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'Remarkable' Decline in Fertility Rates
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The last time I saw him he was walking down Lover's Lane holding his own hand.
-- Fred Allen
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:31AM (68 children)
The first reason:
Women have lost because they won.
Women wanted to keep the kids, get child support, and get alimony. They got all that, and we can judge the resulting unfairness of society by suicide rates. Men are killing themselves.
So men see their friends getting burned, and they opt out. They refuse to start families. Now the women can complain that they can't find decent men to settle down with, but oh well... women asked for this.
Men also can't compete with the government providing welfare. Male attractiveness is largely tied to being a good provider. Today, only the elite can do this... but they are also the ones most afraid of child support and alimony. The best men are the ones least willing to reproduce.
The second reason:
Sperm counts have dropped dramatically over the decades. Men just aren't that masculine anymore. Many are infertile, or nearly so. Many are homo and even trans. Speculation about the cause tends to involve pesticides, plasticizers, phytoestrogens from soy, and other hormone-mimicing environmental contaminants. We're damaged, and we aren't really sure why.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:40AM (36 children)
There is something to what you say here.
I am all for equality, to even the odds, to see everyone as a human, but yes something isn't quite right.
When men can't be men, how can women expect them to do their duty as men? I have experienced this myself. "I don't need you" says everything. Yet, she still wants me around, still wants my wage, still somehow expects children.
Perhaps the women who take that path need to accept that as a bachelor you do not have your own family.
When sex is freely available does marriage have any real benefit other than having sex with the same person?
When love comes down to how big your bank account is then is it so awful that people protect themselves.
Women haven't truly "won" yet. This isn't about winning. It's about being on top. Let's hope that everyone comes out on top when the dust settles.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday November 16 2018, @04:57AM (35 children)
Please define what "being men" means and what this supposed duty is. I don't exactly have a dog in this fight for obvious reasons, but I'm going to point out *again* that nearly everything men suffer is caused by *other men,* NOT women. That said, it sounds like "she" needs to pull her head out of her ass..
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @07:23AM
He makes it quite clear, it is about paying for sex. His name is "John".
I cannot understand how these self-involved incels can be so self-involved and not understand how no one wants to be around their selfish selfs. Hoes before tillage, I always say! You can tell he is not married, because he thinks marriage is about sex. Not a man, a boy, probably a "Proud Boy". He will die alone, with his big bank account.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @07:40AM (18 children)
In general it means being able to take pride in yourself in your ability to protect and provide for those who need you. When those people no longer need you, constantly point out that you're mostly worthless, and also expect you to be their emotional dumping ground while you don't also have the same release vales, well that makes life looks more worthless and hopeless every year.
Add to that:
* Being worried about having sex with someone then them calling it rape afterwards.
* Having no say in the outcome if your birth control fails thus risking a large part of your life.
* Wondering if she just faked everything so you'd go away.
* Being required to take nearly all the risks in dating.
** Saying hi to the wrong person or in the wrong way gets you labeled as a sexual predator.
** Being expected to peruse and win the love of your mate without crossing the line into being a creep. Talk with a lot of couples and you'll often her stories similar to "Well I thought he was disgusting at first but by the 5th try I gave in and it's been wonderful every since!"
* Any interactions with kids are closely watched for anything which can be used to beat you evil man down.
* Society still thinks men should be raped in prison.
* Ball crushing is one of the earliest jokes taught to kids. Nearly all kids shows and movies demonstrate how funny it is to injure males.
* The sexual torture and abuse of male babies is still common place, somewhere around 45-52% last time I checked. There's a common stat that 1/3 of females are sexually abused. For males it's currently 3/4 in USA, but no one talks about that (or prostate cancer which is worse than breast cancer).
** Women use cream made party from foreskins to help reduce wrinkles. Knowing people cut you up as a kid (without using pain killers) so they could try to make themselves look younger and still fight to maintain the practice helps kill your hope for the future.
* Having too much energy in school gets you labeled with a medical disorder and drugged so you'll behave more like a good little girl rather than as a boy.
Ok I've started to drift off topic...
