SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Securityweek has a look at the bits of HR1 with digital election security implications running:
The Democrat-controlled House of Representatives has unveiled its first Bill: HR1, dubbed the 'For the People Act'. It has little chance of getting through the Republican-controlled Congress, and even less chance of being signed into law by President Trump.
Nevertheless, HR1 lays down a marker for current Democrat intentions; and it is likely that some of the potentially bi-partisan elements could be spun out into separate bills with a greater chance of progress.
One of these is likely to include the section on election security. This has been a major issue since the meddling by Russian-state hackers in the 2016 presidential election, and the subsequent realization on how easy it would be for interested parties (both foreign hackers and local activists) to influence election outcomes.
I'm all for secure and accountable elections but the feds are going to need to be careful and deliberate in what they mandate vs. what they place conditions for funding on. They do have significant authority as far as election laws go but their power is more deep than broad; most specifics are legally up to the states. Just because something is a good idea doesn't mean they currently have the legal authority necessary to do it.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:13PM (31 children)
It's garbage unless it mandates photos taken when people vote.
Without photos, there is no way to tell if fraudulent voting even exists. We can and should assume that it is rampant, but we can't know. There is no possible way to prosecute most cases because we can't figure out who was voting. Undercover investigations have shown that poll workers are frequently uninterested in proper identity verification.
The polling station should also have a pre-existing photo when the voter shows up. The voter ID should be there when the voter arrives, ready to be looked up on a computer.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:18PM (16 children)
Yep, dispensaries do it. And I never understood why people are bitching about voterID in the first place. If it's so damn difficult for people to get ID's, then the government should be able to make it easier for people to get IDs.
We need strong voter ID laws, of course, to protect our elections from Russian Hacking. If we had strong voter ID laws during the 2016 election, then Hillary would have won because the Russians couldn't attack our voting process.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:25PM (8 children)
That might not seem hard to save up for given that ID is so useful, but consider an argument inspired by the marginal tax rate:
If you had one dollar to spend on food or on an ID card, which would be chosen by the poor?
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:22PM (6 children)
That's why I am proposing that we make those ID more easily available, even free, if necessary. The lack of revenue collected can always be collected elsewhere, even something bullshit like taxes on plastic bags or straws or something. And to further lock down the voting system we need to have a sanity-check on social-security numbers -- motherfuckers shouldn't be able to use the number of a dead person to get privileges they shouldn't otherwise have.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:33PM (4 children)
That the US Federal and US States generally don't require one to possess ID is due to the NAZI-era requirement that everyone carry IDs that declare their religion.
You do _not_ need to give your ID to a cop unless you're operating a motor vehicle, however if you refuse he has the right to detain you for 72 hours so as to establish you identity.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:48PM (3 children)
Nowadays we simply require every coder to declare a coding language, because every coding language is its own religion. If you can code in a dozen languages, then you are a heretic to all coding religions. If you express the opinion that coding language does not matter because any coder should be able to pick up new languages as needed, you are an unemployable blasphemer against the holy law of coding.
Fuck MDC
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 07 2019, @12:04AM (2 children)
Because I started a language-agnostic business.
You could end your self-imposed torment in a heartbeat were you to somehow Solve The Prima Donna Problem. To Wit:
Fuck MDC
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:28AM (1 child)
Languages I coded in today: C and Python.
"Oh no!" scream the millennial yeast infections. "C is a slow old man lang! Python is performant sexy hotness! You can't use a C code and a Python code together! That's like not compatible! How are you even a coder??!"
Languages I might code in tomorrow: Java JavaScript Perl Ruby.
"Dude!" shout the millennial dick weeds. "JavaScript is the shit! We code everything in Node bro! Come see our office that looks just like a frat dorm! What the fuck you mean you don't use Node.js. Are you sure you a coder?"
Hey MDC. I remember entrepreneurial assholes like you back when I was in college. Always bragging about how they started their own business. Always bragging about how much money they were going to make someday. Always their businesses had zero revenue. Always they had grandiose claims about how they were somehow successful anyway. Always zero revenue.
You are a fraudulent pretend businessman with a fraudulent pretend business.
