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“Dan” seems at first to perfectly embody that popular object of scorn these days in San Francisco: the privileged tech worker. He’s a developer-turned-manager at a thriving startup, the type of guy you would expect to see dodging protesters at a Google bus stop or evicting low-income tenants in order to build his dream condo. But beyond that veneer of untouchable privilege, there is a soft underbelly. He’s a 40-year-old virgin, and his troubles with women are bad enough that he’s sought out a sex therapist for help.
This is in part a result of techies’ higher-than-average salaries, which allow them to pay for therapy, particularly when it comes to non-traditional counseling that isn’t covered by insurance. There’s something else at play here, though: In general, tech workers are more vulnerable to issues around love and intimacy, according to several local sex therapists I’ve interviewed. The reasons for this are wide-ranging, but in Dan’s particular case, it resulted from being tagged as a prodigy at a young age. He excelled in science and was encouraged to pursue it to the exclusion of all else.
The men, like Dan, who are coming to see her have been hindered by the very thing that allows them to excel in their field. “There is a very strong reinforcement [in tech] on using your brain,” says McGrath. “You brain is what’s of value.” But when it comes to sex, she says, “our brains are bullshit.”
Original Submission
(Score: 1) by Noble713 on Monday June 01 2015, @11:06PM
You helpfully list some career types which pair well with engineers. What are career types which don't? This would be useful information to help weed out people.
I'm going to take a stab and guess legal, law enforcement, and military are probably bad ones. Not a lot of "caring and humanity" in women from those career fields.
Agreed, the mentality of "Screen to disqualify" is so important and most guys are so thirsty they don't realize that not all cute women are worth dating. Unfortunately, classifying the different types of women is something I've consistently struggled with as I'm bad at "reading people". Vin diCarlo codified 8 different personality types in women, you can probably align them with particular careers: http://vindicarlopandorasboxreview.tumblr.com/post/29318806373/vin-dicarlo-pandoras-box-eight-different-types [tumblr.com]
And as an ex-military guy.....I'll agree on avoiding military women. Most of them are getting RUN THROUGH by a ridiculous number of the men that they serve with. And the ones that AREN'T tend to be.....odd.
Finally, does anyone have any opinions on mail-order brides? It seems like men like this are perfect candidates for that. A lot of male engineers and scientists tend to be quiet, introverted types, and that just doesn't seem to go very well with LOUD American women; a woman from south Asia is probably a better personality match.
I live in Asia, and done a *little* travel in central Europe. I don't recommend using "mail order bride" websites or going on organized dating tours. But I DO, wholeheartedly and overwhelmingly, suggest that men abandon American women and find mates elsewhere. This means planning multi-week trips to countries, learning the basics of the local language, and using online dating sites and smartphone apps to help you schedule at least a few dates with women who are interested in you.
Whether its SE Asia, Eastern Europe, or South America, there is an abundance of affectionate, supportive, amicable, feminine, and youthful women around the globe who want a kind, financially-secure man. A large subset of these women are willing and eager to date foreigners. And they don't mind dating older men either. American men who aren't well-traveled just don't realize how toxic Western women have become. They've priced themselves out of the global sexual marketplace (much like American labor in general)....and men should stop buying what they are selling.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Nuke on Monday June 01 2015, @11:58PM
Western women have become spoiled, the USA sounding similar to the UK. Basically, with women able to earn as much as men, they have no "need" to marry like they did years ago, and many withdraw from the dating scene after a little playing (or never enter it), often with a baby (whose father is back in the dating scene the very next day), and live the rest of their life without a man. Most women do not have the imperative sexual imperitive that most men do, and being a spinster no longer carries any stigma as it used to.
The women who do remain in the dating/partnership/marriage scene are therefore seriously outnumbered by the men. They can afford to be very fussy and make no attempt to conceal their contempt for any guy who they believe to have assessed in their first glance as not meeting their standards.
I am English married an English girl, but previously had (among others) South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends. These were definitely more positive about my having a good and steady (if technical) job and being a "gentleman" rather than a "bad-boy" or jock. With English girls I felt I needed to conceal or play down that I was a techie and had high qualifications, rather than being in marketing, admin or banking, or even in construction work.
