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I suppose everyone knows that every politician, and every executive officer in the world feels the need to "do something" about Covid19.
We've been doing that social distancing thing since early in the game. Everyone has. Face masks, not so much.
Suddenly, our executive branch has decided that face masks are mandatory to even enter the plant. I went to the doctor's office immediately to get an excuse not to wear the mask. Doctor and I had an interesting discussion, in which she reiterated what I already know: masks are bad for healthy people.
Meanwhile, I talked to my co-workers, and told them all that if they didn't want to wear the masks, they needed to get a medical exemption. Everyone says, "I'm getting mine tomorrow morning!" Then it became, "I'm waiting to see what they do about you before I give them mine!" Bunch of no-balls assholes, this is why collective bargaining never works in the south.
So, I take my medical note to HR. Stupid broad lets me work without a mask - for one night. But she's talking on the phone to some bitch somewhere far away, and the second night, I'm barred from entering the plant. Talk, talk, talk, all around the country with people who all think that they're important.
Finally, it's decided that I need to wear a mask to get through the turnstile, and walk through the plant, to my shop. More, I'm being offered a half dozen different options for masks, as opposed to that silly gauze hanging off my ears. I'll test them all out, and see how they work.
BUT - most importantly, I don't have to wear the damned mask for eight, or ten, or twelve hours. Only when I'm face-to-face with someone. Otherwise, the stupid mask can be stuffed into my belt, or pocket, or whatever.
And, I got a near-admission that the masks are pretty meaningless. They do not stop the transmission of the common cold, flu, or Covid19. It's just a feel-good stopgap that shows everyone cares. And, it helps to mitigate any potential liability the company may face for keeping the plant in operation.
Funny thing about the masks I've already seen. There are no brand name tags, or instructions, or anything on them. The best thing I've seen yet, is just a tube, you pull over your head, and down around your neck. Single layer of some artificial fabric, stretchy, and very easy to breathe through. No hot air blowing back in your eyes, or whatever. Did EVERYONE in the boardrooms forget that it's summer now? It's far too damned hot to be breathing into some stupid bag of gauzey cotton or paper.
I got my point across pretty effectively though. If those assholes in the offices want me to wear a mask that interferes with breathing, they need to bring their fat asses into the factory, follow me around, and breathe through the same damned masks they want me to breathe through.
The message would have been far more effective, if all of my co-workers had followed through on their promises to bring doctor's excuses in on Monday, like I did. Assholes all need to grow a pair. They can talk a good story, but they have no real fight in them.
I promise that whatever mask I decide to carry around with me, it will almost never be over my face.
Tonight, we see what we see. Maybe they'll just get pissed off, and lay me off. I can lay around the house and collect unemployment for awhile!!
BTW - as an aside - I mentioned 8, or 10, or 12 hours above. Which explains why I've not been so active here on Soylent. Too many days and too many hours for me to spend much time on the internets. Nice paydays though!
I'll try to post back, and let you all know which mask works best for me.
And, yes, claustrophobia is a legitimate excuse not to wear some stupid rag over your face. There are others, but claustrophobia is about the easiest to "prove" to anyone's satisfaction.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:53AM (4 children)
Masks work [medicalxpress.com] as I've been telling people since February and here since March. [soylentnews.org] The CDC now admit aerosol is the primary mode of transmission but it was an obvious active mode of transmission to anyone looking at the early R numbers from China.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:36AM (3 children)
Don't be shy. Heap it on.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:51AM (2 children)
Quandary! Or a simple dilemma! Who to believe? China? Or a Solylent AC? Both have a long history of tenuous relations to the truth. One has sovereign immunity, the other is probably unvaccinated. And one voted for Trump, the other laid out a red carpet for him. Hmmm, I can't decide! Maybe listening to actual evidence-based scientific medicine is the way to go?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @12:28PM
Good luck finding any.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:55PM
Read the paper I linked above and the ballistic droplets paper linked from the second above link to a previous discussion. There's your evidence, if you disagree then prove it false or offer a valid criticism. [soylentnews.org] You don't have to be Poseidon to understand - even ancient astronomers can manage this one.
(Score: 4, Informative) by aristarchus on Friday June 12 2020, @03:08AM (14 children)
Happy dying, Runaway! Just try not to take anyone with you.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday June 12 2020, @03:14AM (7 children)
Happy living. Just hope that the protests have exposed you fuckheads.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @03:31AM (1 child)
Run over any protests recently?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @03:33AM
Just in his dreams. Thankfully, he's too chicken to actually do anything but mentally masturbate.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 12 2020, @06:59PM (2 children)
Protesting for haircuts last week: totally fine
Protesting against murder this week: think of the COVID!
Trump rallies next week: totally fine
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:12PM (1 child)
Seriously, I'm at the point where if someone tells me they are conservative/libertarian/republican they have to convince me they're not disingenuous racists. I know these people are not actual idiots completely lacking the mental tools required, but they choose to lie and cheat their way through everything. They have no morals that don't flip flop for convenience, and the vast majority of their ideology simply revolves around hatred, bigotry, and fear. They talk a lot about what they believe in and what they think is right, but they easily violate those beliefs for any number of reasons.
Trump said take the guns? Ehhhh whatever
Small government and constitutional rights? Ehhhh, not for peaceful protesters, we'll happily excuse that because of the criminal rioters which aren't the same people.
Abortion is murder! Ehhhh, but I really can't have a kid right now so for ME it is totally fine cause I need it and I'm not a bad person.
Fucking. Hypocrites.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:51AM
They're flailing this hard because they're losing and they know it.