Fuck MDC
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 07 2019, @06:52AM
Otherwise I wouldn't have persisted with this particular line of business.
How's that Mobile App coming? You're into Javascript so perhaps you're _already_ working on a Mobile Website.
Fuck MDC
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Friday January 11 2019, @11:38PM
This. The hurdles put in place to gain an ID are the biggest objection to the proposed ID laws.
This past year I was required to renew my driver's license. Simple thing, no big deal right? OK, my bad for procrastinating, but three weeks before I was due to renew I opened the envelope to discover that rather than the usual process of renewing online in a few minutes I was required to renew in person.
That annoyance was made worse by the fact I was supposed to bring actual mailed copies of bills or such (by my reading of the wording on the site), so I rushed to change my accounts, which have been handled paperless online for years, to have actual mailed bills (the clerk later said that's what it says but they accept printed copies of e-bills thanks for not having that info on the site). Fortunately I received the last of them a couple days prior to my appointment.
Worse than that though, I discovered that my birth certificate, which had been perfectly valid and accepted by all for nearly 60 years, was no longer considered valid since it was issued by a hospital. I had to apply to the state where I was born for a state certified birth certificate. That, which I also got just two days before the appointment, for two copies (extra was $10 so I said why not) plus expedited shipping ($12) cost $49 in total. Not to mention the website was extremely balky and I had to restart the process several times. When the "certified" copies arrived, there was not a thing on them that was not on my original hospital issued certificate, it looked like the info was simply copied by hand.
To compound things, my vehicle had crapped out the weekend before the appointment, which I discovered was no longer in the centrally located office due to flooding from the past fall's hurricane, nor was in in the temporary administration offices less than a half mile from home, but in some godforsaken near deserted shopping mall located much further away. Had I had to take the local buses, with their transfers and such, I would have had to spend a couple hours getting there and a couple hours getting back. A taxi would have cost me nearly $50 each way. Fortunately my boss lent me her car for the process. I work nights, so at least I didn't have to take a day off work.
If you consider all that, just imagine a minimum wage worker having to go through all that. They could be stymied financially at any of several points, not the least of which would be having to take an unpaid day off work.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:18AM
Also, keep in mind that in many states, drivers license and state id photos end up in FBI facial recognition databases. So, voter id basically mandates that you end up in these databases a lot of the time.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:28PM (5 children)
An image that will always haunted my mind is that of a lynched black man, hung from a tree with a sign around his neck that read "He Voted".
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:53PM (3 children)
I want to see MDC hanging from a tree with a noose around his neck and a sign reading "Soggy Con Man Advertised Fake Jobs."
Fuck MDC
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 07 2019, @12:05AM (2 children)
To solicit murder is a felony, to be specific, and in the case of such solicitations posted online I expect are the felony of cyberstalking as well.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:35AM (1 child)
Go write your suicide note on a sign and hang yourself from a tree.
Oh dear. Suicide would require you to show remorse for your actions, to wit, operating a fake job board. Confidence tricksters never feel remorse.
Fuck MDC
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 07 2019, @06:53AM
- You.
Not Soggy Jobs, rather your _own_ business.
Fuck MDC
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:04AM
They executed him because he voted as a convicted felon. (his being black is but a statistical curiosity)
(Score: 1, Troll) by fustakrakich on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:59PM
We need strong voter ID laws, of course, to protect our elections from Russian Hacking. If we had strong voter ID laws during the 2016 election, then Hillary would have won because the Russians couldn't attack our voting process.
Damn! We need a "Poe's Law" mod for you... I mean, that's funny shit, but it's sad that people actually believe it.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by meustrus on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:58PM (2 children)
And what exactly do you do about absentee ballots? You can't take a picture of the person filling those out. And before you suggest getting rid of them, consider that absentee ballots are the only way many deployed soldiers can vote at all, and that in many states, strict rules have led to dramatically reduced chances of soldiers receiving their ballots or having them counted in time or at all. Not to mention all the other reasons we have absentee ballots.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @02:01AM (1 child)
Suppose you are deployed to Irastan. The military designates a team to handle the problem for you. They take your picture, then package that up with your ballot and also transmit it back to the USA. The ballot is kept under armed guard by the voting team until escorted back to your state.
