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posted by LaminatorX on Monday April 13 2015, @11:30AM   Printer-friendly
from the Livejournal-still-works dept.

From the The Guardian.

Introducing the Sad Puppies...

"The shortlists for the long-running American genre awards, won in the past by names from Kurt Vonnegut to Ursula K Le Guin and voted for by fans, were announced this weekend to uproar in the science fiction community, after it emerged that the line-up corresponded closely with the slates of titles backed by certain conservative writers. The self-styled "Sad Puppies" campaigners had set out to combat what orchestrator and writer Brad Torgersen had criticised as the Hugos' tendency to reward "literary" and "ideological" works.

Today's Hugos, Torgersen has blogged, "have lost cachet, because at the same time SF/F has exploded popularly – with larger-than-life, exciting, entertaining franchises and products – the voting body of 'fandom' have tended to go in the opposite direction: niche, academic, overtly to the Left in ideology and flavor, and ultimately lacking what might best be called visceral, gut-level, swashbuckling fun".

Twenty years ago, he writes, "if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds". Nowadays, he claims, the same jacket is likely to be a story "merely about racial prejudice and exploitation, with interplanetary or interstellar trappings".

And here we have the Rabid Puppies definitely not mentioning GamerGate:

Another group of allied rightwing campaigners, dubbing themselves the Rabid Puppies and led by Vox Day, real name Theodore Beale, have also added their voices to the block-voting campaign against what Day called "the left-wing control freaks who have subjected science fiction to ideological control for two decades and are now attempting to do the same thing in the game industry".

And finally a bit of Martin:

"Call it block voting. Call it ballot stuffing. Call it gaming the system. There's truth to all of those characterisations. You can't call it cheating, though. It was all within the rules. But many things can be legal, and still bad ... and this is one of those, from where I sit. I think the Sad Puppies have broken the Hugo awards, and I am not sure they can ever be repaired," he wrote.

"If the Sad Puppies wanted to start their own award ... for Best Conservative SF, or Best Space Opera, or Best Military SF, or Best Old-Fashioned SF the Way It Used to Be ... whatever it is they are actually looking for ... hey, I don't think anyone would have any objections to that. I certainly wouldn't. More power to them," he added. "But that's not what they are doing here, it seems to me. Instead they seem to want to take the Hugos and turn them into their own awards."

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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday April 15 2015, @08:48AM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {}> on Wednesday April 15 2015, @08:48AM (#170857) Journal

    I actually learned about it from my gay son, who was told he "wasn't really gay" and threatened as well for simply saying "Having the press be objective is a good thing, no matter the profession". It was then I first tried actually rationally talking to the SJWs....after all I'm a socialist, in fact come from a long line of socialists going back to my great grandfather who was a card carrying socialist during the depression, so if these people are "left wing" then surely we can have a rational discussion of their beliefs since we MUST have some common ground to work from....right?

    OH FUCK NO, these people are to the left what the Aryan Nation is to the right, they are soooo fucking far off the deep end that honestly? I do not think anybody should even use the term "left wing" because they are so fucking racist, sexist, and outright hate filled I seriously can't find a single thing they have in common with the classical term of leftist. Look up "progressive stack" to see how your voice means NOTHING unless you are one of the "historically oppressed classes" and even then your voice counts ONLY if you agree with them, otherwise you are a "token" or a "sockpuppet" of a CIS white male. The amount of hatred they have spewed at gays, the disabled such as telling one man who couldn't walk he was a "worthless fat fuck" and hoped he die of AIDS simply for saying he disagreed with their attacking minorities and called for civil discussion. As I said they threatened my son and called him a puppet for daring to say what he said, attacked me as a "CIS racist misogynist" for saying we should all be equal and that calling every man who doesn't support radical feminism a "rape apologist" was simply throwing names instead of debating the subject, hell I could go on all day with example after example from their very own mouths where you are either with them 100% on every issue or you are a fucking monster.