All we have to do is keep it up....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:39AM
Siphylus, Gonnorea, Chalmydia, Herpes, Common Coronavirus, Enterocoacus, Guinea Worm, Replicating Redundant Republican syndrome, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Probable Human Immune Depressive Syndrome, and Dick cancer. Got you, Ethannol? The world will be a better place, with less bitching and fewer old fart stories, if the Runaway succumbs to his Republican tendencies. I, for one, will miss him. But not all that much.
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday June 15 2020, @02:53AM
Of course, it has only just begun, in Arkansas. Best of luck to all those poor people!
Arkansas is about to begin ‘what we did in New York’ with COVID-19 in hospitals: Harvard public health expert [rawstory.com]
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Friday June 12 2020, @03:30AM (3 children)
The masks only work to protect people around the wearer; wearing or not wearing one will have no effect on whether he gets sick, just on how easily he can pass it on if he catches it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:10AM (1 child)
Depends on the mask and how well he applies it. Simple cloth masks could stop large droplets, but yes they are considered very ineffective.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:44AM
Stopping large droplets, from the spittle spewing far right Fox viewers, is a complete health benefit for the rest of the population. If only we could sue Murdock for his Murderous News Channel!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:01PM
Not entirely accurate, they also offer a degree of protection to the wearer. A report to the hamster study is linked in the first post but it's because they are primarily effective at stopping the wearer potentially transmitting the virus to others that refusal to wear a mask is selfish.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 12 2020, @06:40PM (1 child)
Sort of interesting how Runaway and Ethanol fueled both returned to the site at the exact same time....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:46PM
"Always two there are; a hillbilly, and a San Diego redneck."
(Score: 2, Troll) by Mojibake Tengu on Friday June 12 2020, @03:20AM (16 children)
When a human society fails to provide fundamental assurances it is built upon, either technically by mismanagement or indirectly as effect of unexpected events, it replaces technical means by rituals.
It is so, because said failure is a perceptible marker of weakness of the particular social model, which shall not be admitted. Such admittance may cast doubts about correctness of the social model into the collective, and destabilize the society further by emerged decoherence. Thus, when a real technical solution to the problem becomes unreachable, a ritual serves as a simulacra of the missing technical process, in hope of keeping the social coherence just a bit longer.
Praying for dead souls, dancing for rain when drought and wearing face rags against virus epidemic have common factor: denial of helplessness.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @04:42AM
Bingo. Ritual has it's attraction. And, it fits perfectly into that whole "do something" attitude. Doing something has little if any effect, but it's the doing that counts. Ritual.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by khallow on Friday June 12 2020, @02:19PM (14 children)
In other words, when you can't fully count on other methods like social distancing, masks work. "The calculus may be different" in reality.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @03:10PM (12 children)
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-questions-the-effectiveness-of-masks-against-sars-cov-2 [medicalnewstoday.com]
Someone on Soylent stated weeks ago something to the effect, "No one knows what works, they're all guessing, and hoping they're right." For every "study" that this works, or that works, there is another similar "study" that says the first study was bullshit. The experts are reversing their advice, repeatedly. That goes for WHO, CDC, famous doctors, less famous doctors, officials, unofficials, and just plain ordinary citizens.
If you're looking for some bit of magic that will protect you and yours, just give it up. There is no magic.
I will point out, that the Democrats rejected the single bit of almost magical advice that is positively known to reduce the spread of communicable diseases. Quarantine was rejected early, rejected repeatedly, and rejected again. Had we shut down all the airports, seaports, and border ports of entry, and BUILT THE FUCKING WALL, when that fool Trump demanded it - we wouldn't have much if any Covid19 in this country.
But, quarantine was rejected as being racist or some such shit.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:07PM
Hikikomori here. That strategy worked for me. Covid19 has yet to enter my room.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:41PM (4 children)
Everyone knows that walls don't work! At most, they might keep some runaways from running away, but it is mostly symbolic, a ritual, if you will. Besides, most of the Covid19 came to the States from the White homeland, Europe, just like earlier the US was infested by Polacks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:38AM (3 children)
Zenophobia is only appropriate for those who are true Americans, those who can trace their lineage back thousands of years, still on this soil. Any fucking half-breed Polack who thinks working for a Foreign company in Arkansaws is being human, and then questions the decisions of his masters? Put that Polack down. Just, sell him down the River. Not that far to New Orleans, where he can, well, be unemployed as well as anywhere. Runaway, seriously, just die, already. We have doxxed you to your employer, and no one wants your brand of tacit racism attached to leaf blowers.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:52AM (2 children)
Why would anyone be afraid of Zeno [wikipedia.org]? Especially since he's been dead for 2,400 years or so.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:10PM (1 child)
Not true. In order to be dead, he would first have to die enough to cover half the distance to dead. Then from there he would have to die a bit more to cover half the remaining distance to dead. Then a bit more to cover half the remaining distance to dead. etc, etc.
As you can clearly see, Zeno will never reach dead, just approach it ever more closely.
(It's also how Ari stayed alive so long. Thieving bastard stole the method from Zeno.)
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday June 14 2020, @09:17PM
I'd have modded you funny but, alas, after travelling the 1/2+1/4+1/8+...+1/65536th of the path to the moderate button i grew tired.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @07:13PM (2 children)
If you read the actual study, that's not what they tested and they simply offer an unqualified statement. The masks do not have to filter viral particles, they have to reduce the velocity of the droplets to prevent them becoming aerosol. Humanity fully understands fluid dynamics and condensation, unfortunately, it appears the authors of that paper do not. Looking forward to their flat earth paper soon...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 12 2020, @08:14PM (1 child)
From the study:
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:07AM
To be safer, people should probably be aerosolizing their respiratory contents into their sleeves instead [youtube.com], with or without masks.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:15PM
Trump's travel restrictions were a half-assed measure that provided a false sense of security.