Another option not mentioned here is to find a girl who is, frankly, a bit dim and submissive. I had one or two of those as GF's too, and it worked suprisingly well. Opposites can attract and balance. They tend to appreciate and even be proud of having a boyfriend who treats them as a lady and is clearly from a better social background - it seemed to be a novelty to them and even my old car (at the time) impressed them. They were always happy to let me make the decisions, and I guess they would have been quite tolerant of my foibles in married life.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:01PM
Another option not mentioned here is to find a girl who is, frankly, a bit dim and submissive.
I'm not so sure this is a good idea, at least for me personally. I ended up marrying someone who wasn't as smart or educated as me (but definitely not submissive, actually closer to the opposite) and it hasn't worked out well at all, so we're separated now. The differences in intelligence and educational background have been a big problem; she feels like I'm constantly "correcting" her, and I feel like I can't make any kind of suggestion at all without it being taken badly. And she's not even what I'd call "dim" by a long shot, just not up to my level. While a submissive girl probably wouldn't have the problem of becoming terrible self-conscious about her mistakes and wouldn't get offended when I suggest things or make decisions, I do feel I'd get pretty bored with someone like that after a while. I've always wanted an equal partner I could respect, not someone I have to take care of like a kid.
I am English married an English girl, but previously had (among others) South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends.
Were these women who had somehow already made their way to the UK to live?
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Tuesday June 02 2015, @04:26PM
Grishnakh replied :- "I'm not so sure this is a good idea, at least for me personally."
It does depend on your personality, and theirs. I don't want an intellectual sparring partner, I get enough of that at work (and maybe here!), and there are plenty of things I like to do alone like tinkering with cars, going for long bike rides. The Eurasian girl was not bright, but similarly liked to spend a lot of time with her three sisters (all four jaw-dropping pretty :-). OTOH she was homely, and immaculately clean and tidy, which I liked. Far from resenting me being brighter, she found confidence with me. She just accepted what I did and said, to a fault maybe.
I was thunderstruck when I recently happened to see the 1993 film ""Murder in the Heartland"; because the 14 yo Caril Fulgate, played by Fairuza Balk, was exactly like my GF in looks, intellect and mannerisms, although my girl was 19-21 and had an Indian accent. She was always being challenged in bars about her age.
"Were these women [South American, Eurasian and Malay girlfriends] who had somehow already made their way to the UK to live?"
Yes; Malay was a nurse, quite bright but submissive by culture, sweet, perhaps I should have stayed with her; the Brazillian girl had an EU passport as her mother was Italian, I was not sociable enough for her; and the Eurasian I described was from an Anglo-Indian police family who had returned from India when her father retired - I felt that her mother/grandmother were pushing her to me in the Indian tradition of arrangements, and she was OK with that because guys she'd previouly known gave her the creeps - they wanted to treat her like a Barbie doll, dress her in leather etc. OTOH I treated her with respect and she felt safe with me.
I met them all in dating clubs (before Internet dating, equivalent) - I never met girls any other way and would not want to.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday June 02 2015, @05:47AM
"American men who aren't well-traveled just don't realize how toxic Western women have become." Yes, I forgot to mention that. Many American women have such extreme expectations that there's no pleasing them. I didn't have to travel to see that either. Some start changing their attitudes when they reach their late 30s still single and childless, and realize they would rather not stay that way. And of course, some do not. Of those, some are happy to stay single. Others become bitter. An interesting example from history were 3 of the sisters of King Louis XVI of France. They didn't want just any royalty for a husband, they wanted the crown prince or king, and of a real power, not of some piddly country like Monaco. Commoners were right out! They turned down all offers, and eventually, the offers stopped coming. They never married or had any children, and gained a reputation of being bitter old hags. Hard to say how justified that reputation was, as anyone who doesn't meet social expectations is often slandered on all sorts of issues, related or not.
As to other parts of the world, they're making things worse for men. Every couple wants to have a boy, not a girl, and some actually murder baby girls for being the wrong gender. I hear China is especially bad that way. There have even been cases of female tourists being kidnapped and forced to marry a farmer.
