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What would you use if you couldn't use your current distribution/operating system?
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know.
-- Mark Twain
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, @07:38PM (42 children)
I have made no claims, and calling you weird while condemning your unwarranted flagging is hardly abuse. If you want to claim it is then apologize for also calling me weird while insulting my intelligence. Admit your censorship was wrong and I will then apologize and laude you admitting a personal mistake.
I imagine this too will be censored. Engage honest discussion, stop making so many assumptions, and this pointless back and forth stops. I don't think you can, just too mad, anxious or whatever.
I had a real point that was not directed at this site or yourself, you made that leap of assumption.
As to your answers, there were no questions for you to answer and your technical details do not solve the issue of trust and transparency in a multi-user system.
Thanks again for your insulting ignorant tangents ;-) If you would like to continue this discussion please quote the OP and highlight which part is confusing and I will try to clarify.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 25, @08:03PM (16 children)
All of it.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 3, Touché) by janrinok on Wednesday February 25, @08:18PM (14 children)
Or perhaps you would prefer "Sorry I was unclear. "WTF?""
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @03:49AM (13 children)
Yes, you brought up taking over site administration. A rather odd offer or whatever, it did not seem sincere. So WTF with all that?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @04:56AM (12 children)
Something, either a person or perhaps AI, has to have control over the system. Usually it is a system administrator. He is responsible for configuring the system, for giving the access to those who assist with site administration, for ensuring that the data is protected from unauthorised access, backing up restorative copies of the data, etc.
How does your proposed new OS achieve this without an administrator, or even with multiple "authenticated" administrators? Whatever safeguards are implemented by him or someone he has authorised to assist him can just as easily be circumvented by him. If you don't have trust in the administration then you really shouldn't ever be using such a site.
Your suggestion that I have quoted above can be achieved today by disconnecting from the internet and never switching your computer on. Otherwise you might as well be asking for an OS that requires no power source, operates in any environment without maintenance, and which works by manipulating a mixture of stardust and Unobtainium to calculate instant results.
Now, I will assume that you have something better in mind. Please explain in terms which we can all understand what your concept is for the new OS. Most of us are far more practical about such things and, I for one, cannot imagine how you conceive that such a system would work. If you do not have such a concept then the entire premise of your original comment contributes nothing to an intelligent discussion.
Your flippant remarks such as "OK?" and "WTF?" suggest that you are blowing gas out of your ass. However, I am prepared to join in an intelligent discussion if you can provide your half of it. Otherwise the community will probably moderate you appropriately.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @10:08AM (11 children)
Just to chime in here, I think it should be possible to set up a system like that using blockchain and signing. An admin might be able to delete or alter stuff, but it would leave a massive hole in the data and be really obvious because it would break the chain.
I don't believe that sort of effort and overhead is warranted for a discussion site like this, I think most of us are happy with how things are run.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @11:18AM
It is certainly possible, but it is a lot of effort to prevent an admin managing his site(s) for fear that he might be doing something that he shouldn't. Unwanted changes could be detected - but why would any admin want to do that? In any event all of our code is released for the whole world to see. If the idea is to prevent unauthorised access then it is more of a security matter - nobody should be able to access running code or personal data which they should not be accessing.
The database is constantly changing. Every comment, journal, moderation, even page accesses are recorded including UserID, time, the event itself, .... etc. So a blockchain would be of no use there. The daily backups are encrypted and stored on separate servers, both locally and remotely. No blockchain could prevent the deletion of a backup or even just pulling the plug on a server.
The original AC suggested a new OS but seemingly is now reluctant to explain exactly how or why the proposed changes are necessary. While he might be directing his comments at this site in particular, he is suggesting that a new OS would be his ideal. Why? A new OS would not make supporting the perl code any easier. If anyone wants to rewrite it then they are more than welcome to give it a try. kolie has extended the APIs so that we do not need to change the perl code to achieve many new functions - just knowing where to hook into the API is making many enhancements much easier than they once were. Additionally, many have decried the use of Docker containers but they are much more reliable than the previous configuration and the problems tend to be where the original Rehash code was hacked but insufficiently tested before being widely used.
So I don't think that he is directing his comments to this site. But if not, then which sites does he believe his new OS would be better suited than existing ones?
For repos such as those for different languages (Python etc) then a block chain would certainly identify that a 'change' had taken place, but I am not sure that it would accurately identify exactly where and, more importantly, what risks the new code poses to its users. Some have gone to great lengths to obfuscate the real purpose of their code changes and if a block chain could solve all the problems I wonder why nobody has yet introduced such a system for their repos. Perhaps they have, I do not pay much interest to blockchains etc so this is an area about which I know relatively little.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @01:33PM (9 children)
Great comment!
"I think most of us are happy with how things are run."
That is the rub. What if there are alterations you do not know about? A techie discussion site is low stakes and truly egregious violations would be noticed eventually, so who really cares? Do we need or even want a high level of trust in public forums?
It is a theoretical problem that someone is taking way too personally. Your solution is interesting but would definitely take some effort.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @03:44PM (8 children)
Well that comes back to the trust issue. I do not use any other social media because I have seen how they change the rules at will and bury any information about the changes in very small print, if at all.
They will quite happily share my information (which is illegal in the EU without my express permission) because it is seen as having some monetary value.
If you mean what happens if the code that we are running is changed maliciously, then the blockchain idea might be useful as a flag, but then you would have to diff everything with a known good release and try to find what the changes are. But that makes the role of the administrator more important, not less. If someone has managed to get into your own code base and make changes to it then there is a permissions issue that is wrong. But using our own case as an example - they would have to know also how to build the entire site into containers, how to access the database itself, how to access the various servers that we use etc.
