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from the the-impossible-takes-a-little-longer dept.
lhsi writes:
"The Atlantic looked at a recent update from the developers of the game Desktop Dungeons to discuss problems with gender bias in gaming, asking 'can a work be racist or sexist if its creator doesn't mean for it to be?'
The developers of the game had recently been adding female character art to their game with the intention that they would be "adventurers first and runway models second." While actively trying to avoid doing everything the 'simple' way, they came into some problems due to subconscious shorthands creeping in.
"This adjustment turned out to be startlingly non-trivial - you'd think that a bunch of supposedly conscious, mindful individuals would instantly be able to nail a 'good female look' (bonus points for having a woman on our crew, right?), but huge swathes of our artistic language tended to be informed by sexist and one-dimensional portrayals. We regularly surprised ourselves with how much we took for granted.'"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Angry Jesus on Saturday March 15 2014, @07:37PM
I don't think that realism is the right approach. Stereotypically the male characters are exaggerated for physical strength and the female characters are exaggerate for sexuality. Neither are realistic, but strength is a frequently a useful attribute for a character in a game, while sexuality is not.
I say tone down the sexualization and bring the physicality to proportionally the same level as the male characters. I'm not saying make the female characters look like they take so many steroids that they have mustaches and adam's apples, but something closer to Venus Williams rather than Barbie.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 15 2014, @07:55PM
Yeah I agree, we need better games!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by zocalo on Saturday March 15 2014, @08:06PM
I also wonder also how much of this subconciously ties into the uncanny valley. Perhaps we currently need the maquette to be slightly out of kilter in order to keep us firmly pegged on the "fake" side of the valley. Once we have the capability to do truly realistic characters in real-time on the desktop or console, then that might mark the point where it becomes necessary to start using more realistic proportions.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 1) by Angry Jesus on Saturday March 15 2014, @09:08PM
You are mistaken. The problem is sexism, not stereotyping in general. Video games are inherently over-simplifications, the very word avatar is practically a synonym for stereotype.
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Saturday March 15 2014, @09:45PM
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Angry Jesus on Saturday March 15 2014, @10:25PM
So your position is that it is impossible to not be sexist. Not useful.
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Saturday March 15 2014, @10:50PM
My position is that if someone has problems with sexism, whether conciously or unconciously as implied by the article, then starting with a realistic baseline drawn from the real world might be a good means to avoid the issue. For instance, if they are trying to create a maquette for a given role (muscular male, athletic female, or whatever), then maybe they could use the dimensions of actual human who *is* a muscular male, athletic female, or whatever as their base. That doesn't prevent any subsequent tweaking, of course, but it does at least ensure they would have a plausible set of proportions to begin with.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 0) by Angry Jesus on Saturday March 15 2014, @11:16PM
I don't see why starting from realistic proportions and then amping them up is any less likely to reduce the subconscious expression of sexism than any other method. If the problem is the subconscious affecting the end result, then as long at there is a subconscious involved in making decisions, its going to come out in the end result.
(Score: 1) by mister_playboy on Sunday March 16 2014, @01:39AM
strength is a frequently a useful attribute for a character in a game, while sexuality is not
This quip made me think of Jessica [gamesretrospect.com] from DQVIII and her "Sex Appeal" skill tree.
She blows kisses, bashes enemies with her butt, gives puff-puffs, and causing foes to waste their turn ogling her. Maybe not the most powerful choice of skills, but certainly the most fun.
And how would Dragon Quest Sorceress [wikia.com] animate the dead without her heaving bosom? :3
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 16 2014, @10:07PM
I'm sure I've 'objectified' venus williams a time or two before bed. I'll grant that she is completely devoid of generic sorts of beauty though.
My fear is that the most vocal segment of the female/feminist population that hates this stuff just won't be happy with characters that aren't ugly. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a variety of characters that are nice to look at as well as a handful that shouldn't be attractive by the nature of their character would suffice.
That's pretty much how it is for male characters, they look generally attractive but you have your steve buchemis too.