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Australian Broadcasting Corp reports:
From 1982 to 2005, we measured the location of the North Pole as drifting slowly southwards towards Labrador around six to seven centimetres each year.
But in 2005, the North Pole suddenly, and without any warning, did two new things. First, it chucked a leftie and started heading east, parallel to the Equator. Second, the North Pole more than tripled its speed to about 24-or-so centimetres per year.
Plain and simple, rapid melting of ice on land has driven Earth's North Pole to the east. This solid ice used to be on land, but is now liquid water spread everywhere across the planet.
We've been measuring this change to the land ice with satellites beginning in the early 1990s, right up to our current CryoSat-2, which was launched in 2010. Over the decades, the satellites have taken many tens of millions of height measurements. The most recent analysis tells us that between 2011 and 2014, Greenland and Antarctica between them were losing about 500 billion tonnes of land ice per year — about three-quarters of it from Greenland. This was an increase of two-to-three times over the previous loss rate as measured between 2003 and 2009.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:33PM
Next up, we'll see people blaming global warming for some unexpected details in the orbits of the outer planets. And, sunspot activity will be blamed on global warming. When does the insanity end? The earth is getting warmer, so ANY unexpected phenomenon are blamed on global warming?
We're fucked, people. This new religion just won't go away.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gravis on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:48PM
what has fucked us is people who deny climate change and those who refuse change due to it because that is exactly how we got in this mess.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:19PM
Wrll, Gravis, I've not said anything here about whether I believe in man-made global warming. I am stating, however, that the temperature of the planet's surface probably has zero influence over the magnetic properties of the earth's iron core.
We DO all understand that the earth's core is molten iron, do we not? Let us suppose, just for the sake of argument, that this global warming thing has penetrated all the way to the core of the planet. Does ANYONE really think that changing the temperature of that core by a degree or ten is going to change it's magnetic properties? Really? Anyone? Can anyone reference any studies in which a minor temperature change has affected the properties of magnetism? We're not talking about hundreds of degrees here, or thousands. One to ten degrees difference is all we're looking for.
Let em state bluntly - anyone who has even the slightest bit of education in the physical sciences who believes this nonsense has his head so far up his ass that his shoulders are chafing against his pelvis. There's no hope for some people, they apparently LIKE the atmosphere found inside of an anus!
Some real facts, which are easily verifiable via Google search:
The earth's magnetic north pole has shifted, almost continuously since mankind discovered magnetism. Magnetic north doesn't even stay constant from one place to another on the earth. Sailors have charts that display the variations in magnetic north, it's so well established that "north" is not always really north. The shift in the magnetic poles is NOT entirely constant and predictable - never has been, never will me. At least it won't be predicatable until the earth has cooled sufficiently to allow the iron to harden into a solid.
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml [noaa.gov]
So, some dimwit or another has "discovered" that the normal movement of magnetic north doesn't match his predictions. I have to wonder whether he even knows about magnetic variation. I have to wonder how sensitive his instruments are. I have to wonder how ACCURATE his instruments are. I have to woder about his competence to use these instruments. I have to wonder about his freaking INTELLIGENCE!
Bottom line: If global warming were ten times as bad as the gloomiest predicitons, it still wouldn't affect the earth's magnetic north pole, or influence it's travels.
"But in 2005, the North Pole suddenly, and without any warning, did two new things. First, it chucked a leftie and started heading east,"
Chucked a leftie? WTF? Maybe the magnetic pole UPCHUCKED after swallowing a leftie.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 5, Informative) by BK on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:39PM
Just to point out, this is about the physical rotational axis, not magnetic north.
I love that they point out that the axis had been shifting southwards before. It seems to me that any such shift is always southwards. Duh. It was shifting south and is now shifting south. But it's still north.
Wherever you go, there you are.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:07PM
LOL, I hadn't thought of that. At some point in my history, I've established the difference between true north and magnetic north. Ever since then, I've automatically pictured the movement of magnetic north in relation to true north. So - I went along with the idea that magnetic north was now moving eastwards. Thanks for the kick in the butt - now I can see that the North Pole is actually moving southwards, just as it always has done!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Informative) by TheSuperFriend on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:18PM
Okay, so the more accurate way to report the story would be to refer to the change in the axial tilt.