1) The travel restrictions on passengers arriving from China was incomplete. Almost 40,000 people entered the US on direct flights from China after the travel restrictions went into effect.
2) The bans neglected to restrict travel from other areas, something that Trump could have implemented. Most of the clusters in New York City were actually seeded by travelers who arrived from Europe. People traveled from China to Europe, spreading the virus there. Then people who were infected in Europe flew to the United States and spread the virus in eastern cities. This was entirely predictable, yet Trump waited far too long to implement travel restrictions.
3) When Trump finally restricted travel from Europe, his initial restrictions were to Schengen Area countries but did not include countries such as Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, the UK, and Ireland. Conveniently, Trump owns resorts in both the UK and Ireland and stood to benefit from not restricting travel to and from those countries. The ban was denounced at the time as ineffective because the virus was already spreading rapidly in the UK.
4) The restrictions on travel probably did delay the surge of infections in the US. However, at the time, scientists noted that the travel restrictions would be ineffective at preventing more infected travelers from entering the US. This should have been led to rapid action in February to develop the capabilities for large scale testing and contact tracing. That way, we could have been prepared when clusters of cases started to develop in March. Yet we squandered the roughly six weeks of time afforded to us by the travel restrictions while Trump directly spread misinformation stating that Americans were safe and that the situation was completely under control. Instead, the virus was already spreading undetected in some parts of the US because the travel restrictions were not entirely effective. There is very strong evidence that the virus had spread undetected for six weeks in Washington State, for example.
5) Building the wall would have virtually zero impact on limiting the spread of the virus, especially because border crossings were still occurring legally at much higher levels at legal ports of entry. I have seen zero evidence suggesting that the virus is spreading in any non-negligible manner because of illegal southern border crossings in areas without physical barriers.
Now, rather than be a decent human being and wear a mask to protect those around you, so you don't unknowingly spread the virus to them, you are instead being a selfish prick and throwing a crybaby temper tantrum. You're also lying and trying to push blame onto everyone else except Dear Leader Donald Trump. Why are you so unmanly that the prospect of wearing a mask on your face for short period of time is so difficult that you feel the need to throw a massive hissy fit about it? Grow some stones and stop being a triggered right wing snowflake.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 12 2020, @11:42PM
And yet, why are we to suppose that masks don't work? Confusion among experts tells us nothing. Instead I found the arguments for masks compelling - namely, that they catch most of the spray of aerosols that would spread covid and help keep people from touching vulnerable parts of their faces, enforcing other behaviors that help reduce the spread of covid.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday June 14 2020, @07:13AM
You're citing an article published in April, based on the data available then.
Let me tell you we're in the mid of June. This time of the year, even cloth masks are working fine. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:33PM
Masks do work. There are just a number of people here who are either misinformed or deliberately spreading misinformation.
1) There is evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is most transmissible when people have no symptoms or mild symptoms. As more serious symptoms develop, the virus becomes less transmissible. Everyone is asked to wear a mask because it reduces the chance of a person who has not yet developed symptoms from transmitting the virus. The virus is less about protecting you and more about protecting others. The importance is greater for SARS-CoV-2 because of the high rate of transmission by people who don't yet have symptoms, as opposed to the original SARS virus that was generally not transmitted until people had developed significant symptoms.
2) Although masks do not provide 100% protection, face coverings do reduce the amount of virus-carrying droplets that a person may inhale. It takes a certain amount of the virus in order for someone to become infected. If a person is exposed to the virus, but at a lower level, they won't become infected. Wearing a mask may keep viral exposures below the level needed to cause an infection.
3) Even if a person develops an infection, there is reason to think the amount of the virus a person is exposed to has an impact on the severity of the infection that results. Being exposed to a higher dose of the virus may lead to a worse infection. Wearing a mask can keep the exposure level relatively low, which may result in a less severe case. Perhaps that means a person develops an upper respiratory infection instead of the virus attacking the lower respiratory system and other parts of the body.
The primary reason someone like Runaway is required to wear a mask is the first point I made, which is to protect others. Although masks provide imperfect protection, they are a useful tool in preventing infection and reducing the occurrence of serious infection.
There is some preliminary evidence that early vaccines won't provide complete protection against SARS-CoV-2, either. However, the vaccines may still be useful because a person may have high viral loads in their respiratory system but being vaccinated will protect the person from having the virus spread to the lower respiratory system and beyond. Again, it's imperfect protection, but probably still useful to prevent serious complications that force people to be hospitalized and possibly result in death. Although a vaccine might provide only partial protection, it would still be worthwhile to be vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @04:03AM
libcom.org has an organising toolkit [libcom.org] that sounds relevant to your interests.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @04:41AM (1 child)
Well, as promised, there are several masks lying on my toolbox, for me to play with. Most were apparently bought in bulk, and pulled out of boxes, put into sandwich size zip bags, so I can't say what brands or styles they are. The exception is on a card, with lots of print on it:
Buff brand, coolnet UV+ multifunctional headwear
In my estimation, it ranks second among the stuff I've been given. Take a nice deep breath, and let it out, it feels almost 100% natural. Exhaling is deflected back onto your face, just a little bit. The labeling says it has a cooling effect, and moisture management - maybe wetting it works like those cooling rags that cool you with evaporation? I'll find out.
The other tube-like thingy that is ever so slightly better, has no branding on it.
Both of these are nice, in that, you can pull them down off your face, and they just do their stretchy thing around your neck.
All the other offerings just suck. Breathing feels very unnatural with any of them on.
Ehhh, got things to do, gotta get to it! Later . . .
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @11:04PM
Didn't your team of psychiatrists write an medical excuse?
