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posted by LaminatorX on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:30AM   Printer-friendly
from the diamonds-in-the-coal-pile dept.

John Koblin writes in the NYT that there's a malaise in TV these days that's felt among executives, viewers and critics, and it's the result of one thing: There is simply too much on television. John Landgraf, chief executive of FX Networks, reported at the Television Critics Association Summer Press Tour that the total number of original scripted series on TV in 2014 was 371 and will surpass 400 in 2015. The glut, according to Landgraf, has presented "a huge challenge in finding compelling original stories and the level of talent needed to sustain those stories." Michael Lombardo, president of programming at HBO. says it is harder than ever to build an audience for a show when viewers are confronted with so many choices and might click away at any moment. "I hear it all the time," says Lombardo. "People going, 'I can't commit to another show, and I don't have the time to emotionally commit to another show.' I hear that, and I'm aware of it, and I get it." Another complication is that shows not only compete against one another, but also against old series that live on in the archives of Amazon, Hulu or Netflix. So a new season of "Scandal," for example, is also competing against old series like "The Wire." "The amount of competition is just literally insane," says Landgraf.

Others point out that the explosion in programming has created more opportunity for shows with diverse casts and topics, such as "Jane the Virgin," "Transparent" and "Orange Is the New Black." Marti Noxon, the showrunner for Lifetime's "UnREAL" and Bravo's "Girlfriends' Guide to Divorce," says there has been a "sea change" in the last five years. "I couldn't have gotten those two shows on TV five years ago," says Noxon. "There was not enough opportunity for voices that speak to a smaller audience. Now many of these places are looking to reach some people — not all the people. That's opened up a tremendous opportunity for women and other people that have been left out of the conversation."


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by niceholejohnson on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:52AM

    by niceholejohnson (4934) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:52AM (#231048)

    There's not enough reason to commit to shows on american television because they're highly prone to cancellation. Why should I commit to a show if the network won't? I've seen too many shows run on for a long time (gotta milk that cash cow until it dies, apparently) and then get cancelled before concluding.

    This damages the viewers' trust in future shows. Nobody wants to commit to anything because it's almost guaranteed to die instead of finish. What percentage of american television shows reach their conclusion? 1%? 3%? There's no reason to take the risk.

    Meanwhile, in the rest of the world...

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  • (Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:02AM

    by frojack (1554) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:02AM (#231052) Journal

    Meh!
    I'd rather watch a series that had a beginning and a pre Planned end, a pre-determined number of episodes. Then it Ends.
    Go out and find something new. Writers run dry after a while. They need to move on. So do you!

    Battle Star Galactica, (say what you will) at least came to an end, but that end should have been at the end of the second season.

    Wrap it up people, nobody wants to make a lifetime of any show. Shows should be canceled. You were not meant to have it accompany you on your life's journey.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:21AM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:21AM (#231060) Homepage

      Meh, I can kinda understand. Captain Kirk narrated the beginning of every episode of Star Trek: ToS with the assertion that it was a "five-year mission," but it lasted only 3 years.

      Star Trek: TNG, DS9, and Voyager all lasted 7 seasons. That's a good number to grow and explore as a series before going out with a bang, as all three series finales did.

      Enterprise sucked ass, but we all knew it would. Was that Sammy Hagar singing the title song? Seemed it was also a make-work program for some former franchise cast members:

      " A number of episodes of Enterprise were directed by Star Trek alumni:
      Star Trek: The Next Generation - star LeVar Burton directed nine episodes
      TNG and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - star Michael Dorn directed one episode
      Star Trek: Voyager - star Roxann Dawson directed ten episodes
      Voyager star Robert Duncan McNeill - directed four episodes"

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:40AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:40AM (#231078)

        Enterprise sucked ass, but we all knew it would. Was that Sammy Hagar singing the title song?

        from Memory Alpha:

        "Where My Heart Will Take Me" is the main title song of Star Trek: Enterprise. Originally titled Faith of the Heart, it was written by Diane Warren and originally performed by Rod Stewart for the 1998 movie Patch Adams. The version for Enterprise was performed by Russell Watson. It was the only Star Trek theme song besides the Original Series that was not completely an instrumental, orchestral piece.