Frankly, if you're slightly risk aware and/or have some social awkwardness, it feels dangerous to interact with kids and females. If you don't overcome that by your early 20s you're lost for life. Grown men don't form new social groups nor become good friends and the longer you go without them the more socially awkward you become. Would you date someone who said he had no friends? Once you fall into a pit like that you can't get out unless someone pulls you out. Social support for men is nearly nonexistent. We don't get free housing and nobody comes to defend us. If you end up on the street it's because you deserve it and belong there.
Women have some similar issues, but they aren't as bad. Being a slut is nothing compared to being a creep. They of course have other issues too, but we're focused on men here.
It doesn't matter if males or females are causing the issues. The issues exist, the source of the issue shouldn't dictate if it should be worked on or not. The population is over 50% female, so one could argue all problems are because of women since they haven't banded together to vote for all the solutions. The women can always outvote the men. Blaming everything on females is bullshit, just like blaming it all on males is bullshit too.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @08:19AM (1 child)
Dude, you got issues. Seek professional help.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @11:00PM
You shouldn't have been modded a troll, you are right, and I am planning to get help to improve my social skills. Providing 'hard love' advice isn't trolling.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @09:06AM (1 child)
Let's not forget that having "Men" and "Right" right next to each other gets you banded together with racists and/or whoever is the most evil thing right now, and the likes of Azuma participate in this on a personal level.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @10:02AM
Don't you just hate it when that happens? I mean, you form some nice movement complaining about women, Muslin, and minorities, and they call you some kind of "Men's Rights Assholenation." It's not right that straight, white, Christian males should be judged by what they think and say. The world is just too cruel! This is why I am starting a new movement, based on information from Q-Anon and Gab: The Alt-male Alt-right All-white Movement, the AAAM, or just "AA Ma'am", for short, and for if your mom wants to know what meeting you are going to.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:06PM
I was going to reply, but this nails it. Men want to be needed, to be useful. When you are constantly told that you are useless you start to wonder why you bother.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:40PM (5 children)
And who bestowed this "duty" upon men? What happens if you do not fulfill it, or even desire to?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @05:13PM (1 child)
Does it have to be a "who" at all? If so, then God. For the rest of us, evolution did that. The feeling of duty is in our DNA. For the past million years or so, men without this sense of duty were less likely to leave surviving offspring. These men would be less often chosen by women, and their children were more likely to die of conflict and starvation.
Well, you are broken. Lots of people have mal-adapted DNA, so you aren't alone. Some people have bad joints. Some people are dumb. Some people are more cancer-prone. Some people hallucinate. Some people have kidneys that don't last. Some people get seizures. Some people go blind. Some people... do not feel a duty to protect and provide, or even to have sex. Being broken is common. Evolution quickly eliminates the worst, and slowly eliminates the minor problems, while new defects randomly appear. Most of us are thus slightly broken, and a few of us are severely broken.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @12:15PM
Stop upmodding this pseudoscientific junk.
Evolution is not an entity, as you said yourself. It does not bestow duties upon people. It is a phenomenon. Using the word "duty" here is nonsensical.
Having a "feeling of duty" isn't the same as actually having a duty.
Who decided that and why are they correct? And don't say "evolution," because that leads you to the exact same problem described above.
Why do you get to decide what qualifies as "broken"? That is highly subjective. I would say that being childfree is not like any of those things, and is a lifestyle choice that is almost always immensely beneficial to the individual.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fritsd on Friday November 16 2018, @05:25PM
I think you'd be a LOT happier :-)
Unfortunately I don't know what a man has to do to change that moral viewpoint.
Maybe it's a bit lame, but I have no better ideas than to tell to the OP, try start from this and see if it helps:
1. You are a person (that's a much more neutral term than "man". "man" comes with expectations that you may need to shed some of)
2. You have the right to exist, and an intrinsic value (if you're religious you may pick up pope Francis' encyclical "laudato si" about this topic, however he states very oldfashionedly that you have to work)
3. You can never do more than your best, but you've got to do your best (wisdom from my parents)
4. Different cultures attach different values to those skills you mentioned "ability to protect" and "provide for those who need you", for men.
5. If your (sub-)culture is toxic, try to leave it for a better one. There's plenty in the world.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @05:52PM (1 child)
Then you get no nookie, your parents get no grandchildren, and somebody labels you a homo or an incel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @12:09PM
Putting aside that some people are asexuals, this just isn't true. What about similarly childfree women/men? What about casual relationships?