Although "north" is always "north", I can promise you that if either pole was pointed at the sun you'd notice an increase in your heating/cooling expenses.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Sunday July 19 2015, @10:05PM
"True north" is north on a map. That doesn't change. Axial north and magnetic north change all the time, but they have traditionally been very close to true north, although all that drift is adding up.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @08:50PM
Says the guy with 6 kids.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @01:54PM
what has fucked us up is retard progressives that want other people to pay for their unsubstantiated scams, whilst being the hypocrites that they are by using their technology that causes more global warming than 90% of the rest of earth's population
it's fine to believe in a cause, but realize that even though you may think its important, others aren't convinced and they are entitled to their own views. if you want to change the world, pay for it yourself. don't be the filthy bullying scabs that you are by trying to force taxpayers to bankroll your own feelgood campaigns
you're welcome to make a convincing argument, but marginalizing those who disagree with you merely because they disagree is fucking stupid. get over yourself
(Score: 4, Insightful) by BK on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:33PM
Another climate story, another screwed up moderation tree. Parent's moderation has changed from insightful to troll 2x in the past 10 minutes. "Disagree" clearly isn't enough for some people here.
Is moderating as troll the comments we disagree with acceptable now?
I do understand that it's important to let people on the internet know that they are WRONG, but is this the SN way to do it?
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:42PM
Well, that post is polemic (at least I cannot imagine that he really expects someone blaming anomalies of outer planets' orbits to global warming). I wouldn't moderate it as troll, but I can see why some would.
What the post certainly isn't, is insightful. Which also doesn't mean and shouldn't be used for "I agree".
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by BK on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:47PM
Interesting could work here. Or, and this is always the hardest, no moderation at all.
A score of 2 or 3 is just about right here imo. Unless you have an axe to grind.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:14PM
HA! You're obviously smarter than the average Soylentil. "no moderation at all". Just like everyone else here, I get a steady diet of mod points. I can't remember the last time I used up my day's supply. When I see a really good comment, I hit it with an insightful, or interesting, or informative. I just skim over most bad posts. And, of course, average posts require no moderation.
I think some poeple feel obligated to use all their mod points, every day. Which is akin to a local cop feeling obligated to use up his ammunition every day.
Heck, I don't even use the "agree" or "disagree" mods. I'd rather make a post, and state how and why I agree. That seems a lot more fun to me! Why waste a mod point to agree with someone, when I can tell them?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @01:40PM
There is an "Agree" mod option? I've never seen that. Only "Disagree".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @07:42PM
to let people on the internet know that they are WRONG, but is this the SN way to do it?
Seems like it worked this time. And proved once again that climate-deniers are just knee-jerk stupid. What more do you want?
(Score: 4, Informative) by penguinoid on Monday July 20 2015, @06:57AM
You're complaining that someone who first-posted with obviously false information on a controversial topic, while calling his opponents religiously insane, got modded troll? Read down the thread, he has badly confused the (clearly measurable) location of the axial north pole, which would shift due to the (necessary) law of conservation of momentum because of the melting of the (measurable) icecaps -- with his own invented lala land where the topic is Earth's magnetic north pole.
RIP Slashdot. Killed by greedy bastards.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nobuddy on Monday July 20 2015, @02:33PM
Its not a matter of disagree. he's absolutely and completely wrong (assumes magnetic north not axial tilt), goes off on a rant based on his wrong perception. Troll is the closest option to this nut.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:56PM
Its called science.
If you are confused by how a shift in the mass of the planet can affect the location of magnetic pole, rather than denying, out of hand, the work of the geologists and physicists, you should do a little research and educate yourself.
This is exactly what separates science from religion. You are the one demonstrating a religious view-- unyielding to evidence, and without need for research and education.
Apropos quote, "Education is the enemy of religion," Pope Leo XIII.
(Score: 0, Troll) by tftp on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:08PM
We're fucked, people. This new religion just won't go away.
Just like in good old days of Spanish Inquisition, the new religion burns "deniers" at the stake.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:39PM
Use your brain and think about what happens when a ball covered with water and ice on top spins. Now what happens when that ice hat is not attached to the ball but floating on it. It will never stay in the middle. It will sway to the side and offset the balance of the spinning ball.
Go buy a gyroscope and play with it. Learn to think before opening your mouth.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 20 2015, @05:24AM
"Go buy a gyroscope and play with it"
Done.
http://www.cmsnl.com/img/community/vehicles/7/79/791/79177/200912300116580.KZ750%20029.jpg [cmsnl.com]
Fact is, I can balance multiple gyroscopes, keeping them in harmony. It's an art. Different models have varying numbers of gyroscopes, but three is the minimum, four is most common, and five or six aren't uncommon.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @02:01PM
ftfy
(Score: 2) by Nobuddy on Monday July 20 2015, @02:29PM
Its a shame that so many people listen to what 99% of the scientific world says instead of crackpots like you. The world would be such a better place with the return of acid rain and black lung.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 20 2015, @05:54PM
whoa - wait a second. I missed that 99% of the scientific world had verified that the movement of the norht pole(s) had radically changed DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING. You have exactly one crackpot publishing a paper online here. The link doesn't even go to a peer reviewed paper, just some crackpot's blog and news article.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:48PM
Plain and simple, rapid melting of ice on land has driven Earth's North Pole to the east. This solid ice used to be on land, but is now liquid water spread everywhere across the planet.