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday June 12 2020, @10:58AM (8 children)
for example, around here you'd use this:
https://www.friulpoint.it/prodotto/mascherina-protettiva-lavabile-doppio-strato-aquila-friuli-vuere/ [friulpoint.it]
The symbol is of our medieval catholic theocracy years 1000-1400 which is still in the heart of people here, which means it was probably better than the following venetian, napoleonic, austrian and italian domination. The correct background would be light blue, this one is red to mimic the different, but not very recognizeble, war flag which had a vermillion background. So historically it is a fake, but semantically is quite clear.
Here (covid gone, and contagion not an ER issue because the hospital ignored national protocols as soon as they verified that ozone therapy worked while national protocols based on ventilators killed) you had to wear the mask except when running or cycling, now it's optional unless you have to stand at less than 1mt from people. Plexiglass barriers are ubiquitous. You don't stop a nanosized virus, you just flatten the curve. Breathing in the mask of yesterday is bad, but OTOH you get less pollution particles and keep the body defences occupied in the brave new anti covid sterilized world. Personally mask gave me no issues but I weared it around 1hr/day.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday June 12 2020, @12:55PM (7 children)
[citation needed] for ozone therapy working, please. In detail.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @03:19PM (1 child)
It's the symbol printed onto the mask that works. If it were printed onto a bridal veil, and worn in the same manner, it would be just as effective. ;^)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:32AM
The bride in war flag is eerily prophetic, as weddings go these days.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @10:00PM (2 children)
Ozone seems to be effective for sterilizing used face masks [medrxiv.org] and may be useful for disinfecting rooms under specific carefully restricted conditions [army.mil]. However, ozone is most certainly not something that can be used to cure a person who has been infected, nor should it be used for preventing the virus outside of the aforementioned situations.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @07:17AM
Meh, for this case, there are the bleach injection and shining UV lasers on the insides of the person. MAGA!
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday June 14 2020, @09:22PM
those who say a thing is impossible should not interrupt those doing it.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:27AM (1 child)
https://www.repubblica.it/salute/medicina-e-ricerca/2020/04/06/news/coronavirus_l_ozonoterapia_evita_la_terapia_intensiva-253290022/ [repubblica.it]
note, repubblica.it is the most leftist-progressive-elitist-atheist mainstream newspaper in Italy.
Details are emerging that the OMS guidelines, which put performing autopsies outside the protocol, actually prevented exploring cures. Which is not surprising given the push for vaccination, at least for conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy denialists have bigger problems than trying to make sense of OMS.
But hey, in the end it's your health, do what you think is safer.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:35AM
I'd add to my comment that I forgot to sign, that succesful treatments here often involve plasma from recovered patients.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Informative) by acid andy on Friday June 12 2020, @01:05PM (67 children)
Why are you only thinking about your own health? The main intended function of these masks is to guard the health of others. Do you give a shit about others, Runaway?
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 12 2020, @01:59PM (64 children)
Pretty much nobody of working age is in any significant danger from coronaids and even wearing a 100% effective mask does not help nearly so much as herd immunity would. So, hey, turns out the mask wearing folks are the ones who don't give a shit about anyone else.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by acid andy on Friday June 12 2020, @02:45PM (31 children)
There are so many things wrong with what you just said that I'm not even going to try to address them all. They've been covered elsewhere, many, many times.
Ah, what the hell--
I'd say we're probably talking in the region of a one in a hundred to one in a thousand chance of death, if infected. You may consider those acceptable odds, but many other people don't. Why should you have the right to expose them to this pathogen?
Furthermore, we probably won't know for years whether the virus will shorten the lifespan of a much larger proportion of the infected, so for now the best advice is to play it safe.
OK..... Next you'll be telling me you're off to a coronavirus party!
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @02:58PM (15 children)
Some. I care enough about others that I literally put my hand in the fire, and held it there, for a couple of strange kids that I never met before. Ask me for the entire story, and I'll write it out.
I don't care enough about a bunch of people, strangers or not, that I'll put myself to eternal inconvenience for them.
You do realize, that we all got dealt a hand in life, and we play that hand to the best of our abilities. Some of us get extremely short lifetimes. Little children die every day in the various Children's Hospitals and such around the nation. Every day. Other old bastards just keep hanging on, long after their natural lives have ended. (Can you say "Ruth Bader Ginsberg" and "Nancy Pelosi"?) So, what would you have me do? Self flagellate over all those little kids who got dealt super sucky hands in life?
Once again - the flu kills a MINIMUM of one million people per year on our planet. I kinda keep watching - Covid19 isn't near a million yet, is it? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-update-global-death-toll-passes-412000-as-dr-fauci-warns-that-covid-19-is-far-from-over-2020-06-10 [marketwatch.com] Hmmmmm - approaching half a million.
Do YOU wear a stupid mask to prevent those around you from catching the flu every year? No? Well, obviously, you don't care about people!!
As I told HR a couple days ago - fear drives this nonsense. It's past time that everyone involved grew a pair. Grow a pair of whichever bits of anatomy you prefer, but grow a pair.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday June 12 2020, @03:49PM (4 children)
From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], with its own citation:
COVID's currently at around 400,000 deaths and we're only halfway through the year.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @04:26PM (2 children)
The CDC doesn't track global trends, really. They kinda sorta accept numbers from sources they like, unless there happens to be a pandemic. The numbers are questionable.
On the other hand, I'm having trouble finding support for my own claim of a million per year. When I discovered that figure, I was doing some research into the 2017 flu season, but I can't reproduce that search trail this morning. You may however, be interested in some "fuzzy math". CDC only accepts numbers from wealthier nations, that meet certain documentation criteria. Wealthier nations admit to as many as .6 million fatalities per year. Add in all those other less wealthy nations, with lesser quality health care? Uh-huh.