    And the way they treat white men is just disgusting, it goes against everything Dr King fought for and we struggled for in the 60s until today. If you are a white male you are worthless, it is your function to have NO pride in yourself, your sole function is to grovel and beg forgiveness of every single thing a white man has ever done even if it had nothing to do with you. the fact my relatives were in Ireland during slavery and were treated no better than blacks when they got here (I'm sure you've seen the "no niggers, no Chinks, No Irish" signs from back then) doesn't matter, I'm white so therefor I somehow "earned privilege" simply from being born white. As I said in another post racism is racism and the way they argued that hate crime laws were wrong NOT because charging people for what may have been in their heart was wrong but instead because a black man that set a 14 year old boy on fire while yelling "Kill a whitey for Treyvon!" was threatened with charged with a hate crime while "not taking into account historical racism" its okay to be racist and commit an obvious hate crime as long as the target is white?

    This is why, while I have ZERO beliefs in ANYTHING their party stands for? I can at least give respect to the right wing for valuing free speech and refusing to censor those like me that don't believe as they do. Go to any of the sites the SJWs frequent and see how quickly even the most rational speech that doesn't follow their cult like groupthink gets banned. They scream about being attacked but when somebody has a different opinion, or points out when key figures they practically worship was caught attacking themselves because they forgot to log out before they started trolling for sympathy? You will see what they are REALLY about as here comes the threats, the insults, the attacks. Notice how that one refused to believe I could be ANYTHING other than an ultra right winger simply because i did not subscribe to radical Marxism and what they call "positive racism", you see you can't have a difference of opinion because they are always right about everything therefor the ONLY answer is you are "the other" which is fair game.

    Again please don't take my word for it, speak to them yourselves, its not hard to find where the SJWs hang out. You'll find out they aren't activists, and certainly not the left wing, if anything they display a cult like behavior that reminds me of groups...well like the Aryan Nation, The Birthers, and other groups that are so radical nobody would seriously consider to be in the same tent as those that are left OR right.

    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
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  • (Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Wednesday April 15 2015, @12:07PM

    by Vanderhoth (61) on Wednesday April 15 2015, @12:07PM (#170916)

    Just point people to GamerGhazi and ask them to go talk to them. Ghazi has been the best thing to push anyone on to the pro-GamerGate side. []

    Five minutes with those wackos is everything you just described. They will right out mock, shame and ban anyone for any dissenting opinions. What's ridiculous is it's almost always cis-white-males claiming they're speaking for all women and minorities, while attacking women and minorities. Here's just one of many examples I can provide, if you scroll up in the conversation he even uses the "internalized misogyny" argument on someone after she told him she was a women. []

    "Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
    • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday April 15 2015, @06:16PM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {}> on Wednesday April 15 2015, @06:16PM (#171102) Journal

      They are....well I originally hated the term because too many tried to use it to label somebody by how they look, but if the shoe fits...beta males that have been so browbeaten by the radicals that all they can do is grovel and beg, its damned shameful really. I have literally seen one go on and on about how whites are worthless and should be wiped from the earth and blacks should be given control of the planet...and he was as white as a '64 Barbie doll. It was truly pathetic just how beaten down they are, they have ZERO pride in themselves, their history, nothing. No pride at all, just groveling and begging. Its disgusting.

      And for all their talk I have NEVER in all my years of the Internet met a group more racist, not even close. For all their talk about how great the other races are members of those races better not have a differing opinion, otherwise they are a "token" that is "cooning" or even be told they outright do not exist, as they could ONLY be a sockpuppet of a CIS white male, which is their bogey man. Which as you pointed out is ironic as hell as the majority there are CIS white males!

      I'll be sure to point them there because as I said they really don't need to take MY word for any of it, trying to have a rational dialog with an SJW is all it takes to see what a pit of vipers they are. Narcissist, racist, hate filled, sexist, and so programmed by dogma they make a Scientologist look like a free thinker. that is why that SJW can accuse me of being "an unperson" all he wants (bet my last buck its a beta CIS white male) but I have been to some of the most ardent right wing websites and even though we have exactly fuck and all in common, and my viewpoints are in direct opposition to everything they support....I've never been banned, never been silenced, hell I can't even remember a single one of them threatening me unless you call saying "I should get to try living under communism" as a threat ( because apparently the right don't know that socialism and communism are 2 different things) but nobody called for me to be silenced or outright murdered...sure as fuck did on the SJW side though, that and a LOT worse.

      ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 16 2015, @09:10AM

        by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday April 16 2015, @09:10AM (#171487) Journal

        I have literally seen one go on and on about how whites are worthless and should be wiped from the earth and blacks should be given control of the planet...and he was as white as a '64 Barbie doll.

        Sounds good to me, Hairfoot! Better than having to run Micro$oft! And I am whiter than all Barbie dolls. You do refer to Klaus Barbie, do you not? So, what militia do you belong to?

        • (Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Thursday April 16 2015, @10:46AM

          by Vanderhoth (61) on Thursday April 16 2015, @10:46AM (#171507)

          Wow, that was really uncalled for. Unfortunately over the last 8 months, I've actually seen people making the argument Hairyfeet was talking about. There are terrible people out there that say and do terrible things in the name of "Social Justice". I have no issue with giving people a leg up, I have a huge problem with cut off the legs of those who are doing better, whether it's because they're privileged or because they just worked hard or even maybe because they're women/minorities that just don't fall in line.


          There's a ton more in the #StopWebH8 tag, but I think the above kind of makes the point

          "Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
          • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 16 2015, @12:29PM

            by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {}> on Thursday April 16 2015, @12:29PM (#171548) Journal

            See what I mean? He is white and calling for the murder of his own race....THAT is how programmed and browbeaten he is, he literally can have ZERO pride in anything about himself because he is a beta white male. And notice how it does not matter that I am a card carrying socialist that believes in everything from gay rights to universal health care because I won't grovel and beg for forgiveness for things nobody in my family ever did (as I said we were in Ireland during slavery and when we got here we were poor share croppers that were discriminated against ourselves) I MUST be a right winger because only a right winger could ever be against them, special snowflakes that they are.

            And there have to be a couple of admins at this site that is SJWs because myself and several others have pointed out that several users have been targeted by modbombing...not a damned thing has been done. Hell I had one post that simply said "You can't judge how old a PC is by it coming with XP as it was sold nationally until 2009" that went from +5 to -1 to +5 more than 3 times in less than 12 hours! And looking at my messages just yesterday I had multiple posts doing the same thing, +5 to 0 to +5 over and over....this is not surprising as SJWs do not believe anybody but themselves have the right to free speech but you can be sure its gonna turn off a lot of people from contributing here as nobody likes a biased site.

            But of course this sadly is the SOP of the SJW, get in a position with a little bit of clout and wreck the joint, and if they can't do that use an army or sockpuppets to bury anybody who does not think like they do, no matter the race or sex. I have ZERO doubt if you look at those under modbomb attack you'll find its only a couple of IP addresses that are doing this to the same users over and over AND OVER, this is obviously stalking, but again not a thing will be done. Its sad as I had high hopes for this site but now find myself spending more and more time at pipedot.

            ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
            • (Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Thursday April 16 2015, @01:52PM

              by Vanderhoth (61) on Thursday April 16 2015, @01:52PM (#171587)

              if they can't do that use an army or sockpuppets

              An interesting tactic I've seen used in comment sections using Disqus, people will create sock accounts and go argue with people. After they've racked up hundreds of comments, they delete the account leaving a ton of comments all marked as "guest" which makes it look like there was a shit ton of people in the comments disagreeing with like 20 people. When in fact it was 1 - 2 people arguing with everyone else.

              My theory is they used named accounts because they suspect people will be on their side and/or as a signifier for others that they're an ally so they can "circle jerk" and "dog pile" certain commenters. If things go south, they delete the named account making it look like exponentially more people were on their side. This actually happened on the ABC Nightline video that linked Anita Sarkeesian's "harassment" with GamerGate

              This was a very insightful video [] that explains the mentality and how people could use conformity to trick people into thinking they're going against popular opinion, which either keeps them from speaking out or gets them to join in so they conform to the group.