That's quite a leap you're making there laddy... "correlation vs. causation" and all that.
Let me get this straight: I think climate change is real and I do think that humans are at fault but this extraordinary claim is... well extraordinary.
And we all know how it goes: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof/evidence. And I ain't seen any in this...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:02PM
It's not statistics it's physics.
(Score: 3, Informative) by BK on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:10PM
From TFA:
They have an observation but no mechanism. Premature to call it physics.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by crutchy on Monday July 20 2015, @02:06PM
It's not physics, it's fearmongering and speculation.
Simply stating a hypothesis to explain an observed phenomenon and claiming it to be true because it sounds 'technical' is not physics.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Pepty on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:12PM
Redistribution of the mass on a spinning spheroid affecting the spin axis isn't an extraordinary claim, Newton did the math 300 years ago. It's not a question of whether shifting several trillion tons of stuff from the surface of Greenland into the oceans would affect the spin axis, just by how much.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000GL011450/full
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Sunday July 19 2015, @07:57PM
Yes, but can it happen "suddenly, and without any warning" while the ice that's supposed to be causing it has been melding gradually?
I understand that shifting of mass can cause shifting of the spin axis, but I have a problem with the "suddenly, and without any warning" bit.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @10:26PM
Yes it can. Basically ice melts on the area making up its surface, at a rate dependent on the amount of energy available to it (which is roughly proportional to the specific heat and relative temp of what is in contact with it). What has happened more and more lately is huge chunks of ice breaking off. This does three things that cause faster melting: 1. smaller pieces mean that the total surface area increases; 2. landing in the water increases the specific heat of the substance in contact with it; 3. icebergs flow to warmer waters, which increases the relative temp of the substance in contact with it.
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:30PM
And we all know how it goes: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof/evidence. And I ain't seen any in this...
Well, it all comes to down which is the more extraordinary - the claim that the melting of ice has shifted the pole, or your claim that their claim is extraordinary.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @10:12PM
can i have some of what you're smoking?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by rst on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:28PM
Are we talking about the geographic or magnetic poles? It sounds like the summary is saying the geographic poles, but the details sound like the magnetic poles. Plus, like others have said, correlation is not causation.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday July 20 2015, @01:22AM
The rotational pole, which from the sounds of it, does not correlate to the geographic pole. This kind of make sense as if the rotational pole is moving close to a foot a year, that would mean the US and Canadian border, defined as 49 degrees N, would be moving all the time.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @07:53AM
that would mean the US and Canadian border, defined as 49 degrees N, would be moving all the time.
OMG! It's a Canadian Anthropogenic Global Warming Plot to talk over the northern tier of the United States! They will probably try to give us Quebec in trade. But now it all becomes clear. Terrance and Phillip were the first wave. Shatner, Celine Dion, and now Justin Bieber! Remember the Plains of Abraham, you real Americans! Where did you think all those Tories went? No, not the ones the became Confederates, the honest ones! Yes! North! "Strange Brew" is starting to look like a strangely prophetic film. Eh, hoseheads?
(Score: 1) by Bogsnoticus on Monday July 20 2015, @02:50AM
This is why RTFA is so important. It gives you this information so you don't need to post your ignorance and laziness to the world. :)
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:34PM
Isn't the position of the north pole by definition exactly on the north-most point of earth? I mean I understand it wandering relative to the geographic structures (that is, the earth changing its rotation axis), but the pole "drifting slowly southwards" doesn't make sense to me. Even less does "heading east, parallel to the equator" make any sense to me: First, from the north pole, all directions are to the south, and second, if the pole moves, so does the equator, so the pole can never move relative to the equator.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by CirclesInSand on Sunday July 19 2015, @03:57PM
There are 3 things that can be referred to as the north pole. First is geographic north pole: it is the intersection of the axis of rotation of the earth with the surface of the earth. Second is magnetic north pole : it is where magnets are facing. Third is just a vague reference to northern ice. From the summary, I'm not sure at all what they are referring to.