Seems my estimates are at least as good as the CDC's estimates, don't you think?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:56PM
From where did you get your MD? And your Phd in Public Health?
What? Don't have either? In that case, I'd say that CDC's estimates are likely *much* better than yours.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:26PM
It's going to be interesting to look back on the statistics in a few years when the numbers have settled.
Did Covid19 mostly kill people who would have died of the flu?
Should you offset the Covid19 death count by the reduction in flu deaths?
Was there a reduction in other transmissible diseases such that the panic over Covid19 resulted in a lower total mortality?
Is there any chance that Covid19 countermeasures are actually going to wipe out some other diseases (eg some common colds) with a lower R?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:45PM
Runaway, never had much education, real bad with numbers. Remember the whole "Population of China" episode? Basically, Runaway is a moran.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 12 2020, @04:12PM (5 children)
What part of "far from over" do you not understand? The world is at 412K+ deaths with lockdowns and other mitigating strategies. And we're only halfway through 2020, give it time - we'll get there.
Flu does not kill "1 million minimum". Estimates for annual flu deaths worldwide range between 290K and 650K. Not small numbers, but COVID-19 is going to blow by that easy.
And why the fuck wouldn't you be at least a little afraid of something capable of killing you? Something like that at least requires respect and caution, does it not?
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 12 2020, @04:31PM (3 children)
New Zealand has the answer to Covid. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/how-new-zealand-brought-new-coronavirus-cases-down-to-zero.html [cnbc.com]
Close the borders. Period. Quarantine the nation. Nothing in, nothing out. But, politics, right?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @04:54PM
BTW, Latvia had done the same: closed the borders to non-Latvians, about the same date. And introduced social distancing. Unlike NZ, no lockdown (those arriving from abroad were isolated at home for 2 weeks; those tested COVID-positive, isolated at home if no/easy symptoms, hospitalized if serious). No mandatory masks, too. Still, it worked nearly as good as in NZ (while incomparably less onerous for everyone).
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 12 2020, @06:56PM
I completely 100% agree with needing to close borders. Unfortunately, we didn't do that. Now the horses have left the barn, far too late to close the barn door.
Instead of closing borders, the orange asshole banned Chinese nationals only. Completely useless.
Now New Zealand has a far, far easier time closing it's borders than the US does, but we didn't even try. We spent two months in denial for the sake of Wall Street.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday June 14 2020, @09:57PM
A lot easier for an Island nation to shut its borders then most countries. Here, we've mostly got it under control but there's people illegally crossing the southern border and then bragging about it. Possibly your friends, though they were Texans, they seem to have the same attitude of fuck others, I'm doing what I want, including lying to cross into another country.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:18PM
we would easily get 50 million in an year. Still, the deaths where that virus is the cause are only a tiny percent of that huge warty total.
To be counted as dead from flu, you need the orthomyxovirus to be the cause of your demise. To be counted as dead with COVID, you need the coronavirus to be present in you at the time of your demise (if even that). The two numbers are totally incomparable; apples and applecarts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @03:59AM (2 children)
You do realize that the quoted flu death numbers are estimates based on models, right?
See here Disease Burden of Influenza [cdc.gov]:
Or here: Comparing COVID-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is like Comparing Apples to Oranges [scientificamerican.com]?
As I type this, the Hopkins tracker says there have been 115,436 deaths in the US. So, in the course of about three and a half months (March to now) this virus has killed somewhere between seven and thirty three times as many people, in 3.5 months, as a flu kills in an entire year
This crap is not like the flu.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 14 2020, @07:17AM (1 child)
This crap is "like the flu" in that, a population first exposed to it sees a lot of fatalities. Remember the devastation caused in the "New World", as a result of some Spaniards stepping ashore? Measles, mumps, polio, the flu, many common colds, smallpox, chickenpox, and so much more that the Euros had been dealing with since prehistory - and the Native Americans had zero immunity or tolerance for.
Covid may take a large toll in the first year, another large toll in the second year, but give it a decade or so, and it will be just another seasonal illness.
Mankind isn't facing extinction as a result of the China virus.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @02:25PM
Yes, but do you want to be one of those fatalities?
Do you want your wife, brother, sister, parents, grandparents being one of those fatalities?
That's the point of the masks and other actions, to try to reduce the size of the set of fatalities to something much smaller than if it was just allowed to run through the population as fast as it can.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @07:21AM
Which hand Runaway used to intellectually masturbate.
Probably by sticking a finger in his nose deep enough to stimulate the ganglion acting as his brain.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @03:09PM (2 children)
You have no right to demand that others harm themselves to pander to your fear.
As to your misinformed appeal to "chances", go look up the total mortality by age group and compare it to the preceding years.
Hint: the chance to die while carrying the new fashionable virus does not equal the chance to die from said virus.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday June 12 2020, @03:25PM (1 child)
I couldn't find stats by year including 2020. Where did you get yours? Don't forget we're only halfway through this year so you'd need to approximately double any running total.
If the mortality rate has indeed dropped this year, I'd suggest people staying at home for lockdowns rather than traveling in vehicles and interacting with other people could have lowered it. In the longer term it can have the opposite effect as people defer treatment for other ailments.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @04:36PM
Granted, discovering such information is a chore these days, but nevertheless, some hard data are already out there. At least Italy has already posted the detailed statistics that includes March and April 2020:
https://public.tableau.com/views/Mortalit_15858412215300/Mortalit?:display_count=y&publish=yes&:origin=viz_share_link&:showVizHome=no [tableau.com]
Choose any location, leave checked only the age classes "0-14 anni" and "15-64", look at the graphs.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:47PM (11 children)
For the same reason you have the right to fuck someone without telling them you have proper aids rather than coronaids.