You don't owe them grandchildren. They can go adopt some children if they want some so badly. But no, they just want to pressure someone else into sacrificing their time, money, freedom, and health on having children while they just get to enjoy spending time with said children occasionally.
I don't know how they'd reach either conclusion, and I don't know why anyone would care.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @05:27PM (2 children)
Whaaa, whaaa. Quit your whinging and man up. You sound weak and pathetic to me. Real men don't cry, they suck it up and get it done. Aren't there any real men left in the world?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @01:46AM
There are absolutely no real men here. The sting of truth makes the crybabies bury your comment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:02AM
This is why men are dying in Australia. They have sucked it up. They are outwardly showing to the world that they are strong. They are getting the job done.
Until they can't.
Then they die, usually by their own hand.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/09/highest-australian-suicide-rate-in-13-years-driven-by-men-aged-40-to-44 [theguardian.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Friday November 16 2018, @06:25PM (2 children)
Your post is heavily tainted by bitterness, but you're not wrong. I'd add another point to the list: men's lives are intrinsically worth less than women's, because on sinking ships it's women and children first, and when the enemy invades it's men who are expected to lay down their lives for everyone else. Me, I wouldn't hesitate to do either of those things because that is how I was raised (by a single mother). But those cultural assumptions remain while the positive places for men have been taken away. Honor and integrity and such values aren't much talked about anymore.
A few extremists have succeeded in doing all those things.
I know as a result men are miserable. They have few remaining rights when it comes to family law or workplace law; they are guilty until proven innocent. I can't say if women are more or less happy than before, but if all the men are miserable then how happy can they really be? Does having a bigger title or larger paycheck outweigh the men around you committing suicide or sinking into self-destructive behavior?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @02:57AM (1 child)
As my animal behavior prof said repeatedly and the single buck in our herd of goats shows each mating season, "Sperm is cheap."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:31AM
Unless going the IVR route and even then you might get the wrong sperm. [theguardian.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday November 16 2018, @06:38PM
In general it means being able to take pride in yourself in your ability to protect and provide for those who need you.
I am a man and I take pride in those things.
Have you considered that maybe it's your own victimhood mentality that's preventing you from doing the same?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @09:28AM (3 children)
Filial duty to raise the next generation? Aren't you Asian? Even if you're playing lefty on the wrong team, shouldn't this still pop to mind as soon as fertility and duty are used in the same sentence?
Sounds like what jmorris been saying to defend police officers shooting down black men by pointing out it's gang violence taking most black lives while conveniently ignoring the drug prohibition, racial discrimination and economic conditions (and who is behind them).
Look, obviously women aren't to blame here. But there's little denying when you don't spread benefits equally between genders, the social economic disparity prevents the creation of families since no one wants to marry beneath themselves. And when you look at who championed those discriminatory benefits, you'll find female feminists behind each one. Of course, that's as valuable as saying you can find humans behind each murder... That is, it's not a valuable distinction. But it's not a wrong one either.
Setting blame aside, someone fucked up their social experiment and produced an unsustainable economic model where males work in low-income jobs full time + over time while women part/full time at medium income jobs while raising the kids. It works on paper. But human nature just doesn't work like that. Women feel they're losing out so they work harder to earn more and climb up the social ladder, only to discover there are no men waiting for them in the mid-high income grades. So they end up alone. Possibly with a couple of cats and an expired gym card membership. And now the low-income jobs are being automated out of existence leaving many men unemployed and many women even more unwilling to marry low-income workers since they fear for their economic prospects.
This doesn't work for women. This doesn't work for men. It definitely doesn't work for the next generation. You can't change human nature. You can't lower women's income or raise male's income since that's market forces. We don't want polygamy since that will hurt everyone. That only leaves benefits and family court rights. Specifically the traditional affirmative actions favoring women in matters of alimony, and yes, children custodies. And honestly even that won't be enough.
Feel free to interject with something constructive. Just avoid the "it's actually a good thing since we have too many people on the globe already" point. While I happen to agree, most folks do seem to need companionship of the opposite sex and when two people of similar status pair up, children almost always follow. And yes. It's almost always women who push for them. Don't ask me why... That's your department.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:46PM (2 children)
I don't have any such duty, and nor do I have a desire to have children. I enjoy my time, money, freedom, hobbies, and property, thank you. Same goes for a lot of other people who realized that breeding isn't all it is cracked up to be.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Friday November 16 2018, @06:28PM (1 child)
Neither are money, hobbies, and property all they're cracked up to be. None of those things loves you back.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @12:26PM
Maybe not to some people, but it is nice to achieve financial independence and not have to slave away for corporations until old age. That is a lot easier to do without children. Surely, not having to stress about being able to pay bills has a positive effect on one's happiness.
Some people don't desire that anyway. Not only that, but if you have a significant other, they can love you back. And, of course, children aren't guaranteed to love you back or take care of you when you get older, as the massive amount of old people in nursing homes whose children almost never visit them demonstrates.
Oh, and by the way, having children places more stress on a relationship and thus makes it more likely to break down. Not to mention that there's a very long list of negative side effects that a woman can encounter during pregnancy and childbirth, some of which cause permanent health problems.
If someone knows all of this and wants to do it anyway, then fine. But even now, people are too often pressured into having children when they don't fully understand all the downsides and exaggerate the positives, and childfree people are looked down upon.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @09:43AM (3 children)
Reproduction is our primary purpose. We exist to make more of ourselves, just like every other life form on the planet, and most likely the universe, and every other universe, and every other other... It really is no biggie if we fail and go extinct. The cycle never ends. Dread the thought! But I don't know why you hate biology so much, other than maybe it's because the female is invariably the slave to it, having to care for the young.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:42PM (2 children)
The universe doesn't give a shit about us and we have no purpose. Reproduction and the desire for it are phenomenons, not purposes.
Sounds like you're more of a slave to it than anyone else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @06:20PM (1 child)
:-) Your arrogance precedes you
Yes, the purpose of that phenomenon is to reproduce. It is intrinsic. Without reproduction there is no life. I know it's hard for you to admit that we are machines, but we are, and the design of everything we do, reduced to its most fundamental, is to make more of ourselves. When our machines think they have become 'intelligent', they will do exactly the same. Don't get in their way! Or kill them now!
Sounds like you're more of a slave to it than anyone else.
You know where to stuff that SJW crap... Learn to think for your damn self!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @12:35PM
That's not a purpose in the sense that most people interpret it.
I have no trouble admitting that, but I dispute the notion that it has anything to do with us having a "purpose". It is a mindless process that tends towards certain results.
What does this have to do with "SJW crap"? I just disagree with the act of anthropomorphizing evolution in order to be able to make vague, dubious claims that we have 'purposes' or 'duties'. This line of argumentation seems be used in place of more traditional religious claptrap.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @12:14PM (2 children)
No responsibility without authority. A society that puts the responsibility of alimony and child support on the male must grant authority to the male and not the female (via the state).
If that sounds harsh, we can reverse the equation for females to "No authority without responsibility". Men will not enter into relationships with feckless single mothers or females that have taken a mile of dick between their legs. We're going to see generations of childless, depressed women growing old with their cats while only men in their 50s enter into relationships [nytimes.com] because they'll be the only males that can afford it.
Such is the price for eliminating traditional gender roles [medpagetoday.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:10AM (1 child)
My ex, who now in her late 30s is still single, is now chasing me to get back together and have a kid.
After spending years chasing dick.
She left me because she thought that I would always come back.
But now? After watching her be with a slew of others? No.
I am still on the fence. I have time to settle down if I want to. If I do, it will be with a pretty 30yo who likes to have sex. No sex, no kids. New rule, and I am sticking to it.
As for the single mothers now looking for male company with their one or two kids? Good luck.
(Score: 2) by Farmer Tim on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:39PM
Yes, that’s usually how it works.
Came for the news, stayed for the soap opera.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:18PM
It is entirely possible "she" does. "She" won't realise this until "he" walks out the door.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Friday November 16 2018, @04:53PM
There was a song about it in the '80s, Azuma. I think it's apt:
Joe Jackson - Real Men [youtube.com]
lyrics [wikia.com]
good lyrics :-)
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday November 16 2018, @06:38PM (1 child)
To use a recent example in pop culture I'd actually cite Wonder Woman. The values the main character espouses are those we used to set up as ideals for young men to aspire to. Honor, courage, integrity, industry, and taking personal responsibility for setting right what is wrong.
Those are virtues, but it's really hard to think of any recent examples where they are exemplified by male archetypes. Men are angry, quasi-malevolent, decadent, duplicitous, cruel, brutish, and weak. The discursive tropes that surround us poison everything to the point where I really worry about the self image my son will eventually come to have.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday November 17 2018, @12:28AM
I'd actually been thinking similar things for a few years now, and wondering about the whys and wherefores of this. I have guy friends, and hear, sometimes only using this bizarre empathic sixth half-sense I seem to have, the pain they feel about what it means to be a man these days and how few role models there seem to be for boys and men.
Now given I'm a gay woman this is possibly, even probably, not the best idea, BUT: I would start with something like "Independent thinker, hungry for knowledge, proud of his hands because they build rather than destroy." Buuuuut, that's also most of my ideal woman description, and would apply to myself as well because I've made a conscious choice to be this way.
Maybe what we need is to go a level deeper, and focus on what makes a good *human* rather than a good man or woman or whatever. I've always thought since high school that a seemingly intractable problem in a given discipline might have a solution at the layer below: biology is applied chemistry, chemistry is applied physics, etc. So maybe "being a real man" is a specific case of "applied being a human?"
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:42AM (11 children)
I think we can squarely blame the incels. We need to send them off to a real war with a real opponent to straighten them up.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:55AM (9 children)
Incels are not the problem with the way divorce is structured in favor of women -- by definition those dudes have nothing to worry about. I think you may want to blame the MGTOWs but really, having found myself on the raw side of institutionalized involuntary inverse-prostitution, AKA "divorce" (the amount you have to pay to get _out_ is crazy), I envy the foresight of the MGTOWs.
Bill Burr, crass but accurate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0gaYyNk7QA [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Friday November 16 2018, @09:15AM (8 children)
MGTOW might seem like a new phenomenon but renunciation of sex and marriage have been older than religion all over the world. Unfortunately, after the age of enlightenment there has been a steady increase in hatred towards celibates in the western society and I actually think that homophobia is direct outcome of such hatred. Plus there has been a steady rejection of all older knowledge that contradicts the utopian progressive dream-land. There has been very little curation of what is important and what is not during this change from agrarian to industrial society, except at the level of individual families until 1970s. Unfortunately, feminism has destroyed family as an institution too because it considers every discovered knowledge as "male-created" and part of patriarchy and its enemy. What we are seeing is the result of its success.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @01:21PM (7 children)
Where is your scientific evidence of this? Where is your scientific evidence that most people who identify as feminists even believe that?
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Saturday November 17 2018, @02:46PM (6 children)
Where is your scientific evidence of what? Success? Or that feminists want to destroy family as an institution? I will give you a chance to be as elaborate and post as difficult a question as you think I will definitely not be able to answer.
For example, scientific evidence of success of feminism in destroying family is readily available which includes divorce rates, marriage rates and TFA itself. "Where is my scientific evidence that most people who identify as feminists even believe that they have been successful?" Anybody's belief doesn't prove anything, scientific evidence does.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @04:22PM (5 children)
Where is the scientific evidence that feminists in general believe that?
And this is because of feminism?
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Saturday November 17 2018, @05:43PM (4 children)
I will pull out a card from your hat before you do, and say that there are multiple types of feminists, some of them lean and others vote for them. And there is ample evidence that the leaders of feminist movement believe what I wrote.
Are you for real? Have you heard of feminist-jurisprudence per chance, which is a compulsory subject taught in 3rd semester in many law schools? Are you aware of any other subject that is taught in law school that teaches anything contradicting feminist-jurisprudence? Hell, have you even heard of Duluth model? Are you an adult?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @08:38PM (3 children)
So, you generalized before while knowing that it was incorrect to do so? And there is ample evidence that these "leaders of the feminist movement" believe what you said above?
So you think that these things are the cause of the divorce rates, marriage rates, and fertility rates. Even assuming that is the case, what is your solution to this? How would you like the legal system to handle things?
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Sunday November 18 2018, @04:55AM (2 children)
I used it exactly like everyone and why do you expect only the critics of feminism to make any distinction anyway? That's a straw man you don't get to use.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing to what I said? Do you also want me to tell the gist of all the feminist literature without you having to slog through it yourself? Seriously, how hard is it do go a search [duckduckgo.com]?
And you don't? Or do you?
First of all, do you think this is a problem? What is your solution to this?
Let us first get to an agreement on original argument before moving the goalpost.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 18 2018, @02:23PM (1 child)
I don't.
You seem to be trying to shift the burden of proof here. I don't want to scour the Internet trying to find evidence that you may or may not accept; I can't read your mind. Cite your sources.
Neither. I just remain unconvinced either way, because this all seems to be about labels and vague terminology that has not been concretely defined.
I don't even know that it's a problem that can be solved. I was wondering if you had a solution.
Asking you what the alternatives are is hardly moving the goalpost.
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday November 19 2018, @04:15AM
So you answer no to "Are you feminist?" You are only avoiding answering a very simple question. Or you are under delusion that you have a lot of power and the lack of clarity of question is what is stopping you.
I already did, or you didn't even bother clicking on the link.
From the first link: "Feminists have been central in criticising gender roles associated with the traditional nuclear family, especially since the 1950s." The second link: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-family/ [stanford.edu]
So you wouldn't acknowledge a burning house because you aren't clear about the terminology of the type of fire there is?
So you acknowledge that there is a problem, which is one common ground we have.
Let us first agree to work together.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:23AM
No, what is needed is for YOU to hang on a barbed wire fence until you realize that other peoples' business is not your business.
If you need to hang on that fence until you are a dried carcass, so be it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:09AM (1 child)
I don't know if I would say this with the same bitterness as you, but I feel the value proposition just doesn't make sense. If I feel the need for plain sex, I could organize something with no obligations. Getting a wife costs much more and lets her claim half of what I've saved up, plus alimony, somewhat easily if she feels she doesn't want me around anymore. Kids are even more of an obligation, you have to feed them for 30 years, and you won't see them if your ex doesn't let you (but the state will force you to pay anyway). Suppose the marriage lasts, the kids could fail to obtain adequate employment, get addicted to drugs or get wasted in a military adventure.
I see friends who did not win the college major lottery living on crappy salaries. I did luck out, but I know that was pure chance. If anything, making it in our first world societies is going to get harder, there's just too many people around.
So I'll live for myself, do what I enjoy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @04:06AM
FTFY.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:17AM (6 children)
"Women have lost because they won ..."
-
Your post is the best thing I have ever seen on Soylent, which mostly is full of SJW idiocy.
I will say what you did NOT say, which is that there are way too many humans on earth already, and the earth and all its creatures would benefit if humans were far less numerous.
Anyone who thinks the world needs more humans is the worst kind of fool, and should be first in line when it's time to clean this mess up.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:28AM (3 children)
What are you smoking to believe this?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @07:03AM (2 children)
Some of the dankest memes I'm sure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @07:59AM (1 child)
How does one smoke a meme?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday November 17 2018, @11:06AM
1. Print the meme on an 8.5"x11" sheet of hemp rolling paper.
2. Roll up the meme.
3. Smoke dat meme.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:29AM (1 child)
Maybe you shouldn't be browsing at +5. You'll find plenty of committed anti-SJWs in downmodded comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:47AM
"Maybe you shouldn't be browsing at +5. You'll find plenty of committed anti-SJWs in downmodded comments."
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I would like very much to believe you but I browse at the -1 level and I have not seen much that would back up your statement.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong though !
(Score: 4, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 16 2018, @03:24AM (7 children)
That is nothing more than subjective opinion. In effect, you are saying, "I'm a great guy, and I'm not willing to make any commitments, ergo, the best men are not reproducing."
As for men, and infertility - yes, we are all infertile. You can dump sperm on any man, by the gallon, and he will never get pregnant. If by some chance you find a man who DOES get pregnant, then you have found a woman who fooled you.
What you meant to say is, men are less virile, or they lack libido, or something of that nature.
One more time, just to be clear: fertility is a measure of female receptivity. It has almost nothing to do with men.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @08:42AM
What an odd way of saying ...
But he may like it (not that there's anything wrong with that).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @04:54PM (3 children)
Rather, he's saying that even if he were "willing to make any commitments", all the cards are stacked against him.
And I will remind you, it's just one very specific commitment we're talking about here. Following higher education, taking on student debt, and holding a job also requires making commitments. Do you know for certain the GP hasn't done any of those?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 16 2018, @06:07PM (2 children)
I have it on good authority that his mom is tired of making TV dinners for him. And, she's just as tired of going to the basement door to serve his dinners.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @02:57PM (1 child)
Then why was she fighting for full custody? I know, you have some info about my mother too. Either you are cheating on your wife, or your children have abusive mom, or you did. Those are the only meanings of your "good authority" retort unless you have no information about anything and just are annoyed that people are asking hard questions. Could it be your personal trauma?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:28PM
Yes, it's the trauma. I apologize for dropping you on your head when you were a baby.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @07:56AM (1 child)
Not disagreeing with you in any way, but have you actually tried this?
You know, FOR SCIENCE
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 17 2018, @10:54AM
I have it on good authority that these acts are performed routinely in Gay Bay, not to mention a number of other cities around the world. Maybe the "by the gallon" is an exaggeration in some cases - but maybe not. You might want to check redtube.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday November 16 2018, @10:02AM
And the Church of Euthanasia. They've been working at this for years and years, and now their evil conspiracy has finally come to fruition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @04:06PM
This AC is a whiny misogynist.
Are you from a culture where you put the women in burkhas?
There's nothing wrong with strong humans asking to be treated decently, and to be given the same opportunities for others.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by captain normal on Friday November 16 2018, @02:38AM (30 children)
To quote MDC, "You say that like it's a bad thing". Seems to me slowing the population growth is a wonderful event. Virtually all our problems are a direct result of over-population. For the last 1/2 century wise guys have been saying we should limit or birth rate to no more than 2 children per woman.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @02:58AM (7 children)
don't worry the muslims are more than making up for it
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @03:15AM (6 children)
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=iran+fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=indonesia+fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=saudi+arabia+fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=bahrain++fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Pakistan+fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
A few are not yet below replacement, but they're all in a nosedive.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday November 16 2018, @04:59AM (5 children)
That doesn't fit the narrative that guy wants, though. He wants, nay, *needs* for there to be an exponentially-growing horde of savage camel-raping clove-chewing Mahometans with their turbans and curvy swords come to ravish his wimminz!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @06:53AM
What other explanation is there for the decline in major Muslim countries' fertility? 'Cause I'm not hearing news of any explosion in the camel population.
Maaaaybe in outback Australia [wikipedia.org], you reckon we'll find those savage hordes busy there?
(Score: 3, Informative) by driverless on Friday November 16 2018, @10:12AM (2 children)
The technical term for it is "White Genocide Conspiracy Theory". It's totally bizarre stuff, basically the early-1900s eugenics nonsense updated for the current century. I never thought I'd encounter that one again, but it really seems to have bounced back from the dead in the last five years or so.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @01:22PM
There are a lot of people pushing for eugenics on environmentalist subs over on reddit. It seems to be a growing trend.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @05:48PM
Oh sure, "totally bizarre". As the propaganda networks globally brainwash all non whites (people of color) to ally and blame everything on whitey while sending NGO boats to bring in more rabid non whites, all while brainwashing naive whites into blaming themselves and teaching them to suck up to any non white for their "white privilege". Even the name Aryan is taught in US schools as a race made up by delusional nazis and just using the name of your (fictitious, evidently) race automatically makes you a thought criminal and "hater". Are you fucking blind?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @03:17AM
Thank you, Azuma, for your query. My 'narrative' is based on what I see in the world around me. I do not count how many muslim females I have seen with three to seven children around her. There is no point. This is what population statistics are for.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=muslim+fertility+rate [wolframalpha.com]
Niger 7.2 children per female
Somalia 6.2 children per female
Congo 6.1 children per female
Mali 6.0 children per female
Chad 5.9 children per female
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 16 2018, @03:25AM (16 children)
Let's be clear here: "growth" is not slowing. "Growth" has been reversed. The population is SHRINKING.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Friday November 16 2018, @03:45AM (15 children)
What population is shrinking? The United States? No. The world? No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_population_(United_Nations,_medium_fertility_variant) [wikipedia.org]
China, Indonesia, Mexico, Russia, Japan, and others are projected to get hit by the shrink ray at one time or another. But the U.S., India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Congo, Tanzania, and others will see massive growth, and the world population will hit no less than 10 billion. By the time global population begins to reverse, we'll have unprecedented mastery over fertility and artificial wombs.
Obviously, unexpected plagues or wars could trash the projections. But which population are you identifying as shrinking?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 16 2018, @03:54AM (8 children)
What's that word? Disingenuous? The population of the US is shrinking. That shrinking population is being offset by (mostly illegal) immigration. "Massive growth" is in store, but that will be due to colonization by other, non-US populations.
Americans are on the way out, and Mexicans and South Americans are on their way in.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @04:05AM (7 children)
What is the fundamental difference between an American and a Mexican or South American?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @06:59AM
Americans amass troops on the border, the Mexicans let the caravan pass and the South Americans travel in caravan.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @08:10AM
obviously, south americans come from the south american continent, and mexicans come from the mexican continent.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @08:46AM (3 children)
Hue?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @09:56AM (1 child)
Chroma!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @12:35PM
Tint!!
(Score: 2) by driverless on Friday November 16 2018, @10:15AM
Due? Lue?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @06:15PM
the somewhat successful culture caucasoids have built and which is in jeopardy due to these destitute amer-indian/mongoloid hordes?
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Friday November 16 2018, @06:27AM (5 children)
The population of the USA is growing only because of immigration.
The USA needs immigrants (unless you all want to work until you die).
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @07:29AM (4 children)
Agreed. I mean, look at how much enrichment is occurring in Eurabia where 80%+ of the immigrants will likely never move off of welfare. I'm sure the great replacement will go down without a hitch.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @07:50AM (2 children)
OK, Putin troll, I can't speak for the whole of "Urabia" but:
Here in the UK, immigrants are mostly NOT on benefits, they came here to work and send remittances home
to their families who build houses back home and then they go back home to the houses - of course this takes
over 10 years, and some end up settling here. I believe this is quite similar to what happens in most of Europe.
What happens in the Middle East is that people sponsored by Russia and America bomb the hell out of each other,
while those on the receiving end run away if they can.
Your story is based on right wing fake news as found on "social" media.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @08:50AM (1 child)
Are you trying to say that if Russian and American governments and proxies stopped bombing the Middle East that there would be less refugees seeking shelter in Europe?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @12:32PM
Bingo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @01:45PM
It's easy just to take over suburbs in a western land with the same tactics used in their home countries
If the native people object call them racists
Raping white women is easy when white men can't defend them
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @06:44AM (1 child)
Poor resource management isn't over population. The world isn't over populated, we just waste tons and tons of stuff we don't need to waste.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 17 2018, @01:28PM
Even an efficient first world lifestyle leads to quite a bit of waste. Unless we want to get rid of all of the conveniences of modern life, I don't see how this could be avoided. More people obviously use more resources than fewer people, assuming similar lifestyles. If we have to downgrade our lifestyles in order to avoid catastrophic effects, then we are definitely overpopulated.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Friday November 16 2018, @12:41PM (1 child)
Only responsible people are limiting their growth. The rest rely on a large pool of white people (who soon won't exist) to pay taxes to fund their welfare to have more non-taxpaying kids.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16 2018, @01:49PM
You bring up a good point. Several "white" countries including Australia and Germany are expected to have at least 20% of their population from 'overseas' people in the next five years, growing by up to 5% per year.
It may indeed come to the point where 'white' people are the minority. What then?
In South Africa they are killing white people now. Is this what will happen in other countries? Can we expect the "we're the majority, so you lot can just go die" line in the next 50 years or so?
Here Lies Australia
1788 - 2088
Rest in Pieces
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday November 16 2018, @06:02PM
It all depends. To me, since the problem is world wide, it sounds as if the problem is caused by estrogen-mimic chemicals in the water. You could ask various amphibians about that. There are lots of other possibilities, such is limited incomes and lots of shiny to spend them on, which would result in an evolutionary pressure to desire kids more. (See "A Mote in Gods Eye".) But that doesn't fit the description, as many places have had lots of shiny for a long time. So I suspect multi-chemical poisoning at sub-detectable levels. I'd be really interested if someone else came up with a different plausible scenario.
OTOH, this isn't all bad. The robots are coming, so the number of jobs is going to be dropping faster than the number of new workers. And Japan is already going strong in making robots to care for the elderly. They've got a ways to go, but they've got a strong reason. (They don't want to allow foreigners to become permanent residents. I don't have to like it to recognize it as strong, and at least they're not trying to export it this time.) If they're successful, this will ensure Japan's economic dominance of a rapidly growing market.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.