As to the suggestions of getting out there and going where the women are, places like the dance floor, that's fine, but what about the other direction? Will some of the women go where the men are? Mostly. that's a big no, they won't because they don't have to. Men come crawling to women, not the other way around. As several others have pointed out, women are bombarded with offers. That in itself is most suggestive of the imbalance. When room and resources run short, it is the females who pull back. That is, I feel, where we're at. Much more so than men, women want to feel secure before having any children,
However, one exception is church. If you don't believe, and you're going to church just to meet women, they're going to be very unhappy when they learn you're a godless atheist or agnostic. I wonder how many men fake a lifetime of devotion to land and keep a wife. I refused to do that, so for me, church was out.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @02:16PM
However, one exception is church. If you don't believe, and you're going to church just to meet women, they're going to be very unhappy when they learn you're a godless atheist or agnostic. I wonder how many men fake a lifetime of devotion to land and keep a wife. I refused to do that, so for me, church was out.
Yep, I'm the same way. My current (separated) wife used to be more religious and go to "non-denominational Christian" churches before I met her, and complained a lot about it: they would constantly preach to young women how they had to "not be unequally yoked", meaning they needed to only date men who went to church. So, as she put it, at some smaller church there'd be 10 beautiful 20-something women, and 1 creepy-looking fat weirdo with a handlebar mustache who had horrible social manners, and the women would all be chasing him.
So, if you're willing to live a lie, and marry someone who talks about Jesus 24x7 and quotes Bible versus constantly, you can probably find an attractive woman in one of these churches.
There is a common stereotype of women "dragging" men to church on Sundays; I even heard a country song about that not long ago. If women are, in general, a lot more religious than men in our society, this would definitely cause problems with the non-religious men like us refusing to date them (and trust me, don't do it, it's not worth it: I went through some of that with my current almost-ex-wife (now separated) and it was miserable; she was less religious and rigid by the time I hooked up with her, but it was still way too much), and lots of people on both sides ending up perpetually single. I wonder if this is one reason there seem to be far more single men than women in our society? Are we not seeing most of the single women because they're all in church and only look there (or on places like "christiansingles.com")? Everywhere I look and read, the common theme is that single women are far outnumbered by men seeking them, and this just doesn't make any sense when you consider demographics: there's almost as many girl babies born as boys, and over the age of 30 (because young men get themselves killed in large numbers doing stupid dangerous stuff) or so, women outnumber men.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:18PM
Yes, have read that more boys are conceived, but it's all downhill from there. Male fetuses are more likely to miscarry, and boys are more likely to die pretty much at all stages of life. Worldwide, I think there is an oversupply of men thanks to the strong preference for male children in China and I think India, and their willingness and ability to manipulate the odds, even going as far as murdering baby girls shortly after birth.
I wonder if women are more devout because they suffer more, thanks largely to discrimination. I've heard that people become more religious when they experience tough times. That would explain the imbalance in many churches.
I actually am married now, to a devout woman who knew I was a "none" when it came to religion. She nearly dumped me over that, but had a change of heart. She likes to say grace over the food, and tries to drag me to church on Sunday. But there's no fakery, no living of a lie going on. I refused to pretend to convert for her sake. She had to accept that, or there would have been no marriage. She isn't trying to save me and bring me to Jesus, beyond worrying that the afterlife won't be as heavenly for her because she fears I will be burning in Hell. She's smart enough to see that non-Christians can be moral, ethical and upstanding citizens, and to see the opposite, that many self-proclaimed Christians are some of the biggest sinners and self-righteous jerks who can't stand to "love thy neighbor" and "judge not that ye be not judged" if that neighbor is gay, or a democrat, atheist, scientist, woman who's had an abortion, or just an insufficiently submissive woman, or all kinds of other things.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 02 2015, @03:29PM
Yes, have read that more boys are conceived, but it's all downhill from there. Male fetuses are more likely to miscarry, and boys are more likely to die pretty much at all stages of life.
It's not just conception, it's births. There's something like a 1.07:1 male-female birth ratio, IIRC. But yes, it's downhill from there: more boys get killed before adulthood, more young men die (auto accidents, wars), so after around 30 in the US the balance is in favor of women.
Worldwide, I think there is an oversupply of men thanks to the strong preference for male children in China and I think India
Yes, but who cares? We're talking about western society here since we're talking about SoylentNews geeks looking for women.
I wonder if women are more devout because they suffer more, thanks largely to discrimination.
I think it's more like women tend to be more submissive, and men tend to be more independent-thinking.