No, herd immunity only works if most folks aren't panicky idiots. I'm not wearing a mask though and anyone who dislikes it can fuck right off.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday June 13 2020, @03:57PM (6 children)
Bravo, good trolling Buzzard!
...unless of course you were being serious, then God help us all!
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 13 2020, @04:43PM (5 children)
Not trolling. I refuse to participate in manufactured panic.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:44PM (4 children)
Truly the stupidest fool around. Obviously you're sucking on the conservative conspiracy bait. It is interesting how the one thing you believe is kooky craziness is the one trying to save lives.
Conservative narcissism always seems to always enhance death in the selfish pursuit of money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @10:24PM
TMB filters through tobacco! That either makes him immune, or very, very stupid. But it begs for the question to be raised, "Can you accidently troll?"
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday June 14 2020, @03:39AM (2 children)
You reckon I should be shaking in my boots that I'll catch something less likely to kill me than the flu that I ignore every year? Or maybe you think I should be helping the government and media ensure we don't acquire herd immunity to it, which would essentially end the virus? Pass to both, thanks. You can be a moronic sheep if you like, I have better things to do.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @02:33PM (1 child)
Wow, TMB's Fox news handlers have gotten him programmed good there.
Small tip, Fox news is lying to you exactly the same as CNN is lying to all the anti-trumpers that consume only CNN content. The only difference is Fox is telling you a different set of lies from CNN's lies to keep you worked up enough to continue watching, thereby contributing to their advertising revenue.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 15 2020, @09:26AM
You think I'm a Trump fan, a Republican, and/or Watch any sort of television news? You must be new here.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday June 14 2020, @10:09PM (3 children)
Around here, fucking someone without telling them you have aids (assuming you know or have a suspicion) is considered assault, actually sexual assault and is good for a few years in prison.
Basically you're saying you should be free to assault people.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 15 2020, @09:28AM (2 children)
And yet it's perfect legal in California to knowingly, even intentionally, infect someone. My snark is simply multi-faceted.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday June 16 2020, @01:27AM (1 child)
Which just says something about your country, namely too many people feel that their right to swing their fist includes swinging it through someone's face.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 16 2020, @12:46PM
Nah, it's a certain group of folks that feel that anything society as a whole stigmatizes must be good and therefore protected. Most of them live in California.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 12 2020, @03:14PM (29 children)
I figure you're just shitposting here, but I'll bite.
1. The young and healthy are also dying from the virus. It is killing the old and infirm at a much higher rate, but the young aren't in the clear.
2. Who the fuck wants to be sick with this crap for 2+ weeks? I don't want to catch it anymore than I want to catch any other cold or flu.
3. Yes, herd immunity is best, but we don't have herd immunity. Wearing masks is a simple way to reduce exposure. Maybe it's only 20-30% effective, but I'll take that over 0%.
4. Getting herd immunity without killing 1 million+ Americans is going to take some time.
I realize you personally don't give a shit about others, but some of us do. Those of us that give a shit don't want to see 1 million+ Americans die from COVID-19. 116K and counting is bad enough.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @04:41PM (8 children)
Where? Hard data please, not handwaving and journalism.
Nobody forced you to say "dying from the virus" so no, the "died with COVID" stats do not qualify. Go and find the proper info, or shut up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:12PM (3 children)
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/06/11/maqu-j11.html [wsws.org]
I'm sure people officially saying that maquiladora workers are dying won't convince you though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:23PM (2 children)
Note that the term for "World Socialist Web Site Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)" is "propaganda vehicle", not "data source".
What part of "no handwaving and journalism" is too many syllables for you to comprehend?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @05:50PM (1 child)
More reliable than Fox News and the Murdock empire, who intentionally lie for political effect. Viz., Runaway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @06:27PM
For puppies and kittens? Or maybe they lie instinctively, not intentionally?
In any case, the inverse of a lie is not an inverse lie. It is HARD DATA. Go and find it, and be enlightened.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday June 12 2020, @07:10PM (1 child)
Plenty of stories out there about the young and healthy ending up dead after contracting COVID-19. They are admittedly rare (I did say the old die far more often), but it does happen.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex [cdc.gov]
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @12:49AM
Now it can be noted that the deaths really attributable to COVID, the "Deaths involving COVID-19 and Pneumonia, excluding Influenza" group, are only about twice the ones attributable to flu (the "All Deaths involving Influenza, with or without COVID-19 or Pneumonia") for the ages 25-44, and actually *less* than the ones from flu for the ages under 25. For 45-64 we see four times the flu, and so on, up to near ten times for 85+ age group.
Note that in any age group, the pneumonias with COVID are less than a third of the "Deaths involving Pneumonia, with or without COVID-19, excluding Influenza deaths" column. I.e. mundane bacterial pneumonias are a much greater danger still.
Nevertheless, returning to the original statement in question, I hate to say that those data, interesting and useful as they are, cannot support the original statement that "The young and healthy are also dying from the virus"; given that nowhere in them is any information on preexisting conditions.
Despite that, thanks again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:47PM (1 child)
Here you go. [nyc.gov]
And you're welcome.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @01:00AM
When the original statement was:
and your data source is stating:
you should have noticed the absence of logical connection between the one and the other.
If you didn't, let me spell it for you: nowhere does the source say "healthy" (i.e. has nothing about preexisting conditions) and nowhere does it say "from the virus" ("had laboratory-confirmed COVID-19" is not it).