        http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Where_My_Heart_Will_Take_Me [wikia.com]

        I wish they had kept as the title theme "Wherever You Will Go" by The Calling, which was used in promotional material.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wherever_You_Will_Go [wikipedia.org]

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:45AM (#231081)

        Three of those are widely acclaimed and decorated directors. LeVar Burton is a board member of the DGA, Robert Duncan McNeill has directed on the order of 100 projects and Dawson has a reasonable resume as well. If you count in Jonathan Frakes and others, Star Trek, as a series, created an astonishing number of highly regarded directors. However, I'll never count William Shatner on that list, regardless of anything else he does, I can never forgive him for the terrible job he did on The Final Frontier.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:54AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:54AM (#231090)

        "Star Trek Enterprise" was a holodeck program by Will Riker. It sucked ass because it was fiction-within-fiction like "Dixon Hill" or "Captain Proton"

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @04:52PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @04:52PM (#231342)

        Meh, I can kinda understand. Captain Kirk narrated the beginning of every episode of Star Trek: ToS with the assertion that it was a "five-year mission," but it lasted only 3 years.

        The other two years were only boring space travel and therefore were not made into shows. After all, you cannot expect something exciting to happen every week.

        Note also that episodes cover a larger time than the length of the episode.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:53AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:53AM (#231109)
      0) The OP was complaining about TV series being cancelled. You're talking about something else - TV series being planned with beginning, ending and predetermined number of episodes. Shows like that still get cancelled.

      1) The newer BSG had a really crappy ending that made little sense and was quite stupid in many ways. That end didn't look very well planned. Heck much of BSG didn't seem planned either so it's a pretty bad example.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:16AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:16AM (#231197)

        1) The newer BSG had a really crappy ending that made little sense and was quite stupid in many ways. That end didn't look very well planned.

        Oh bullshit.

        I had it pegged at the escape from New Caprica: "They'll find Earth and we're all Cylons, they'll find Earth and it's prehistory, or they'll find Earth and we've destroyed ourselves." I was right, and I built that up from watching the story progress.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by theluggage on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:13AM

      by theluggage (1797) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:13AM (#231196)

      I'd rather watch a series that had a beginning and a pre Planned end, a pre-determined number of episodes. Then it Ends.

      I don't thing the G.P. had a problem with that - its when you just get the beginning, then it gets cancelled.

      A major problem is the US model of 20+ episodes per season and a "success" threshold of at least 100 episodes is broken for stories with ongoing plots: its just too long to string out a single story. If a show wants to go hundreds of episodes, the "soap opera" format with multiple storylines that start and conclude independently is the way to go (if Game of Thrones wants to go that way they need to find some way of concluding subplots other than arbitrarily killing off protagonists). There's also the art of the end-of-season cliffhanger. It should really take into account that the show might not be back, and resolve the main plot-lines of the season: the "cliffhanger" should be the consequences of resolving those plots, not padding them out.

      Babylon 5 (whatever other faults it had) did the cliffhanger bit quite well with "nothing's the same any more" being the typical end-of-season state. It did nicely illustrate the problem of stretching a planned story over 100+ episodes (it was really limping at the end), though, and was at its best when two seasons got collapsed into one. I've actually just finished watching Breaking Bad and (while not evangelising it too much) that got several things right, too: shorter seasons, cliffhangers that resolved the season's plot while still leaving you desperate to know what happened next, and an ending (love it or hate it). There's always the option of a spinoff or prequel...

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by quacking duck on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:43PM

        by quacking duck (1395) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:43PM (#231255)

        Babylon 5 (whatever other faults it had) did the cliffhanger bit quite well with "nothing's the same any more" being the typical end-of-season state. It did nicely illustrate the problem of stretching a planned story over 100+ episodes (it was really limping at the end), though, and was at its best when two seasons got collapsed into one.

        To be fair, the plot was limping in much of season 5 precisely because the threat of cancellation forced them to compress and wrap up the major storylines in season 4, then when TNT picked them up they suddenly had to fill in the first half of the season with less exciting plotlines and filler episodes. It didn't help that they couldn't secure Claudia Christian (Ivanova) for the last season and had to cast a new character and spend time filling that backstory.

