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posted by cmn32480 on Monday April 06 2015, @10:47AM   Printer-friendly
from the hypocrisy-knows-no-bounds dept.

David Knowles reports at Bloomberg that former Hewlett-Packard CEO and potential 2016 presidential candidate Carly Fiorina called out Apple CEO Tim Cook as a hypocrite for criticizing Indiana and Arkansas over their Religious Freedom Restoration Acts while at the same time doing business in countries where gay rights are non-existent. “When Tim Cook is upset about all the places that he does business because of the way they treat gays and women, he needs to withdraw from 90% of the markets that he’s in, including China and Saudi Arabia,” Fiorina said. “But I don’t hear him being upset about that.”

In similar criticism of Hillary Clinton on the Fox News program Hannity, Fiorina argued that Clinton's advocacy on behalf of women was tarnished by donations made to the Clinton Foundation from foreign governments where women's rights are not on par with those in America. ""I must say as a woman, I find it offensive that Hillary Clinton travels the Silicon Valley, a place where I worked for a long time, and lectures Silicon Valley companies on women's rights in technology, and yet sees nothing wrong with taking money from the Algerian government, which really denies women the most basic human rights. This is called, Sean, hypocrisy." While Hillary Clinton hasn't directly addressed Fiorina's criticisms, her husband has. “You’ve got to decide, when you do this work, whether it will do more good than harm if someone helps you from another country,” former president Bill Clinton said in March. “And I believe we have done a lot more good than harm. And I believe this is a good thing.”

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  • (Score: 2) by ancientt on Tuesday April 07 2015, @12:45AM

    by ancientt (40) <> on Tuesday April 07 2015, @12:45AM (#167271) Homepage Journal

    It's been said better [] than I can say it, and frankly I'm disgusted to see that this debate rages on with neither side willing to even consider the valid points from the other.

    Look, if somebody comes in and wants to do business in the store the same way it's provided to other customers, the business must do that.

    Side 1 valid point: deciding that you don't want to do business with someone based on characteristics of a group they belong to is legitimately something a society should condemn and sometimes prevent.
    Side 2 valid counter: deciding you don't want to be responsible for a message someone requests, no matter how valid or invalid that message may be, is protection of your personal right to free speech.
    Side 1 invalid counter: race and sexual preference are the same thing.
    Side 2 invalid counter: people should have the right to refuse service to anyone without consideration of the reasons.

    Are you sure about that? Don't they still have that saying, "Management reserves the right to refuse service to any customer"?

    Those signs are still around but they don't negate the laws against some refusals of service. Management may say they reserve that right, but in practice they cannot (legally) refuse service based on race.

    There is room for compromise here. It is reasonable to say that a business should not be allowed to refuse service based on what they think someone's sexual preferences are, but at the same time, it should be reasonable for a business to refuse to create a message endorsing any activity, regardless of what that activity is.
    Example of valid (if stupid) refusal: A baker should be able to refuse to put mixed race figurines on a wedding cake.
    Example of an invalid refusal: A baker cannot refuse service to a couple because they are of different races.

    Why is it about bakers? Most readers this far and late in a thread probably already know, but I've discovered some people don't. The fact is that in Colorado a judge has ordered bakers to create a message they specifically felt was contrary to their religious beliefs. There have been several of these cases and Colorado and California have had enough of them that other states are trying to prevent their citizens from being forced by law to produce messages they strongly disagree with. That's the silly part, there was no refusal to provide the usual service to someone, regardless of their sexual preferences; it was a refusal to produce a specific type of message. Most states think that the right to refuse to refuse to create a specific message is reasonable, while most states also don't think the right to refuse service based on the characteristics of the customers is reasonable.

    I think it is immoral and should be illegal to force anyone to produce art or a message they believe is immoral, regardless of their reasons. I think dogs are great, but I don't believe I should have the right to force anyone to create a sign saying dogs are great if they don't want to, regardless of their motivation. But nobody is up in arms saying people should be forced to create those signs, so I'll go to the radical extreme of the same idea. I don't believe people in the KKK should be forced by law to create banners saying all races are equal. I think the beliefs of the KKK are stupid and I adamantly believe there are many, many, many things they should be legally prohibited from doing, but I don't they should be legally prohibited from being allowed to refuse to create messages in disagreement with their beliefs.

    As a citizen of the United States of America, I cherish my right to say what I believe and my right to not say something I don't believe. That freedom is so important that I want to see even the most disgusting and disturbing beliefs of people I disagree with protected the same way. This isn't about tolerance, this about freedom and specifically my freedom. I'm dismayed that so many people are so vested in their cause and beliefs that they want to see such a basic freedom taken from everyone else.

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  • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday April 07 2015, @06:19PM

    by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday April 07 2015, @06:19PM (#167518)

    Two points.

    1) The proprietor is better off just not giving a reason. "Are you refusing to service me because I'm black, or a convicted felon?" (for example)

    B) In most circumstances it's kind of a moot point anyway because the business in question is just turning away paying customers. So if people just weren't assholes a lot of the problem wouldn't exist.

    I can see both sides of the argument somewhat. On the one hand, forcing a store owner to sell to someone is ridiculous. On the other hand, people will often be assholes unless specifically barred from doing so by law.

    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"