Thanks for the data source anyway.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 12 2020, @08:18PM (3 children)
Nearly all who recovered from COVID-19 have health issues months later [nltimes.nl]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @09:46PM
It's not entirely clear to me that the 1,600 people in the same fully represent the range of coronavirus cases. In that sample, 43% hadn't been tested. At least in the US, it's likely that 85-90% of people with the virus aren't being tested. Many of those cases are mild or don't develop symptoms. It's not clear to what extent those people have long-term complications, but that group would seem to be underrepresented in this study. Many people who weren't hospitalized were still quite sick while at home. For example, I don't believe Chris Cuomo was ever hospitalized, but he was quite ill while isolated in his basement, and does have longer-term complications. None of this should downplay the long-lasting complications from those who have been infected, because it is a large proportion of those people, no matter what.
Herd immunity probably isn't a good strategy for awhile. There's a good chance that early vaccines will only provide partial protection, meaning that you still get infected but don't develop more severe complications. If the vaccine is effective at preventing the long-term complications and severe infections, then the consequences of a large portion of the population becoming infected wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. But we need a working vaccine and also to show that the vaccine is effective in this manner, even if not providing full protection. It's too early to know when such a vaccine will be available, but the timelines so far are very speculative and make assumptions about the success of trails for which we won't know the results for months. There are enough vaccines in trails that I suspect at least one will be safe and effective, but the pace of development and testing is unprecedented and we just don't know how soon a vaccine will be available to the public.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday June 13 2020, @05:51AM
Thanks for posting this. It adds a little more support (after the Hong Kong Hospital Authority findings [scmp.com]) to my existing strategy of treating this virus with serious caution until larger and longer term studies are published about the long term health effects.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 14 2020, @07:25AM
This just in: Virtually all people known to have had a common cold, report health issues months or years later.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday June 13 2020, @02:55PM (15 children)
1) The young and healthy also die from the flu, with a higher likelihood even, but nobody gives a fuck about flu season.
2) If it means I don't have to think about that shit again for at least another year? Bring it.
3) And we never will as long as motherfuckers are panicking and hiding from it.
4) You seem to be under the impression that there is a way to keep you from getting it. There isn't. You're going to get it. It's entirely too contagious to ever get rid of it and you can't hide from it perfectly; one infected person will start it all right back up. The death toll is predetermined. You can either get done with this bullshit quickly or you can be a panicky moron and drag it out at the steep expense to the economy and your future financial security and standard of living.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @08:19PM (3 children)
Well put. Looking at Sweden, a Western country that 1) comparatively minimally affected its population due to the panic and 2) hasn't got a history of lying about their stats, on the order of 5000 people died from SARS v2 this year, while on the order of 90000 people die there of all causes every year.
You Chicken Littles destroyed the economy for that?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @09:58PM (2 children)
Now you see why safety nets are so damned important. A health crisis comes along and many countries have been unable to mount effective responses, and their economies are being harmed because there are no systems or policies in place to protect the people and the economy.
As for Sweden:
"Sweden will adjust a key corner of its strategy for dealing with Covid-19, after the death rate at care homes spiraled out of control."
"Sweden’s approach to handling the coronavirus pandemic has become a topic of international debate after it opted for a much laxer lockdown, and instead relied on its citizens to follow social distancing guidelines."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-infection-rate-drops-in-denmark-after-lockdown-relaxed [bloomberg.com]
So they've had their own problems, and they trusted their population to actually follow the safety guidelines. As we have seen the US has a bunch of fucking idiots who defiantly and proudly refuse to follow the simple precautions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @11:46PM (1 child)
On the one side, you have Swedes without restrictions to their civil rights going out to visit a cafe in town.
On the other side, you have Americans under orders from their Governor to stay at home, while businesses are put at risk of their operating licenses, defying the "simple precautions" to proudly protest for a loosening of their chains.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14 2020, @03:20PM
Right, I forgot. Only times of killing other humans gets conservatives on board with compulsory societal.action.
Death cultist douche bag.
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday June 14 2020, @10:17PM (3 children)
Wonder why there is so much of a push for everyone to get flu vaccinations every year and make them free at most pharmacies and ban the none vaccinated from certain high risk jobs if no one gives a shit?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday June 15 2020, @09:32AM (2 children)
By whom? Everyone I know, including several folks directly in healthcare, are entirely "meh" about flu vaccination, even for themselves. If you want to panic over something Robotussin and a few sick days will fix, that's on you. Don't paint the rest of the nation with your cowardly hue though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday June 16 2020, @01:23AM (1 child)
I'm in a different nation and the government definitely wants to minimize flu cases.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 16 2020, @12:47PM
Ahh, fair nuff. Here we just don't worry about it unless we're in an extremely high risk group.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by cmdrklarg on Monday June 15 2020, @09:20PM (6 children)
1. We absolutely do give a shit about flu season, this is why they have free flu vaccine shot drives every year.
2. That's the problem, we don't know that. Nevermind any lasting effects from it, for which there is evidence.
3. Ah, so the only way to get herd immunity is to throw open the gates and let 'er rip! Please tell me you're not that stupid.
4. The death toll is not predetermined. The goal is to not overload our medical system. Overloaded medical system means more death. The goal is to give science time to figure this bug out. More time studying this thing finds better treatments, better outcomes, less death.
Getting it done quickly kills more people. Our "house of cards" economy was already fucked when it became apparent that we had a pandemic on our hands. We're doubly fucked with people like you acting like it's nothing to worry about.
You think you're right, but you're not an infectious disease expert; you're just some old computer geek that likes to think he's a libertarian. I'll take advice from you about IT and fishing, but not how to handle a pandemic.
Should we panic? No. Should we take steps to reduce the transmissability of this thing until we have a vaccine and better treatment methods? Absolutely. I plan to keep doing what I'm doing. Avoiding people as much as possible (I did that before the pandemic), washing my hands, wearing a mask when out around others. It's not that hard, nor is it "hiding in fear". If I get it I get it. If I happen to die from it, so be it. I'm just going to do my best to not infect and kill another person.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 16 2020, @01:01PM (5 children)
1) We have that because it makes the small minority of paranoid nutters happy and it makes the healthcare industry look like they're being charitable.
