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from the how-many-jobs-do-we-need-to-lose dept.
I came across the following ad on Indeed.com for a software position (copied directly from the ad, including errors):
Please read this job description carefully.
We are looking for solid C/C++ Engineer with valid h1b visa who are currently in US and willing to transfer his visa to our company for long term employment.No 3rd party.
Strong mathematical and analytical skills, in linear algebra, discrete mathematics and statistics. Have a strong knowledge of methods of dynamic programming.
Strong knowledge of parallel computing theory and tools like MPI or OpenMP.
In-depth knowledge of C/C++ language, strong knowledge of standard library and boost library and have a strong knowledge of template meta programming.
Have a solid experience with cross-compilation using gnu tools.
Development experience with Linux Red Hat, embedded Linux, Windows 7 using gnu tools like make, gcc, g++. Have experience with cross platform development and testing using Cmake.
Have a prove experience working with source control system Git, Cvs.
Have a strong knowledge of HPC and cluster's architecture.
Have a strong knowledge of scripting language like bash and python.
Strong object-oriented programming and design skills, like design patternsSalary: $85,000.00 /year
Required experience:
C/C++ experience ,Windows/Unix development: 8 years
Required education:Master's
Is it legal to limit a search to only H1B applicants? Do people see this often? Is it reasonable to expect a US applicant would be difficult to find? Or is it just no one would expect a US applicant to work for the mentioned salary in the Metro Boston area?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by ikanreed on Saturday August 22 2015, @12:56PM
Uh... They don't mean only H1B, you can apply if you want.
They just have such a huge plurality of H1B applicants that they want to filter out those who can't legally work in the US already.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by isostatic on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:00PM
No story here.
I thought H1Bs were "bady paid" and kept wages down. USA median household income was $51,939 in 2013, so $85k is pretty good.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Kilo110 on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:10PM
85k is certainly over the median of 52k, but that's irrelevant. What matters is how 85k compares to other similar job postings in that geographic area.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by BK on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:17PM
Masters in (presumably) CS with 8 years of relevant experience. Sounds about right for Pierre, SD.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:30PM
That said looking at the requirements, or as I like to call it the HR departments unrealistic x-mas wishlist, the applicant should have almost a decade of experience in software development and a masters degree with an emphasis on mathematics etc. I'm not certain that 85k is really that great a pay, but as you note it largely depends on the geographical location.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @05:57PM
85K for 8 years experience and a Master's degree? LMAO!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @10:57PM
I live in a town where a Bachelor of Science will net you the national minimum wage, often less when overtime is taken into account, but not having one will pay you more.
Even shelf-stacking supermarket staff earn more than those with a BS.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by ikanreed on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:16PM
Well, they do keep wages down in their field. How much? We don't know.
But the net effect on average productivity in the country is positive. Things can have a collective cost to one group(US born tech workers) and still fundamentally be a net positive once everyone is considered.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Saturday August 22 2015, @02:08PM
... for some very unusual definitions of 'everyone'.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by srobert on Saturday August 22 2015, @02:16PM
Yes, things can have a collective cost to one group and still be a net positive. But the notion that driving down wages either increases average productivity, or is a net positive worldwide, is highly dubious.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday August 22 2015, @04:11PM
No, $85K is downright insulting for an experienced engineer almost anywhere, and in the Boston area, it's nearly poverty-level. Boston is one of the most expensive parts of the US to live in, probably just under Manhattan NYC.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Francis on Saturday August 22 2015, @05:24PM
They are badly paid and there to keep the wages down. What you don't see in those sorts of postings is all the extra crap you have to put up with because of your residency status. AFAIK, the H-1B program doesn't require raises and doesn't require that the employer be willing to negotiate over salary in the future.
$85k, might be good, but if they're having to work extra hours or significantly harder with less protection, it still sucks.
I've been in the equivalent position before. And it just blows. I spent a total of 16 months working as a foreign expert in China and you have no job security, you get treated like crap and there's always somebody else available to fill in if they decide they don't like your hairstyle or the way you stand.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday August 24 2015, @04:18PM
I've worked with lots of H1Bs who were pretty happy with their pay, if sometimes annoyed of being at the mercy of the company (known some forced to leave the country because of bad management).
A few days ago, i saw a mandatory information posting for H1B in a company's break room: two mid-level H1B coders making $130k. Not everybody abuses the system
...
Do you know what an H1B gets you? Someone who's typically gonna work harder (not always longer) than the majority of smartphone-toting entitled us-born pricks who now come out of college. It oddly seems that crossing oceans motivates people to prove they're worth it.
