to "the internet" although I know people who do who are "happy" about it. I VPN into systems running and accessible only from RFC1918 addresses. Also I use "real" K8S not ghetto docker on a windows laptop or whatever. I like my CEPH storage like anyone else would.
I use this architecture for work and at home, which at least makes it consistent. Most of the world I am in uses google docs or office 359 or whatever in a browser instead of OO but I keep the above around. Its kind of like "KASM for lazy people" if I had to make a slogan. I've never personally had any issue developing in a browser. It helps that my cluster is ENORMOUS compared to any laptop that doesn't require a forklift.
Anyway the architecture they seem to propose would be cutting edge in 2005. Legal/Government is always so far behind the times.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 13, @06:13PM (2 children)
What they really need is an IT staff who can:
A) setup and maintain these configurations on their machines for them
and
B) hold their hand and tell them, again, which icon to click to find that document they saved last week.
Staff costs money, and for every X headcount of users, they will need Y headcount of IT staff.
Unfortunately, every time you make a change to the official configuration, that Y becomes Y * 4 until everybody settles down and forgets they used to do it differently.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Disagree) by VLM on Wednesday January 14, @01:04PM (1 child)
Yeah I'd agree but consider a reproducible run-everywhere container would make life easier on whomever is running it.
The euros could take what exists for running OO or similar in a container, then euro the heck out of it I18N to the max, add the usual euro big brother is watching you support, etc.
There's probably some feather bedding going on where one dude could just do it given how far along existing projects are, but they're trying to set up a whole bureaucracy to "support" that one dude doing the actual work which sounds very EU.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday January 14, @01:52PM
> a reproducible run-everywhere container would make life easier on whomever is running it.
More or less, that's what Windows provides. Now, it's more complex than that of course since M$ has bullied the vendors of the world into writing their own drivers and installing and configuring them all before selling a Windows equipped PC, but... overall... there's still that somewhat plug-and-play "experience" in Windows that keeps their IT drones afraid of the alternatives.
The more that Linux maintainers can emulate that experience for their users, the better - all it takes is developer time (iow money, because developers have to eat...)
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday January 13, @06:05PM (3 children)
The people who you're trying to convince tend to be stuck in a model of procurement. The process goes something like this:
1. The people who have to use the tools, or their bosses, are asked to come up with a checklist of features that they want, and pass them to somebody with the authority to buy it.
2. The checklist of features turns into an RFP or something similar that gets distributed out to both the general public and the salespeople that the buyer has always worked with.
3. The salespeople fall over themselves glad-handing and promising that their stuff has satisfied 100% of the checklist features, for the low low price of €X. This part is the most fun for the buyer, because the salespeople get to use their corporate expense account to butter them up.
4. The buyer then picks one of the salespeople's bids, most likely the one that they picked before, until the next cycle.
5. The IT department and the people who have to use the tools then deal with the fact that the checklisted features only kinda sorta work as advertised.
An open-source project that has most or even all of the features that you need, combined with hiring a programmer or two to add whatever you need feature-wise and chip in on maintenance for that and the 10 other open-source things you use, doesn't fit into this process. Even if the cost is < €X, and even if instead of getting a feature matrix saying that you bought what you needed you get a programmer who builds you what you actually needed. In part because step 3 doesn't happen anymore and that's no fun, but also because the bureaucracy and mental model says that's not how things are done.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 4, Insightful) by canopic jug on Tuesday January 13, @06:11PM
I've noticed that in recent decades, point #2, the writing of the checklist, is done by the vendors themselves. That is done by them either outright or else by their embedded sales teams on the payroll of the victim organization. But, yeah, the check list has been a problem since the 1990s and still is a big one. Nowadays, does it matter at all that LibreOffice or Calligra has n% fewer 'features' than MSO if those missing n% are never, ever used? For most people, Calligra or LibreOffice meet 100% of their needs. What the government can do is push to require the OpenDocument Format for official communications and just like that, M$ monopoly over office suites goes away in the same instant.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 13, @06:16PM (1 child)
You're missing the "procurement CEO" level of things.
Somebody "manages the budget" of the department, division, region, etc. And the bigger that budget is, the bigger the salary of the budget manager is. It's a not so subtle dis-incentive to save money, right up there with "use it or lose it" mandates to spend all available budget dollars by end of the fiscal year, or have the following years' budgets decreased by the amount unspent...
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday January 13, @07:47PM
That's a very good point.
Although I assume that if an executive is trying to waste company money, there are plenty of other fun ways of doing it, e.g. sending the executive to Vegas or Dubai for a "business meeting", renovations for the executive offices, hiring a brother-in-law to do nothing in particular, etc etc. And all of those involve getting more direct personal benefit than running it through a sales drone and getting a kickback.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Wednesday January 14, @08:10AM
I have not heard of PHK so maybe not too much credit should be given, but 1 and 3 are simply no options. I'm at a loss how a (purportedly) FOSS advocate could suggest to pick "winners". Standards are key not only in software but in industry more generally to foster competition and quality.
Instead of salivating about the latest GUI updates in the "winning app", people should have a hard look at the current standard to decide what needs to be updated. And develop test suites to document and enforce the standards.