2) Yes, we do. We've even run a story on it on this very site.
3) How do you think you get herd immunity? Because dragging shit out so that the immunity in folks who got it early has run out is the exact opposite of how you get it.
4) Give them years of killing the economy for everyone? Because that's how long a viable vaccine takes to get to market safely. Even if that were possible, and it's not, my answer would still be an emphatic: Fuck That.
You don't need to be an infectious disease expert to understand the extremely basic shit we're talking about. You just need to stop listening to what your handlers tell you and use your own brain for a change. Hospitals aren't even close to being overwhelmed and have never been since this nonsense started in the US. If you understood fuck-all about the reasoning behind and meaning of "flattening the curve", you'd understand that when you've peaked, you have to start rolling back the steps you took early on. Keeping them in place makes shit worse not better. For both the impact of the disease and the economic woes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday June 16 2020, @03:42PM (4 children)
My response to your response is this: You are not an infectious disease expert. Why the fuck would I listen to you about this? What possible logical conclusion would lead me to take your advice over that of infectious disease expert?
When I want plumbing work done, I'll go talk to a plumber.
If I need electric done I'll talk to an electrician.
When I'm looking for medical information I should accept what some IT guy on the Internet has to say? I say an emphatic Fuck That. No, I think I'll listen to medical professionals. I didn't take advice from a Playboy model about vaccinating my child, and I'm not going to take advice from you about SARS-COV-2.
I am using my brain, and it's telling me to not agree with you. I want less people to die. You want to sacrifice people for the sake of the economy, which is unacceptable to me.
You're the one spewing nonsense here. Hospitals didn't overflow because we locked down (a few did in the worst hit places like NYC and Detroit). And newsflash genius: the US has been rolling back the lockdowns, and we're seeing greater instances of infection as a result. Imagine that!
Don't worry, you'll get your wish for more dead people. Too bad the sacrifices won't bring the economy back.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 16 2020, @03:54PM (3 children)
You're not listening to "infectious disease experts". You're listening to people with an arguable claim to that moniker that have been cherry picked by the people controlling the narrative.
You're not going to get that. Until we hit past capacity of treatment (which we're not even close to, have never been, and will never be) the death toll is a fixed value.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:20PM (2 children)
You have no fucking clue who I'm listening to. It certainly isn't you, since you have zero credibility on this topic. Handwaving it away with "controlling the narrative" doesn't help your case. I find that I agree with you on a lot of things, but this isn't one of them. I don't take things from anyone at face value; I want evidence and facts. Anything that doesn't give me that I find to be suspect, and what you're telling me is exactly that.
I have no idea where you get the "fixed death toll" idea. The more we learn about the virus the better we are able to treat it. Delaying getting infected means we have more knowledge with which to treat it. How many of the ones who died early on could have survived with knowledge we have now? How many more will survive six months from now with better knowledge? How many more will live once we have a vaccine?
But I get it. Somehow you think the economy will magically improve if we just ignore the virus and let it burn through. Perfectly logical for someone who doesn't care about others.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday June 17 2020, @05:43PM (1 child)
You think a global economic crash that pushes everyone (further) down the quality of life scale will make for a higher survival rate than a less than one percent fatality rate over the span of a year, do you? You think denying us herd immunity by dragging things out so long that those who've acquired immunity lose it and get a second and third go at the disease, just in case they weren't satisfied with their initial survival the first go round, is a good thing or will lead to lower fatality rates? Yeah, no. Listen to your "experts" if you like. They've been dead wrong the whole way and are being so still but don't let that stop you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Thursday June 18 2020, @09:09PM
The global economy was going to crash regardless of whether or not we put in mitigating strategies like lockdowns, social distancing, masks, etc. When there is an illness making the rounds that can kill you, most people are going stop doing what they would normally do, which definitely impacts the economy. Fear of death will do that, yes?
You do realize that 1% of the US population is over 3 million people? You don't think 3 million extra deaths from a single source would not affect the economy? 120,000+ so far is bad enough.
History proves you wrong. Look at info about the 1918 Spanish Flu. Look at what different cities of the time did differently, and the effects on death rates they had, and the effects on economic recovery. Mitigating strategies improved economic recovery.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/pedrodacosta/2020/04/03/pandemic-economics-lessons-from-the-spanish-flu-in-1918/ [forbes.com]
But I'm sure that Forbes isn't on your list of sources (do you even have sources?) so you will dismiss it with a wave of your hand. Feel free to not learn from history, and carry on with being doomed to repeat it.
I'm done with this topic here... feel free to reply, I won't be.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DannyB on Friday June 12 2020, @06:38PM (1 child)
Being on the older end of working age, and still working. I would be in the group more likely to have a very bad if not fatal outcome from covid-19. Now despite my paranoia and care, if that were to happen, I won't be one of the people coming back to SN to complain about it. (Not that I want to harm myself or anyone else.)
I also am surprised (/sarc) that in places where they have "opened up" and don't require face masks, that a couple weeks later their case numbers go way up. Who would have thought this could happen when there is a communicable disease going around!?!
If you have trouble obtaining a mask, there are several ways to improvise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QethnSkfTJw [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlxvg69bCyU [youtube.com]
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @08:44PM
Testing of various materials/construction have shown that not all homemade masks are created equal [arstechnica.com].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 12 2020, @02:07PM (1 child)
The more "the others" whine, the less regard you get. It is against instinct and logic to follow the wants of annoying pests.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 13 2020, @05:38AM
"The more "the others" whine, the less regard you get. It is against instinct and logic to follow the wants of annoying pests."
Interesting. I just wonder when self awareness is going to kick in for this one.