(Score: 1) by Francis on Monday August 24 2015, @04:34PM
Of course not everybody does, but by the same token, there's enough that are abusing it and it's getting enough attention that it causes problems. I gave up on getting work in any of those fields because the entry requirements were absolutely ridiculous. Most of the postings I saw were ones that nobody could apply for. The people who could apply for it would never be willing to settle for a low-paying help desk job if they've got that many years of relevant experience.
The whole program itself makes things worse as it reduces the incentive to write job descriptions that are in line with reality and be willing to actually invest in employee development.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @05:53PM
I make 75k as a support tech in this same city, it's teeming with people. They are targeting an H1B, because the company is an H1B factory, which advertises as such. This salary is abysmally low for the area with the experience required. Around here He should be making roughly 100~125k/yr with stock options generally. If this is downtown Boston, that needs to go up even more. Then add in linux development on top of Windows development...this isn't some guy out of school, where around here you'd make 65k/yr to start. The salary is for someone with about half that experience.
http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Insycom/265869.htm [myvisajobs.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @01:55PM
I'm not one of the "No more H1-Bs - call your congressman now!" crowd, but this ad does seem targeted to H1-B's, since it's very unlikely they'll be able to find an American with that lengthy list of qualifications (C++, math, distributed computing, master's degree) willing to work in SD for $85K/yr. Of course, what they'll probably get is someone with 1 year of C++ who read web articles on Boost and OpenMP before the interview, and is confident he can pick up the linear algebra, discrete math, and statistics stuff on the job.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Saturday August 22 2015, @02:10PM
They just assume they're getting a lot of H1B people. I've applied to plenty of positions including a "please include your Visa information with your application" and gotten responses.
At first when I saw that I was discouraged too. Then I realized that I was dealing with recruiters who are lazy asses who get huge chunks of change for locating our skills. And I asked myself how lazy I'd be in their shoes. Then I got it.
(Score: 1) by Pino P on Sunday August 23 2015, @12:00AM
I've applied to plenty of positions including a "please include your Visa information with your application" and gotten responses.
Depends on what they want my Visa information for. I can think of two legit reasons:
(Score: 5, Informative) by MrGuy on Saturday August 22 2015, @02:07PM
I don't see a reasonable reading of that sentence OTHER THAN that they are looking specifically for H1B candidates.
Most job postings I see will say something like "no sponsorship available" or seeking "legally able to work in this country" if they're looking for either citizens, green card holders, or H1B's. This says....not that. It's pretty specific.
I guess you could argue that they didn't mean it that way, and that they're really looking for EITHER a citizen or H1B, but if so, it's very poorly written. Ironic, given they start with "please read this job description carefully."
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Saturday August 22 2015, @02:14PM
And this is more an "exception proves the rule" understanding that you need.
If they are demanding people with valid H1Bs then the contextually understood meaning is that they're ruling out people with invalid ones. Then you need to analyze why they're asking that. The natural conclusion is that their client doesn't want to sponsor a new visa, quite possibly because they've exceeded their limit. So citizens would be a good thing.
Now then: is the recruiter an ass who isn't even considering the possibility of an American citizen applying? Yes. Is that a symptom of something dysfunctional? Yes. Does it represent an intent to discriminate? Probably not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @06:02PM
No, this is an H1B factory looking for H1Bs. They bill themselves as such. Google the company, it's one of the first things that comes up.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @06:05PM
No, this is an H1B factory looking for H1Bs. They bill themselves as such. Google the company, it's one of the first things that comes up. The company website is blank, and for a company of "10" people they've filed 46 requests for H1B visas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23 2015, @03:59AM
You are an illiterate moron.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @03:28PM
I think that "...please read this job description carefully..." means exactly that: "We are looking for... Engineer with valid h1b visa"
There is not question of what that sentence says. And we should take it for what it means rather than assuming they meant anything else. Send that advertisement to you congressman.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 22 2015, @06:18PM
Indeed. Regardless of some rare exception to the rule, the way it's written would probably make citizens think they're not suppose to apply for the job, or that it is indeed discriminating against them. And that's what matters. I agree, show it to a congressman (that cares about his job) and you'll probably set him on the warpath to get to the bottom of it because this is NOT what those visas are suppose to be for.
(Score: 1) by meiao on Tuesday August 25 2015, @12:25PM
I don't have an H1B and I am legally allowed to work on the USA.
Although I had a really hard time telling this to prospective employers.