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Did you hear it was just a ban on Chinese humanoid robots? It's not:
When the Trump administration announced yesterday that it was banning "advanced robotic devices" from entering the United States, the headlines were all about humanoids. But spying doesn't require legs — and neither does the FCC's robot ban.
The robot ban will sweep up robot vacuum cleaners too, FCC media relations director Katie Gorscak confirms to The Verge.
It's not coming for your existing Roomba, and companies can keep importing and selling already approved ones. But the government claims that future foreign robots pose a national security risk, and even robovac companies are suddenly being asked to commit to US manufacturing.
While the government did include "humanoid robots" and "quadrupeds" among the bots it wants to ban, the ban is far broader than that. It covers almost any new software-controlled robot that travels over the ground, weighs more than 4.4 pounds (including any dock), can perceive its environment, and has wireless connectivity.
By that definition, the FCC is banning future robot lawnmowers, sidewalk delivery robots, and the robots that crate around packages at your local Amazon warehouse, too.
It was already clear from the government's ban announcement that it was thinking about robot vacuums. In the National Security Determination that the FCC is using to justify the ban, the government explicitly calls out my reporting on the incredibly poor security that let one man access 7,000 DJI robovacs around the world.
But like the consumer router ban, the FCC isn't actually targeting companies with poor security. It's targeting basically every robovac company, regardless of their security practices — because basically every robovac is manufactured outside the US.
[...] But again, the government isn't asking these companies any questions about security — not one — to get the waiver that lets them through. The FCC only wants to know where they're designed and made and assembled and tested and influenced, and get a specific commitment to start manufacturing them in the US instead.
Even then, it appears the FCC will simply preference US companies without any new commitments to security or US manufacturing, like it did when it almost immediately let Netgear off the hook — even though Netgear's routers were among those targeted in the Volt Typhoon incident that helped justify the router ban to begin with. Four unnamed sources told Reuters that "the FCC is expected to exempt many non-Chinese suppliers from the restrictions."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by epitaxial on Monday August 03, @10:29PM (4 children)
Is this not the "party of small limited government" and "the government should not pick winners and losers in regards to commerce"?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 04, @12:27AM
They have been neither for at least 50 years.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Tuesday August 04, @01:15AM
Wouldn't it be nice to live in a country that isn't run by a kakistocracy?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday August 04, @02:51AM
Hum a few bars of "Love, For Sale..."
This is the US government, putting access to the U.S. commercial markets for sale - just like in those Great old days of the 1800s and earlier when they did much the same...
🌻🌻🌻🌻✌️ [google.com]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by FunkyLich on Tuesday August 04, @06:29AM
Of course not. That party is the next door along the corridor. This one is the celebration of harvesting the crops of seeding ignorance and the success of dumbing down the education system. The results are particularly spectacular and visible in the last 2-3 decades even though it has been going on for almost twice as long as that.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ikanreed on Monday August 03, @10:29PM (2 children)
I just imported a Chinese designed robot vacuum a few months ago, and it absolutely destroys both American branded vacuums I've tried.
If every decision made for "national security" in my lifetime were completely reversed there would be next to no negative consequences at all, and many aspects of my life(flying on a plane, purchasing a car, many others) would be much easier.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by epitaxial on Tuesday August 04, @12:51AM
It's under the guise of national security but the real reason is protectionism for mega donors.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday August 04, @04:33PM
Roomba, I'm guessing? There aren't many to chose from. They went bankrupt awhile ago and they basically gave up on R+D and later gave up completely when the government decided we're not enforcing IP laws if they stand in the way of Chinese profits.
Much like you don't have to follow FCC regs or UL/TUV certifications if you're importing from China, you also don't have to enforce any IP law. So the Chinese copied Roomba, undercut because they didn't have to pay for any R+D, ship something a little nicer, take over.
My experience with robot vacuum cleaners is they're a good way to turn a 15 minute chore into 30 minutes of Fing around with the robot, as it inevitably gets stuck, clogged, battery dies, etc. A pleasant change of pace but not really worth it in the long run. It's a trade of a short predictable reliable chore, for a longer more complex and difficult mystery problem. Very strong rube goldberg machine vibes. Kind of reminds me of using a LLM/AI to "work" but it ends up being more work than doing it myself LOL.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday August 03, @10:52PM (1 child)
Automatic Dog-Poop Recognition? (ADPR - enabled )?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 04, @05:07AM
Yes, the robot stops every time Trump opens his mouth.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 03, @11:16PM
These things map your house and probably have a camera. If it's cloud connected I wouldn't want it rolling around. Don't care whether the US or china made it.
You would think in a place like this, more would DIY their own robo sucker.
(Score: 2) by cereal_burpist on Tuesday August 04, @03:49AM
Thanks for submitting this, Mom. What's for dinner?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Tuesday August 04, @03:06PM
Much like how the "S" in "IOT" stands for security, the "S" in "ROBOT" stands for security. There isn't any.
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Tuesday August 04, @05:20PM (1 child)
I have a first gen roomba one with old dead nicads. Was an interesting gadget.
There's like three generations.