              Just reading though the SN comments on this article you notice a ton of Anonymous comments, a lot use language and grammar signifiers that you could pretty confidently say they're coming from the same person. You might even be able to pick out the named account with a pretty high degree of certainty the AC comments are actually coming from if you read really carefully. People trying to make it sound like anyone not denouncing Sad Puppies are on board because of some "conspiracy" or they talk about "secret cabals", when in fact it's been known for years there are individual authors self promoting, submitted slates and campaigned for votes. There's nothing conspiratorial or secret about it, but a good way to discredit someone is to make them look like a conspiracy nut. Even if they have actual evidence and can point to specific people and recorded past behavior supporting it.

              If you can't attack the argument, attack the person making it.

              "Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
              • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 16 2015, @08:16PM

                by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {}> on Thursday April 16 2015, @08:16PM (#171715) Journal

                Don't forget the stalking, my son ended up getting rid of his FB account because he was constantly getting attacks from SJWs simply because he was a gay that refused to support their bullshit. I've had to spend entire weekends dealing with tech support at sites like Yahoo and Google because they would try to lock me out of my account by making repeatedly login attempts until it would throw a flag on their system.

                And like I said I had high hopes that this site would be a return to the old Slash, where we could actually talk about tech without all the political bullshit but myself and several others have been stalked and modbombed almost daily (some others are reporting their are under constant attack) and the response from the admins? they just mod the person back up, which does fuck and all about the stalking and sockpuppets. I mean its really not hard to spot, hell I could probably write a script in 5 minutes that would flag and highlight modbombers...when you have a single IP address downmodding the same user on multiple posts or multiple times? Its a modbomber. If a person gets modded to +5 and then suddenly drops to 0 the day after it leaves the front page where the majority won't see what is going on? Modbomb.

                If a site doesn't stop shit? You can be pretty sure that one or more admins support it, because any rational person knows that if you let shit like this goes on it just emboldens the stalkers and they WILL escalate. I saw this on other sites, such as OSNews where they said "Its a free speech issue"...until they ended up with a couple articles that were filled with over 200 posts by brand new accounts saying "choke on a cock you dyke bitch" targeting a lesbian poster that was being stalked. If you wanna see what this site will end up if they don't get a handle on it? Look at the forums of Jezebel or the Escapist, where its nothing but a handful of "yes I agree completely" asskissers that agree with everything the admins say or do while the userbase dies as nobody wants to contribute to an echo chamber.

                ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Thursday April 16 2015, @10:49AM

        by Vanderhoth (61) on Thursday April 16 2015, @10:49AM (#171509)

        Wish I could respond to more than one person at a time, because my response to aristarchus above was also a response agreeing with you, in spite of the fact I rarely agree with you.

        "Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Thursday April 16 2015, @01:17PM

          by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {}> on Thursday April 16 2015, @01:17PM (#171570) Journal

          That's okay Vanderhoth, I rarely agree with you either but unlike aristarchus (who I really wouldn't be surprised to find out he is one of my modbombing stalkers) support you 100% in your right to express your disagreement and differing opinion.

          As I told someone on Ars I have been stalked across multiple websites, been DOXXed and have been threatened, had one of them follow me around for over a year that would post over and over "die you fat fuck DIE!!" dozens of times any place I posted, even had to deal with multiple attempts to have my online accounts broken into but I will NEVER be silenced and will NEVER support silencing of those with differing opinions.

          Oh sure I may call them a dumbass, may post citations to back up my position or come up with a test to show their BS is BS like with the challenge, but my grandfather and great uncle suffered their entire lives from what happened to them in WWII so I will never support and will fight tooth and nail against anybody that tries to silence free speech, even if I don't agree with a single word they say. That is the difference between a socialist like myself and an SJW, we socialists welcome debate and will be happy to argue our positions for hours, someone who is programmed by dogma like the SJWs? Will insult and try to silence. They remind me of cults like Scientology or Stefan Molyneux with his "DeFOOing", one is simply not allowed to have any opinion but theirs or you are "other" and MUST be wiped out.

          ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.