        B5's network(s) also had a terrible habit of holding the last 4 or 5 episodes of the season until the fall (in the US anyway; the UK usually got them early), so any suspense at the end of season finales (of which only season 1 and 3 had legit cliffhangers IMHO) were effectively wasted.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:08AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:08AM (#231055)

    It is extremely rare for a show to ever really 'finish.' Practically zero shows go into production with even the vaguest sense of an ending or even a middle. They make it up as they go along. The fact that shows get canceled before they can 'end' isn't a problem with the network committing, its a problem with story telling.

    My approach is simply to take it as it comes. Its nice when a show gets a full season, but I have no expectations beyond that. That's one of things great about netflix's approach to dropping an entire season at once - you are guaranteed to get the full season.

    My experience is in line with the article - there is a lot of crap, packed with filler and low quallity story telling just to pad out the episode count. Especially on, but not limited to, broadcast television - Extant, Falling Skies, The Last Ship, Stitchers, Z Nation, Helix (season 2). All shows that run/ran the treadmill with just the barest minimum of story in each episode. BTW, UnReal is excellent, one of the best new shows this season. For me, its right up there with Mr Robot and Humans. Not perfect, but still great.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:22AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:22AM (#231061)

      Good point, which is why I started watching British TV shows. The crap coming out of Hollywood is... well... shit. The last show produced in North America I liked was Fringe, and they screwed that up in the last season.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by blackhawk on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:34AM

        by blackhawk (5275) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:34AM (#231074)

        Humans, Luther, Dr Who (sometimes), Torchwood (sadly now over), Silent Witness, In The Flesh, Life on Mars (original), Orphan Black (UK + US), Sherlock, The Fall...heck, most of what I've watch lately has come from the UK. Not only do they generally make a much better show, with less pandering but they know when to finish up the series.

        Vikings has got me hooked too, more so than Game of Thrones these days. It just feels more relate-able and like there's less filler / people standing around in court rooms talking. Plus...Lagartha...

        • (Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:47AM

          by frojack (1554) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:47AM (#231083) Journal

          Even the Canadians make a better show.

          And then end them too.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:49AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:49AM (#231086)

            Those stargate shows went on forever...

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:59AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:59AM (#231092)

              Not anymore, unless you count Dark Matter as a stargate show.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:31PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:31PM (#231222)

              Those stargate shows went on forever...

              Except for SGU, the one with the most potential. :(

            • (Score: 2) by quacking duck on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:52PM

              by quacking duck (1395) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:52PM (#231258)

              Those stargate shows went on forever...

              The first series, SG1, tried wrapping up several times: Seasons 6 (kind of), 7 and especially 8. They just kept on getting renewed, and having to up the stakes higher and higher with more powerful enemies. Then in the 10th season when they actually planned the plot to extend to another season, they got cancelled, and had to wrap up that storyline in a TV movie.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @07:20AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @07:20AM (#231161)

          Ahhh! The Game of Thrones. I remember that well. Every morning!

          Three sisters. Two bathrooms.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by MrNemesis on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:11AM

          by MrNemesis (1582) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:11AM (#231195)

          There's even a trope about it: British Brevity [tvtropes.org].

          Essentially, british shows frequently have only one person, a "show runner", behind them instead of the authored-by-committee nature of a lot of US shows. Likewise there's no real drive here for what I think you guys call syndication (indeed, the real drive here is selling something to you leftpondians and the number of episodes seems immaterial to that). As such, when a show gets commissioned it's typically already had the entire series written and if there's a second series pending that'll already be plotted out. There's little appetite for filler since there's no need to stretch each series out for any longer than the story merits and it would detract the writer from bringing in the bacon for the juicy bits.

          Incidentally if you haven't seen it already, please give The Shadow Line a whirl. It's very highly stylised and the dialogue won't be to everyone's taste but it's got a fantastically labyrinthine plot and Chiwetel Ejiofor (for my money one of the best actors alive) and manages to go wrap itself up in a neat little bow after seven episodes. Likewise Stave of Play and Utopia (the first series at any rate). Perhaps I just like conspiracy stories.