Suppose you are in the hospital. We send a suitable group of people to do as above. It might involve a notary public and a US marshal.
No, it isn't cheap, but absentee ballots should not be available for frivolous reasons.
Really though, I'm fine with a simple "NO". Untainted elections are too important to allow this hole.
(Score: 3, Informative) by redneckmother on Monday January 07 2019, @05:17AM
Suppose you are at home, and your polling place is 50 miles away, and your vehicle gets (at best) 15MPG. Also, suppose fuel costs $2.50 a gallon (it's actually a LOT more than hat in the boonies).
Additionally, suppose you and/or your significant other has health issues, and the 100 mile (round trip) drive is a serious imposition.
Absentee voting is a necessity for some of us.
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:16PM (4 children)
Why? There is no evidence that fraudulent voting does occur in anything but minuscule proportions. The biggest potential point of weakness in the system is in the counting of votes, not the actual voting. We should be ensuring that every qualified voter that tries to vote has their vote counted accurately. Then you can double down on checking each voter, if you still think there is a problem.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:40PM (2 children)
me: Without photos, there is no way to tell ... we can't know.
you: There is no evidence
Um, yeah, because we don't take photos and in some cases don't even ask for an ID. We aren't trying to collect evidence, and then you say there isn't any. Well of course!!! WTF. (goes to flip tables...)
FYI though: It is probable that a senate seat in New Hampshire was stolen in 2016 due to out-of-state people from Massachusetts voting in New Hampshire.
The counting problems, such as the blatant misbehavior in Broward County every election, don't have obvious fixes. There, witnesses have seen things like teams of people working to fill out unclaimed ballots. I suppose you could mandate that all ballot boxes be watched on uninterrupted streaming video, but that doesn't solve the problem of what to do when the video is interrupted or when it shows a bunch of ballots being destroyed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:47PM
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Friday January 11 2019, @10:44PM
No, it's not probable. Read the voting laws in the state, instead of propaganda blogs in the right wing echo chamber.
(Score: 1) by redneckmother on Monday January 07 2019, @06:15AM
Judging from the latest election cycle, "voter fraud" can't hold a candle to election fraud.
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:46PM (5 children)
I supervise a polling place. I watch you. And since I've been doing this for years, I probably know you. IOW, substitution fraud is unlikely.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @03:06AM (4 children)
City people knowing even a hundredth of the voters in their precinct? Best joke I've heard all day!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:30AM
I only have to remember people in my ward and district. That makes around 600. Yeah, I can do that.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday January 07 2019, @07:49AM (2 children)
I don't know about all metropolitan areas in this country, but I do live in a very populated area and I do know many of the poll workers in my precinct, and they know me. So I doubt that your post will hold much water.
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 07 2019, @01:07PM
Knowing you isn't amazing. You may be an outgoing, charismatic guy offline. Knowing every voter in their precinct would be beyond belief even in a small town though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by slinches on Monday January 07 2019, @07:19PM
I will counter your anecdote with one of my own. Polling places without voter ID verification systems are both slower and much less secure.
In my case, the poll workers have been different for every election I have voted in and the precinct is big enough that I rarely recognize any of the other voters there. Substitution fraud was trivially easy back when the only voter verification was a list of names, just sign next to a random one and go vote. Not only did that system lack any real security, it was slow too. After the new voter ID requirements were introduced in my state, they deployed an electronic voter verification system that allows same number of poll workers handle 3-4x the number of voters/hour. The new verification system consists of a group of kiosks where you scan your ID and then hand it to the poll worker standing behind them to verify that the picture matches the person standing there. It then tells the worker if you are in the correct polling place and which ballot to give you (our polling places often cover two or more school districts and/or local municipalities, requiring a handful of different ballot configurations). Prior presidential elections had hour plus long lines, this last one I was able to just walk straight up to the kiosk, swipe my ID and go vote. (Note: voting here is still done on paper ballots with an electronic scanner to provide unofficial vote totals)