(Score: 3, Funny) by BK on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:06PM
You forgot the red and white post that Santa Claus lives next to.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 3, Touché) by CirclesInSand on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:03PM
No, I assumed you would mention it.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:12PM
Well, you certainly cannot measure the speed of a vague reference to northern ice, so the third is obviously out. The mass distribution on the earth's surface probably does not affect the position of the magnetic north pole, and certainly not in a direct way, so that would exclude the second option. But the geographic north pole is exactly what defines the principal directions, and therefore my comment applies.
But well, maybe they used Santa's home as definition of the north pole.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by soylentsandor on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:28PM
You forget number four: the coordinates 90°00'00.0"N 0°00'00.0"W in the grid we laid across the planet for navigational purposes. Today I learned that is called the World Geodetic System [wikipedia.org].
Relative to that, the rotational axis can obviously move to any quarter of the compass.
(Score: 2) by CirclesInSand on Monday July 20 2015, @08:15AM
Ah that should have been mentioned too. However, I think we can assume that global warming isn't going to change that. Hopefully.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday July 20 2015, @07:22PM
Interesting. However, as far as I can see, the Wikipedia article does not mention how the north pole is determined for those coordinates. Which means it doesn't answer the very question if the rotational axis can move relative to those coordinates.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @04:57PM
Yea the summary at least is conflating North pole and Magnetic North pole and in doing so suggests from the title that the earths axial tilt has been changed. All in all a very craptacular title and summary.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anne Nonymous on Sunday July 19 2015, @05:18PM
Great. Now all my maps are crooked.
(Score: -1, Troll) by curunir_wolf on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:04PM
Global Warming soon will be found to cause:
Did I miss anything?
I am a crackpot
(Score: 1) by rizole on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:40PM
Rhetoric?
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Sunday July 19 2015, @08:28PM
Hot air
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Funny) by FatPhil on Sunday July 19 2015, @11:07PM
It's just a shame that the reduction in smoking has caused the poles to shift so dramatically.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @07:02PM
How can the north pole move east? "parallel to the Equator" does not help (Parallel to a circle it is proportionally in the center of makes no sense).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @02:50AM
Suppose you have a device that tells you how far away from the north pole you are. One day you use it and walk until it reads 0 and you plant a flag at the north pole. Several years later, you return to the flag and take a reading off the device. You find that the flag is no longer at the north pole, and that instead your device indicates that the pole is a little ways to the east instead.
(Score: 2) by gnuman on Monday July 20 2015, @04:51AM
You find that the flag is no longer at the north pole, and that instead your device indicates that the pole is a little ways to the east instead.
By definition, North Pole cannot be "to the east". It can only be "to the north", and you are then "south of the new north pole".
When you are looking at map *projection* like this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections#/media/File:Equirectangular_projection_SW.jpg [wikipedia.org]
the north and south are completely distorted. When you put new north pole to the "east", it's not really "east". The projection is just causing a distortion. You need to look at more polar projection to map movement of poles. Something like this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections#/media/File:Gnomonic_projection_SW.jpg [wikipedia.org]
and then where is this "east" from the central point?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @12:16AM
kill the gopher...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20 2015, @01:18AM
The UN-IPCC looked at this a decade ago and said it doesnt affect the planet. Therefore these scientists are not 'on message' and need to retract their paper... for the sake of 'the science' ;)
Funny how people look at articles like this and ignore that 'the science' says it plays no part in the climate. Silly "flat earthers" ;)
(if you cant detect sarcasim, then you cant see that if you think that this is a problem then you're against man made global warming and therefore a 'dirty skeptic')
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday July 20 2015, @06:06AM
Indeed it was great.
One link in the summery.
That goes to an article that:
a. Has no citations
b. Mentions no study or scientist by name
c. Draws poorly worded and suspect conclusions from said un-cited sources.
d. Is in my opinion, a new site to list under my never go there list.
This article is worthless.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday July 20 2015, @06:13AM
The article does mention the GRACE program, but does not cite it as a source, only " such as the GRACE satellite, " which suggests the research did not come from there. It does explain the basics of GRACE, and makes no effort to tie it to this article beyond its mention.'
Publications that go on the "this must be true cuz I wrote it" premise should meet with an untimely demise.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday July 20 2015, @06:44AM
This appears to be the source of the story.
sourced from:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-change-has-shifted-location-north-south-poles/ [scientificamerican.com]
Who reprinted:
http://www.nature.com/news/polar-wander-linked-to-climate-change-1.12994 [nature.com]
who cite:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/grl.50552/abstract [wiley.com]
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.