          I was pretty annoyed when I discovered Carnivale was canned after two series for its spirally production costs; was a great swooping kitchen sink about american culture and its links to the old world and one of the most texturally rich depictions of 30's depression that I've seen. It's scope was sadly too big and it was chopped off at the knees :(

          --
          "To paraphrase Nietzsche, I have looked into the abyss and been sick in it."
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:41PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:41PM (#231364)

            I wholeheartedly agree about Carnivale. I had fallen in love with that show and poof it was gone right when it was getting into the main plot. I was very disappointed and I keep hoping (against hope I know) that someone will pick it up again and run with it.

  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:32AM

    by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @01:32AM (#231072) Journal

    and then there is the ones that finished and shouldn't have: Lost comes to mind.

    We're dead... or angels, or something... or, well... make up something so we can end it, put it into disc form and try to make MOOLAH, LOTS AND LOTS MOOLAH, HAHAHA!!! THEY'LL EAT IT, SO F*CK THEM, THEY'RE STUPID ANYWAYS!!! HAHAHA!

    And please bring back Sherlock... it was quirky and fun. Stop doing movies and finish it, you guys... sheesh. I WANT SHERLOCK!

    (Yes, i know Sherlock is probably dead in the water like Torchwood... sigh).

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:21AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:21AM (#231103) Journal

      On 2 July 2014, Sherlock was renewed for a fourth series. The three-episode series is scheduled to be filmed in early 2016, following a full-length Christmas 2015 special that went into production in January 2015.

      Sherlock [wikipedia.org] is far from dead. It's one of BBC's biggest successes. "The third series became the UK's most watched drama series since 2001."

      They just take a long time to make it, and Cumberbatch and Freeman's exploding careers probably push it back even more.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday September 02 2015, @03:49AM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @03:49AM (#231120)

        Wow, they're calling 3 episodes a "season" now? Damn. That's taking it to a whole new level of "waiting a whole year for another 5 episodes of Being Human."

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:19PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:19PM (#231214) Journal

        Thanks! :)

        I figured they would be too expensive now that they're 'SUPER STARS'!

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:20AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @11:20AM (#231199)

      Season 4 is coming at the start of next year. The promos [youtube.com] are out (you can find more there). Please forgive the music, it's that no-talent hobo Lorde murdering that song. I don't know what the hell it did to her, yet she killed it but good.

      There are a couple of frames in the promos that show stuff that didn't happen in previous series, so don't watch too closely.

  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:11AM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:11AM (#231097)

    What's done? When Fonzi jumped the shark, had Happy Days reached its conclusion? When Buffy & crew were put under a spell that outed all the secrets (because the writers had twisted themselves in an unbreakable knot), was Buffy done? I'd say yes, but both shows ran on for seasons after that.

    It's over when the advertisers say it is.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @12:36PM (#231225)

      It's over when the advertisers say it is.

      Exactly. Take Supernatural for example, it was originally written to end at season 5, yet here it is about to start season 10, because its popular. I'm expecting they'll eventually end up killing God (they already killed Death) and even that won't end the show.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:06PM (#231350)

      Well, that phenomenon is not restricted to TV series. After all, Douglas Adams also didn't plan for five hitch-hiker books; the third book marked a natural end of the story.

  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:28AM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 02 2015, @02:28AM (#231104) Journal

    "not enough reason to commit to shows"

    What does that even mean?

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 02 2015, @06:46AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 02 2015, @06:46AM (#231153) Journal

      "not enough reason to commit to shows"

      What does that even mean?

      Yes, I'm missing the meaning of "shows" as well.

      (HHOS this time. Personal opinion: what they are showing no longer worth the name).

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2015, @05:11PM (#231354)

        Well, the meaning of "show" is that it is shown. The stuff clearly is shown, therefore the term "show" is appropriate. The term "entertainment" however might not be appropriate.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 02 2015, @07:00PM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 02 2015, @07:00PM (#231398) Journal
          The more appropriate terms are "exposed" or "shamed".
          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford