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The last two of eight prototypes for President Donald Trump's proposed border wall took shape Thursday at a construction site in San Diego.
The prototypes, including one built by Israeli defense firm Elta, form a tightly packed row of imposing concrete and metal panels, including one with sharp metal edges on top.
[...] The models, which cost the government up to $500,000 each, were spaced 30 feet (9.1 meters) apart. Slopes, thickness and curves vary. One has two shades of blue with white trim. The others are gray, tan or brown — in sync with the desert.
Bidding guidelines call for the prototypes to stand between 18 and 30 feet (5.5 and 9.1 meters) high and be able to withstand at least an hour of punishment from a sledgehammer, pickaxe, torch, chisel or battery-operated tools.
Features also should prevent the use of climbing aids such as grappling hooks, and the segments must be "aesthetically pleasing" when viewed from the US side.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @10:24AM (56 children)
No protection against shaped charges. Or underground tunnels. Or man-made flying objects.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday October 21 2017, @10:44AM (12 children)
I think we can fairly safely assume that it's just not going to be the physical wall. While they didn't go the full moat full of crocodiles (I think they would have been turned into croc-tacos anyway) and/or sentry guns route I think we can assume there is going to be a whole battery of sensors near, on and around the walls and there will still be patrols on the right side of the border. So hopefully they'll know if someone runs up to the wall and plants a shaped charge, if nothing else they'll hear it soon afterwards, and one would hope they know how to spot a catapult or other hurler of flying objects. Tunnel-digging is also a sensory job.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:07AM (3 children)
Your usage of the word "right" concerns me...
(Score: 4, Funny) by looorg on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:12AM (1 child)
It could be the left side of the border to depending on where you look at it from.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @03:15PM
I'll give you a point for pedantry but you still sound like a sleazebag to me...
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday October 24 2017, @08:27AM
Of course Trump will weigh in. He'll choose the winner, the winner, the winningest wall of winners, it'll be winning, winning, winning all the way.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday October 21 2017, @01:21PM (6 children)
A bazooka rocket is also a shaped charge [wikipedia.org]
Just for the fun of it: damage a half a million wall segment with a $500 round [military-today.com]
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday October 21 2017, @01:35PM (3 children)
The model or prototype might be $500k each, that doesn't mean that the finished or fabricated segments will be $500k each. There is clearly not enough materials or labor cost in there for that price, so this will just be the prototype and R&D costs.
I don't recall now what has been said but the wall is probably not going to be put EXACTLY on the spot of the actual border, I assume it will be a little inside the US-side so there is a bit of US on both sides of the wall. Enough room for a mine field perhaps or the option to shoot to kill anything that gets close to the wall. So if they start shooting RPG:s at the wall from the Mexican side I think this will quite quickly escalate and you'll start to see more armed patrols that will shoot to kill anything that even gets close to the wall, there will be actual working mine fields etc.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @03:21PM (1 child)
I see you support extra-judicial killings as well as judge-jury-and-executioner powers for those you whom you, mistakenly, think would welcome you in their 'in-group'.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday October 22 2017, @02:29AM
See, I wonder if Trump even knows about the wall that came down in 1989? That one started construction in 1961 and had a pretty successful run reducing border crossings for 28 years. A lot to learn from that experience: frontier zones, shoot to kill towers, etc. Also: what people on both sides thought of it, and what that ultimately did to the empire which tried to maintain it.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:06PM
As you say, those are the costs for the models or prototypes. As for the wall itself, the article tells us:
That comes to, in round numbers, $13,500 per meter or $12,350 per yard ($135 per cm or $343 per inch).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:36PM (1 child)
Your link says the price can be as little as $100 per round.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday October 22 2017, @12:13AM
To be pedantic, the second link says
Worst case scenario, $500.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday October 24 2017, @08:11AM
I'm surprised they haven't contracted in any companies from the former East Germany. They have a lot of experience in building this sort of wall.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @10:51AM (40 children)
Yup. Be cheaper to just go with land mines and concertina wire.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:15AM (5 children)
You can thrash mexicans and the cartels for a lot of things, but they are certainly both smart and dedicated enough to fine a way over that wall and monetize it, whether compromising border agents, disabling the sensors, blowing a hole in it, or just driving a truck with a ramp up to it and rappelling down the far side (hint: 30 foot wall is short enough for a crane or firetruck, or even a people carried and assembled pole or gantry crane. Get people on both sides of the wall for transportation and it isn't much of a stretch to pull off. Assuming you don't just burrow under. If time is on your side you can tunnel without enough noise to be detectable as seismic events, and probably not even by acoustic or seismic sensors directly on the wall itself.
Just another in a long line of political boondoggles from the American Political Cartel.
Hey, maybe it is time to use RICO against them?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 21 2017, @01:56PM (4 children)
Here by the border tunnels are a big deal, such that cartels hire geo and structural engineers willingly or by force to assist in their design.
They have such advanced features as ventilation ducts and even mine-style rail car systems and on the us side tunnel into warehouses bought with cartel money.
Yep, Mexicans, man. They're like termites. Breed like vermin and never go away once they're in.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:33PM
You're being stupid again.
(Score: 3, Informative) by krishnoid on Saturday October 21 2017, @09:55PM (2 children)
A legitimate news organization [theonion.com] confirms this.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday October 22 2017, @04:19AM (1 child)
Has the Onion moved into real jornalism?
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Unixnut on Sunday October 22 2017, @09:19AM
> Has the Onion moved into real jornalism?
The fact nobody can tell, or be sure, says a lot about the state of the modern world.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:28AM (33 children)
Looking at the images of the various prototype-wall-segments in article I am a bit surprised that there doesn't seem to be more concertina- or barbed-wires or just more spikes and razors. OK so they don't want things to stick out that can be used to aid climbing and such. Still I had guessed they would have looked a bit more unfriendly. Mine fields are great and all but I don't think they'll put one down mostly for safety reasons, still the US hasn't signed the land mine ban treaty as far as I can remember so it could technically be an option. The outcry if they did tho might be a bit much. Still they could put down like a non-lethal mine field.
It wouldn't surprise me to much if the Israeli firm (ELTA) wins the contract, considering they have decades of experience in building walls to keep the wrong elements out (or in). But then it's rarely the best that wins government contracts.
Construction costs are one thing, but it's not a one time cost. I do wonder what the maintenance costs for the great MAGA wall is going to run per year.
(Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @12:40PM (29 children)
Yeah, the above wasn't said in seriousness. If we really wanted a secure border we'd have one though. Keeping an area from being crossed by anyone is a long solved military problem. It's just not in either party's interest to actually have one. The Republicans need a porous border so they can repeatedly sell the idea of a secure border that will never materialize. The Democrats need a porous border or they don't get a steady supply of illegal voters and people dependent on government handouts.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @03:24PM (3 children)
You keep using such phrases without backing them up with actual evidence.
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:16PM (2 children)
The evidence is the publicly stated policies of the Democratic party. I can't force someone who's willing to gouge their own eyes out rather than admit the truth to see though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @10:51PM (1 child)
Donald Trump has a position paper [donaldjtrump.com] on the topic. I didn't check carefully but it looks like it's the same one that was there before the election.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @12:13AM
Let me handle that.
Voting when you aren't registered to is a felony.
If it was the slightest bit true, the prisons would be full of those folks and Buzzard could give us a long list--instead of zip, the way he did.
...and when you hear about this stuff, it's always Republicans who are the offenders.
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=li:1&q=intitle:Steve.Bannon+registered.to.vote+at.an.empty.house [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=voter-fraud+intitle:Gingrich+11100+1500 [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=voter-fraud+Ann-Coulter+Palm-Beach [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=voter-fraud+Mitt-Romney+sold+home [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=voter-fraud+Todd.Akin [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=voter-fraud+%22.Charlie.White%22 [google.com]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @04:40PM (3 children)
[citation needed]
Illegal voters are only a problem in the delusional fantasies of brain-damaged republitards. People dependent on government handouts are only a problem because the United States has devolved into a corporatist kleptrocracy that can no longer properly feed and house all of its people.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:36PM (2 children)
Illegal voters exist. Nobody knows in what numbers but that they exist is an inarguable fact. Why does nobody know in what numbers? Because Democrats raise holy hell when anyone tries to verify someone is eligible to vote before they do. Why is that, do you think?
And people are dependent on government handouts because every single race anyone with a D by their name is telling them how they can't possibly succeed in life, but here, have some money. If we spent a quarter of what we do on entitlements teaching people to be self-sufficient, there would be no need for handouts.
Don't get me wrong. The Republicans are absolutely in the pockets of big business and only too happy to sell out the American public. The Democrats are far, far worse though. Republicans only take opportunities from people; Democrats take hope. Their entire political strategy consists of telling you it's impossible to succeed on your own but vote for me and I'll take care of you. People would be better off losing power over their lives at the point of a gun. At least that would be honest.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:29PM
I don't know. What I do know, however, is that the FBI enters people's ID and drivers license photos into a facial recognition database, thereby increasing their ability to conduct unconstitutional mass surveillance on the populace. If I could trust the government to do a single thing without abusing my rights either now or at some point in the future, that would be nice.
They both take away hope, since politics is a soul-crushing game of authoritarianism and corruption. Neither party supports the Constitution. Even though they claim to, most gun rights advocates don't even support the 2nd amendment, since they support gun control as soon as they deem a weapon to be 'too dangerous' (like with fully-automatic and explosive weapons). Obviously gun control advocates don't care about the 2nd amendment. Very, very few politicians in either party seem to support the fourth amendment. Nearly all of them support limitations on freedom of speech that do not exist in the first amendment (some combination of obscenity, free speech zones, protest permits, hate speech, etc.).
I am not convinced that democrats are far, far worse. They are almost equally abysmal.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday October 24 2017, @12:08PM
There are millions and millions of illegal voters, at least 7 million. We know because we have a database. Kris Kobach found them with his Interstate Crosscheck. His database. The Dems obstructed it in a lot, a lot of states, but he found millions in the database. There's massive voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire, and California. These are people who vote in two, three, four, five states on the same day. People, in my opinion, that are voting many, many, many times. Which is a very serious crime. And some have been charged. Believe me, they have been charged. Several faced charges and had to appear in court. There's a very credible study, the Richman study, that found a lot, a lot of illegals are voting. Tremendous voter fraud, very crooked. And if you deduct those millions of people who voted illegally, I won the popular vote.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday October 21 2017, @04:57PM (3 children)
No, we wouldn't, because never in the history of the human race has there been a completely secure political border. People managed to get across the Berlin Wall. People managed to cross the Great Wall of China. People can and have breached Israel's Gaza wall. Hadrian's Wall in Britain was crossed periodically by Pictish raiders.
We aren't even able to completely secure the interior of an airport: Every once in a while, somebody gets past the TSA, everybody panics and shuts down the entire airport until they find the idiot who wandered down the wrong hallway. If we can't do that, what makes you think we can secure hundreds of miles of desert and river basin? There's always the equivalent of a 2-meter-wide thermal exhaust port somewhere. A combination of bribery, spying, ingenuity, and courage always find it, sooner or later.
And even if on the off chance we had perfect walls all along the US-Mexico border, it's not like (A) the Mexicans don't have boats and can't simply sail around it and land in California or Texas, and (B) they can't enter on a tourist visa legally and then take a job illegal and overstay their visa.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:19PM (2 children)
I said "secure" not "perfectly secure". Perfect is the enemy of good.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:23PM (1 child)
Border walls are another enemy of good.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:49PM
You know this isn't Twitter, right? You don't have to substitute pithy for intelligent.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:35PM (13 children)
Oh please! Just stop! Both sides need a porous border because the agricultural, textile, and other service industries that pad the party coffers demand cheap labor. Most "illegals" are brought here, and are working, with no social benefits. All this silly self-righteous indignation is such a distraction. Put a sock in it!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:51PM (12 children)
Erm... which social benefits are they denied? I'm not aware of anything but Social Security that is even legally allowed to ask your immigration status.
That aside, I agree with you. Illegally exploiting cheap labor from across the border needs to be stopped.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @06:25PM
Illegally exploiting cheap labor from across the border needs to be stopped.
Fine then, focus on that, and you won't need to waste taxpayer money and energy on some stupid Wall!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @12:23AM (9 children)
Illegally exploiting cheap labor from across the border needs to be stopped
I never thought that I would hear Buzzard say "Workers of the world, unite!"
That's what you're saying. Right?
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 24 2017, @12:57PM (8 children)
Nah, I'm saying the workers of the US have been getting fucked by the lack of immigration enforcement for the past... well longer than I've been alive. I'm a nationalist not a globalist. You make sure your own household has enough to eat first, then you worry about the neighbors, then you worry about the people across town.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 25 2017, @03:28AM (7 children)
...[and] the people across town.
I'm quite certain that in all of those cases, the adversary is the same: The Capitalist Ownership Class AKA The Man, trying to keep us (The Producers) down.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 25 2017, @10:29AM (6 children)
That's your answer to everything. Don't feel like you're making enough money? Capitalist oppression. Healthcare getting more expensive? Capitalist oppression. Stub your toe? Capitalist oppression. At least you're consistent in your victimhood instead of coming up with a new way to blame your life on someone else every time though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 25 2017, @09:17PM (5 children)
Multiple times before, I've referenced Economics professor Thomas Piketty and his 696-page analysis of 250 years of Capitalism.
His conclusion is that Capitalism always leads to Oligarchy (concentrations of abusive power).
So, yeah.
Capitalism also leads to empire, and empires self-destruct.
Your powers of observation don't seem to be as sharp as the professor's.
Your willingness to excuse abusive exploiters, OTOH, is vast.
Condolences on your malformed amygdala.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 25 2017, @09:31PM (4 children)
A) 250 years out of many thousands is what we like to call "cherry picking", so I'm not interested in your professor's flawed-by-design analysis.
B) Capitalism has been a key trait of just about every successful empire ever.
C) Socialism has been a key trait of zero successful empires ever.
But do please keep blaming it for all your woes. I need a good laugh now and then.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 26 2017, @02:54AM (3 children)
Capitalism hasn't been around for thousands of years.
As we have seen here repeatedly, most people who like "Capitalism" don't even know what it is.
Suggest you look up "Feudalism" for starters.
successful empire
The words are oxymoronic like "military intelligence", "jumbo shrimp", and "congressional ethics".
Every empire so far has collapsed and USA is clearly in its steep decline.
Socialism has been a key trait of zero successful empires ever
"Oxymoronic" has already been used.
Additionally, "Socialism" and "empire" are antithetical.
...meanwhile, Capitalism, empire, and murder are all closely linked.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 26 2017, @10:50AM (2 children)
Rulership is not the same as an economic system. Feudal systems were pretty much entirely capitalist both on the peasant level and the noble level. If you don't understand at least that much you have no business speaking on economics; if you do you were being deliberately disingenuous.
You seem to hate the word empire. Which is irony-meter-breaking given that you want to impose your will across the entire world. I assume you genuinely don't see the tyranny in that, which is both hilarious and pathetic.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 26 2017, @08:45PM (1 child)
Heh. I was quite sure that you don't understand either and I was right.
In Feudalism, the serf class was bonded to the land.
Unlike an employee who can move to another job, if a serf was found wandering around off his noble's estate, he was in deep shit, very much like a slave in the slave economy of the USAian South.
...and a noble was bound by Noblesse Oblige to look after his serfs--unlike Capitalist employers.
I've previously mentioned Aaron Feuerstein, "The Mensch Of Malden Mills".
He stands out in that he made the very unusual effort among Capitalists to take care of his employees after they were idled when his factory burned down.
So, NO. Capitalism and Feudalism have different names because they're different things.
Again: Most people who like "Capitalism" don't even know what it is.
to impose your will
You don't understand actual Democracy and cooperation either.
Your vision of the world is a very unpleasant place, so full of top-down and conquest that you can't imagine anything else.
#Sad
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday October 27 2017, @12:55AM
Again you try and conflate rulership with economic systems. Sorry but no. They are not the same thing.
And tyranny of an individual or tyranny of the masses matters very little to those with the boot on their neck.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday October 22 2017, @12:48AM
I promised the great, great American people that I would stop the illegals. Building the Wall is a huge part of that. And I also promised to stop the green cards. President Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of foreign workers entering the United States, until our country's representatives can figure out WHAT THE HELL is going on. #MAGA 🇺🇸
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday October 21 2017, @08:16PM (1 child)
Long solved? Seems that you really think walls work. They don't. "Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." George S. Patton. See Berlin Wall, Iron Curtain, and Maginot Line. They have to be patrolled and maintained to be of any value whatsoever, and that takes a lot of manpower and resources. They are ridiculously easy to defeat by going over, under, around, or just blasting through them. The hard part of getting past the border is not the wall, it's the guards.
What is it about walls that you guys love so?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 24 2017, @12:58PM
What makes you think I was talking about the wall?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @04:59PM
Here is a great example of you speaking very confidently about something when you have zero proof. Just FYI, in many stores you'll see magazines with quite amazing stories. We call these tabloids, and they should not be taken seriously.
Also, the guy on infowars is also an admitted actor "playing a part". If you care to be taken seriously you need to back up your bullshit.
Yes I read your other responses in this thread, more bullshit.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday October 21 2017, @01:15PM (1 child)
Looking at the wall sections, I'm thinking I'm in the wrong business. $300 - 500,000 for a short section of wall like that? What is that, 100x labor and material costs?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by looorg on Saturday October 21 2017, @01:38PM
That is probably just prototype and R&D costs. The actual wall segments won't be $500k each. At least I don't think so. That would be insane even for the biggest ever gravy contract. But still there is probably a substantial markup from actual material and labor costs to whatever the segments will actually cost to manufacture and what they'll sell for.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @11:41PM
>I am a bit surprised that there doesn't seem to be more concertina- or barbed-wires or just more spikes and razors.
Don't blame me; I voted for Ted Cruz.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @02:28PM (1 child)
Or the flying burrito brothers!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21 2017, @03:14PM
Shaped charge burritos? I think I had some of those.