I agree.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @06:32PM (7 children)
Blockchain would make it simple to run a verification on the database. Every byte of content added creates a signature, so uf someone changes a few bytes then the signature changes. Your current situation would require a complete diff against a backup.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @08:18PM (6 children)
The database is continually changing. There are internal tasks running all the time which leave results in the database. Records are created in the database when a users is accessing pages, making comments. creating journals, moderating, searching, etc. They all create new data that is saved in the database, some temporarily and some permanently.
At which point should the blockchain be updated? And why compare it with previous backup? What are you expecting it to tell you?
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @11:17PM (5 children)
Your questions would be an important part of the project management and development pipeline. Give me a call if you would like to hire a consultant.
The last question is the most important. It would tell an auditor when unwarranted modifications have been made. I thought that was clear from the beginning, but this thread has involved a lot off tangential and off topic nonsense due to, umm, something.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday February 27, @12:15AM (4 children)
A blockchain of the database would tell us no such thing. You would need a blockchain of the source code to identify changes to the source code.
What exactly are you trying to prove again?
This, I assume, is AC's little joke? What is your AC phone number, or your contact address? How exactly does one hire Mr Anonymous Coward?
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, @01:33AM (3 children)
Feel free to discuss with people you may actually listen to.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 25, @08:14PM (24 children)
Or, to make it easier, the same implied questions that I asked here [soylentnews.org]:, but in reply I got a smartass "OK?". I pointed out that we already have what you are wishing for.
If you have a point that is relevant to this POLL then please give it - but so far you have just described almost every OS that is currently in use.
If you believe that my flagging is unwarranted, please feel free to raise a formal complaint. I shan't hold my breath...
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @01:41PM (23 children)
" I shan't hold my breath..."
Damn, my secret plan to have you close your own discussion foiled again! Get a life bruh, harrassing people for adding relevant discussion to your Holy Poll is time better spent doing.. anything else?
If you spent half as much effort policing bigotry we wouldn't have to waste time emailing the site to get basic rules enforced. The community decided bigotry isn't cool, before you try making this a "me" problem.
Censor this one too? Only you get to flame others? Have you tried ignoring comments that break no rules yet bother you for some reason?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @03:56PM (22 children)
Can you point me to where the community was invited to discuss this topic? How was the voting counted and by whom? Was it all the community or just a handful of people? The community can moderate bigotry and often do. I have done so myself. I think that there is no change required to the way that this site works. Feel free to use an account and moderate bigotry too.
Attacking the bigot personally is, however, forbidden in the rules as are any forms of personal attack.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @05:44PM (16 children)
Ncommander made the announcement. TheMightBuzzard left immediately. Should be easier to find this policy change than to flag this comment.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @06:22PM (1 child)
Someone from Tennessee rage quit over banning racism? Say it ain't so!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @06:33PM (13 children)
So the community were not involved but merely told what the outcome would be? Perhaps that is the final straw that broke the camel's back for TMB. He did not like the voice from 'God' approach.
However you said....:
... which is now, by your own admission, not true. However it is also completely irrelevant. It was never promulgated in any rules. It was NCommander using his power as one of 2 shareholders to dictate something. I am not arguing that it was a bad decision, far from it, just that it was not made by community decision. It simply meant that they could moderate bigotry.
The site is far more democratic now. The rules that we currently work with were put before the community, discussed and accepted by a community vote which was verified by the Board, and I was asked to publish them in the Wiki. Nobody suggested that bigotry should have its own rule written, particularly as one had never existed before+.
My role is not to police comments to suit you or any other individual. It is to serve the community. The community itself is free to moderate bigotry as it sees fit. I am not here to moderate on behalf of individual community members, and particularly not for ACs who have chosen not to have moderation points. Community members have their own moderation points which they can use as they deem fit.
I agree that the bigotry should be moderated as severely as community members wish. They may do so whenever it is necessary. You should direct your complaint to them, but why should they listen to you?
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, @11:20PM (9 children)
You replied to a different AC. Since you are being rude I will decline responding to your comment. I will ask one more question. Why should someone listen to you? I have specific reasons why I do not trust your statements, your rude approach being one of them.
Really I think you should ignore posts you think are mine. Engaging seems to get you worked up and rather impolite.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday February 27, @12:25AM (6 children)
I replied to AC. The comment was entirely appropriate. If you would rather be someone different we usually use an account.
Oh, they shouldn't necessarily do so. But they should be following the site rules which you have agreed to by participating in this site.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, @12:37AM (5 children)
I did not say your comment was inappropriate, it was just rude. You should care about replying incorrectly to someone. Since you are so big on the rules I expect apologies for your personal attacks here. The least you can do is acknowledge your own rule breaking, and an apology is just being a decent person.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday February 27, @01:00AM (4 children)
May I offer my apology in the form of a quote from Monty Python:
The rules do not quote anything about being rude, although I do dispute your claim. The rules do specify 'personal attacks'. Where I have I personally attacked you?
Funny how it is only ACs who cannot grasp this simple requirement.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, @01:40AM (3 children)
In the past many times. Here the closest was calling me a smartass and insulting my intelligence when you failed to understand the original point. You do not use personal attacks often, but failing to even admit your own faults is not great for someone pretending they follow the rules perfectly while lecturing others. Narcissists tend to never admit fault and require arduous levels of proof for their problems. Hope you are not one of those types.
You have now steered far off topic so this discussion is now closed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, @02:31AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday February 27, @12:36AM (1 child)
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, @12:40AM
Ok? Trying to prove something? Still was not me, whether those IDs are for my comments I will not bother checking.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday February 26, @08:11PM (3 children)
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]