The dumb random algorithm with no saved state. This was my old roomba. Drive until you should stop, then select a random direction, repeat until timer runs out at which point the room may be cleaner.
Problems: It randomly smacks into stuff making dishes rattle and stuff on shelves rattle. Ironically probably less violent than a human manual vacuum cleaner but they made a marketing mistake of making the fan noise quieter so instead of hearing a shrill jet engine for a couple minutes you hear a computer fan for an hour while a drunken animal crashes into everything and its distracting and disturbing.
Its like adding a small mammal pet to the family without ANY of the fun. It'll try to gnaw up cables on the floor even if along the wall, it'll tear up blankets or anything delicate left on the floor (socks? a coat? full length window drapes? an umbrella leaning up against a door jam?) There are some interior decor choices that are simply unacceptable with a robot vaccum and explaining we have to get rid of the couch and buy a different design because of the vacuum cleaner is a hard sell.
Its not real vacuuming. It wanders thru walkways chaotically. When I vacuum the kitchen I need to move stuff like chairs etc to vacuum under them. This is most of the time and effort and a robot helps with none of this. There's dirt over by the winter boots by the side door? At best it'll skip cleaning so I'll have to do it by hand, at worst it'll try to digest the laces of the boots destroying them. Most of the time I spend "vacuuming" is really picking up kids gloves and mittens from over by the coats, move the chairs out of the way, pre and post work, none of which is helped by the robot.
It is unpredictable unlike doing it by hand. By hand I can vacuum in "10 minutes EVERY time" or at least I can stop at eleven minutes if I want. With the robot sometimes it'll find mud from outside by the door and smoothly spread it all over the carpet and now my "2 minute" set it and forget it robot cleaning is more like two hours of drag out the carpet cleaner machine hope we have carpet shampoo bottle under the kitchen sink, hand scrub the mud our of the carpet, F this robot. Also funny when it pulls something off a table by a cord and smashes it or shreds it, or tries to eat something left on the floor and destroys it and jams itself, its just such a PITA.
It goes when it should stop and stops when it should go. In a lab given contrived simple problems it'll detect accurately. IRL its rando.
Its honestly dangerous. It would stop sometimes when it damn well pleased. If you live alone the risk is lower, but if you live with at least one other person, one person starts it, it randomly stops somewhere (maybe in the dark) someone else doesn't even know it was started and trips on it.
Its too quiet. You get a free pass if someone else is vacuuming while you're on a call for two audible minutes. You do not get a free pass if the damn thing is whirring away for an hour in the next room and its too loud but also quiet enough to be frustrating that its not quieter.
The next generation was having some dead reckoning IMU and some contactless sensing. It'll still smash chairs and shred cables but at least everything isn't a full speed impact.
Next generation above was wireless camera video recording and "processing" in the cloud.
Somewhere along the way instead of pick it up, unplug the charger, put it down, press go, they added an overcomplicated insecure app so you have to deal with that PITA. Again, for single people its not so bad, but if my wife starts it can I even shut it off using my phone? What if my phone's sitting on the charger far away? Now we have an insecure app on an insecure phone using insecure authentication as a replacement for... pressing the start button. Such a PITA.
One thing I will note about the uploading wireless video footage of your house is they did the marketing thing of creating a long list of everything the customer would want, promise if they allow uploads then all their dreams will be fulfilled, then accomplish none of those dreams the robot cleaners are still shite its just now they do creepy upload stuff in addition to still being shite at their job.
The next generation will go to an older firmware algo, no wifi, no phone apps, no spy cams. None of that improved the user experience anyway. Banning sidewalk delivery vehicles is a bonus not a bug. I'm not worried about inconveniencing Amazon's inhumane working conditions. Amazon quality of service has been in a death spiral recently so whatever they're doing is probably wrong, so if they're not allowed to be unsupervised anymore when the want to do dumb stuff, thats ironically good for Amazon and the customers...
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday August 05, @07:15AM
It's a jamb [wiktionary.org]; unless you make sugar-based preserves from doors?
Q: When is a door not a door?
A: When it's ajar [wiktionary.org].
Apart from that, your experiences with a robot vacuum cleaner are informative.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Wednesday August 05, @12:48AM (1 child)
Seriously, that line of thinking signals that the author is a living in a fantasy world. Companies don't care about security, they routinely underinvest to do the bare minimum, a lot don't even hit that bare minimum bar. This is not unique to the US, it is a universal thing in the global capitalist market. Asking them about security does diddly squat apart from getting some pre-canned marketing spiel.
Some are even happy to pay the punitive damage after the shit hits the fan because they've worked out it is cheaper to do so that to actually maintain an investment in security. Its not specific to robots/robovacs.
That said, not an American, so no particular comments about the actual initiative, but it is definitely interesting to see how this unfolds. As a very entertained observer from the sidelines, this seems to align with the thematic of MAGA, so if anything the dude is quite consistent!
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Wednesday August 05, @07:21AM
Trump seems to have adopted the philosophy of Juche [wiktionary.org], the core component of Kimilsungism–Kimjongilism, the state ideology of North Korea.
From the Wikipedia article on Juche [wikipedia.org]: