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posted by martyb on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:13PM   Printer-friendly
from the innovate-or-die dept.

Ian Bicking has confirmed that Mozilla has quietly shut down Mozilla Labs.

This development raises some interesting questions about the future of Mozilla and their products:

With Firefox's usage declining, with Firefox on Android seeing limited uptake, with Firefox not being available on iOS, with Thunderbird stagnating, with SeaMonkey remaining as irrelevant as ever, with Firefox OS suffering from poor reviews and little adoption, and now with a reduction in innovation due to the closure of Mozilla Labs, does Mozilla have any hope of remaining relevant as time goes on?

Will Mozilla be able to reignite the spark that originally allowed them to create products like Firefox and Thunderbird that were, at one time, wildly popular and innovative?

Is Mozilla still capable of innovating without Mozilla Labs, or will they slowly fade into irrelevance as the last remaining users of their products move on to other offerings from competitors?

 
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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by chris.alex.thomas on Saturday September 20 2014, @10:41PM

    by chris.alex.thomas (2331) on Saturday September 20 2014, @10:41PM (#96024)

    you've got it the wrong way around, hounding bigots because they are bigoted, does not make you a bigot, there are some views which are better than others, not all views are equal.

    equal rights for marriage is a better view than declaring gay marriage an abomination, you can't call me bigoted because I refuse to accept that you're a homophobe and won't accept your views when you're using those views to harass and intimidate people who are doing nothing wrong.

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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by tftp on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:05PM

    by tftp (806) on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:05PM (#96036) Homepage

    there are some views which are better than others

    Great news! Could you please publish the complete list of allowed political positions in this country? (Of course, in this democracy one is free to hold a different view, but then he will be fired, shamed, and otherwise destroyed.)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @03:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @03:30AM (#96133)
      So... you don't believe in equality and freedom. Good to know.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @12:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @12:21PM (#96272)

        No, he does believe in such things. You are the one who does not.

        Equality means that one can express pro-homosexual sentiment as freely and without repercussion as somebody can express anti-homosexual sentiment. Harming people who express anti-homosexual ideas by, say, taking away their jobs is blatant inequality. It's just as bad as forcing somebody from his or her job because he or she is homosexual.

        It works the same way for freedom.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:46PM (#96363)
          Except it wasn't his beliefs that got him in trouble, it was his actions. You supported my point, thank you.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @08:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 21 2014, @08:42AM (#96209)

      Make sure the list includes any potential FUTURE positions that may change.

      You wouldn't want to make a donation to a cause that might someday become unfashionable, would you?

      Orwell had it right, except he thought it would be the RIGHT wingers that were the authoritarian jackbooted double-speakers.

    • (Score: 1) by chris.alex.thomas on Sunday September 21 2014, @10:26AM

      by chris.alex.thomas (2331) on Sunday September 21 2014, @10:26AM (#96231)

      the list is quiet easy, but I'm shocked that I have to tell you how it works.

      1) anything that expands the rights of people to live peacefully and in the way that they desire
      2) with regard to (1) it only supports the expansion of rights, never the contraction, therefore any expansion of rights which causes the contraction of other peoples rights, it not in the list.

      Example:

      1a) The ability to marry who the hell you want
      1b) The refusal to accept gay marriage

      ==

      1a) is acceptable because it expands the rights of people to live how they want and does not cause the contraction of rights given to other people
      1b) is not acceptable because it expands the rights of people who wish to contract the rights given to other people falling foul of rule (2)

      ==

      It's really not that hard, but I'm shocked that in the 21st century, this STILL has to be explained.......

      • (Score: 2) by tftp on Sunday September 21 2014, @05:27PM

        by tftp (806) on Sunday September 21 2014, @05:27PM (#96372) Homepage

        Your list means that you will support expansion of rights of some pedophile to have sex with your baby. This example proves that you need to think again what is and is not allowed, and why. Hint: human rights are not the goal; survival of the humankind is.

        You can also see that your list only expands rights, but has no mechanisms for taking some rights away that were given in error. In the end everyone will have *all* the rights. A stranger in the street will have a right to stick a knife into you, and you will have a right to shoot him before he comes close enough. I believe we have a name for such a society...

        If, however, you do not advocate for anarchy, then your political system should have a mechanism by which some rights can be taken away, once they prove to be unwisely given. Humankind is not flawless, and democratic decisions are not error-free. There ought to be a method to correct those errors. So far you are of opinion that such method should not exist, and a right, once given, shall stay no matter how good or how bad it is for the society.

        • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday September 22 2014, @01:26PM

          by urza9814 (3954) on Monday September 22 2014, @01:26PM (#96740) Journal

          Your list means that you will support expansion of rights of some pedophile to have sex with your baby. This example proves that you need to think again what is and is not allowed, and why. Hint: human rights are not the goal; survival of the humankind is.

          That would violate the rights of the child, and therefore fails his second rule.

          A stranger in the street will have a right to stick a knife into you, and you will have a right to shoot him before he comes close enough. I believe we have a name for such a society...

          Only if you live in some weird parallel universe which has no concept of a right to life or safety...otherwise you're again violating his second rule.

          Of course, there is one flaw in his rules, which is that you need a consistent set of rights as a starting point for further expansion. I'm not sure there's any current definition that's fully consistent, although the original founding documents of the US might work -- just not their current interpretations.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 22 2014, @11:39PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 22 2014, @11:39PM (#96964)

            That would violate the rights of the child, and therefore fails his second rule.

            I guess a baby is clearly incapable of giving consent, but what if it was an older, but still pre-pubescent child that for some reason consented to having sex with a paedophile? Would that still be a violation of the child's rights? If so, why?

            Of course there are reasons why it shouldn't be allowed, but I don't see how they fit into rules that chris.alex.thomas proposed.

      • (Score: 2) by khallow on Monday September 22 2014, @02:51AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 22 2014, @02:51AM (#96558) Journal

        Typical evidence that you haven't thought this out. So why does 1b) the refusal to "accept" same sex marriage violate rule 2)? Your acceptance of someone's same sex marriage is not required in order for the marriage to occur. Even recognition by the state is not required in order for a same sex marriage to occur. For example, I attended a same sex marriage (Unitarian Church BTW) in the US state of North Carolina in 1998 or 1999 (I forget the year). The marriage wasn't recognized by the state, but it happened anyway and the ceremony was legal to conduct.

        • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday September 22 2014, @01:30PM

          by urza9814 (3954) on Monday September 22 2014, @01:30PM (#96742) Journal

          Ignoring whether or not the issue at hand was a full ban or just "refusal to accept", the state refusing the recognize it IS a rights violation, as it is blatantly discriminatory. There are many legal benefits that come with state recognition of a marriage, and by refusing to recognize same-sex marriage they're saying that only heterosexual couples are entitled to those benefits.

          Of course, if we abolished state recognition of marriage and the associated benefits entirely, that would solve that issue. Not sure why they have any business being involved these days anyway...

          • (Score: 2) by khallow on Tuesday September 23 2014, @02:45AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday September 23 2014, @02:45AM (#97013) Journal

            Ignoring whether or not the issue at hand was a full ban or just "refusal to accept"

            We can't ignore that. The phrase was "refusal to accept gay marriage" not "full ban on gay marriage". That's a huge difference. chris.alex.thomas claims that we don't have a right to think or say certain things, not use the force of law to ban certain things or prevent certain rights from being exercised.
             
             

            Of course, if we abolished state recognition of marriage and the associated benefits entirely, that would solve that issue. Not sure why they have any business being involved these days anyway...

            I agree.

            • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday September 23 2014, @12:01PM

              by urza9814 (3954) on Tuesday September 23 2014, @12:01PM (#97116) Journal

              Ignoring whether or not the issue at hand was a full ban or just "refusal to accept"

              We can't ignore that. The phrase was "refusal to accept gay marriage" not "full ban on gay marriage". That's a huge difference. chris.alex.thomas claims that we don't have a right to think or say certain things, not use the force of law to ban certain things or prevent certain rights from being exercised.

              Right, there's certainly a difference, I was just saying that that distinction didn't really apply to the point I was making -- whether or not one has a legal right to say something (and I'd agree, you have a legal right to say *anything*), the question at hand doesn't involve legal action. You have a right to say anything you want, but I have a right to stop doing business with you because of it.

              • (Score: 2) by khallow on Wednesday September 24 2014, @03:26AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday September 24 2014, @03:26AM (#97471) Journal

                You have a right to say anything you want, but I have a right to stop doing business with you because of it.

                That's not necessarily true in employment. For example, the Eich case involved legally protected political donations. It was actually against California law [vtzlawblog.com] to force him out, even using the "voluntary resignation" fig leaf. And in federal employment, there are several protected classes for which you can't discriminate (such as sexual status or religion). A case exists for religious discrimination against Eich here.

    • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday September 22 2014, @01:23PM

      by urza9814 (3954) on Monday September 22 2014, @01:23PM (#96738) Journal

      If I can be arrested for being a nudest, why can't someone be fired for supporting oppression?

      I'm all for free speech -- I'd even say we don't take it far enough in this country -- but that does not mean speech completely free of consequences, and it CERTAINLY does not mean *actions* free of consequence. First of all, money is not speech. The Supreme Court can say what they want, but it's not. It's a transaction. If money is speech, so is selling someone an ounce of cocaine. That's absurd. Furthermore, free speech applies to *government* restriction only. He shouldn't be put in prison for those beliefs. But if someone is being an asshole, the rest of society has a right -- a duty even -- to call them out on it. You have every right to be an ass, but you can't force me to help you do it.

  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:17PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:17PM (#96049)

    I have to admit, while I defend your right to express ideas such as this, I do find them all quite scary.

    Here we have you rationalizing the hatred, bigotry and intolerance that you engage in during your quest to suggest that such things are unacceptable. It's so obviously hypocritical that it's hilarious, but it isn't hilarious because you're serious.

    You would, in all seriousness, go out of your way to absolutely crush freedom in your weird attempt to somehow increase it. It's so blatantly contradictory, and so blatantly self-defeating, yet you seem incapable of noticing this.

    You are basically saying, "Bigotry is bad, but it's okay for me to engage in it." or "Intolerance is bad, unless it's something I don't like." It's all so absurd.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:11AM

      by Tork (3914) on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:11AM (#96146)

      You are basically saying, "Bigotry is bad, but it's okay for me to engage in it." or "Intolerance is bad, unless it's something I don't like." It's all so absurd.

      "I want people to have equal rights" is absurd?

      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
      • (Score: 2) by khallow on Sunday September 21 2014, @08:21AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 21 2014, @08:21AM (#96205) Journal

        "I want people to have equal rights" is absurd?

        Who said that? Instead, what we have is:

        you've got it the wrong way around, hounding bigots because they are bigoted, does not make you a bigot, there are some views which are better than others, not all views are equal.

        equal rights for marriage is a better view than declaring gay marriage an abomination, you can't call me bigoted because I refuse to accept that you're a homophobe and won't accept your views when you're using those views to harass and intimidate people who are doing nothing wrong.

        '

        As the original poster stated, some views are better than others. And as a result, it is just fine to hound bigots.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday September 21 2014, @09:05AM

          by Tork (3914) on Sunday September 21 2014, @09:05AM (#96220)
          I don't understand what it is you disagree with.
          --
          Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
          • (Score: 2) by khallow on Sunday September 21 2014, @11:24AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday September 21 2014, @11:24AM (#96252) Journal

            You asked a leading question for a statement no one made or disputed.

            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:50PM

              by Tork (3914) on Sunday September 21 2014, @04:50PM (#96364)
              That is not true and you know it. That is where your line of reasoning is going. That's the problem with word-smithing, It still requires aubstance to back it up.
              --
              Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
              • (Score: 2) by khallow on Monday September 22 2014, @02:38AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 22 2014, @02:38AM (#96552) Journal

                That is not true and you know it.

                You put the following in quotes: "I want people to have equal rights" Who said that? As I noted, nobody in the thread has made that statement. So you started your contribution to this thread with false pretenses, claiming that someone somewhere merely stated an uncontroversial statement.

                In context, you're accusing an Anonymous Coward of stating the above quote was absurd. But what he actually wrote was:

                You are basically saying, "Bigotry is bad, but it's okay for me to engage in it." or "Intolerance is bad, unless it's something I don't like." It's all so absurd.

                So to summarize, you wrote a leading question based on a straw man. Now, you're indignant that somehow my accurate summary of your actions is "not true" and I "know it", belittling it as "word-smithing". Well, maybe you should have written something other than what you wrote and treat other posters' arguments fairly and without that grostesque misrepresentation. Then this "word-smithing" wouldn't be such a problem.

                • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday September 22 2014, @03:19AM

                  by Tork (3914) on Monday September 22 2014, @03:19AM (#96569)

                  You put the following in quotes: "I want people to have equal rights" Who said that?

                  The people he was mis-describing.

                  Well, maybe you should have written something other than what you wrote and treat other posters' arguments fairly and without that grostesque misrepresentation.

                  He mis-characterized the view and I corrected him and you knew that's what I was doing.

                  --
                  Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
                  • (Score: 2) by khallow on Monday September 22 2014, @04:52AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 22 2014, @04:52AM (#96602) Journal

                    The people he was mis-describing.

                    Maybe you ought to go back to that post and actually argue that rather than play silly rhetorical games? Please include your reasoning too for why you think that description was inaccurate. We don't automagically know what you are thinking.

                    He mis-characterized the view and I corrected him and you knew that's what I was doing.

                    Right, "corrected". We still don't know what was supposed to be inaccurate about the AC's characterization, especially given what chris.alex.thomas actually wrote. And I still don't know what in the world you are thinking. For example, you could just be disingenuously trolling away. Or you could have genuine psychological problems that cripple your understanding of others' viewpoints. Maybe more than one thing applies. I can't say.

                    But your continued insistence on knowing better than me what I think and believe is getting rather bizarre.

                    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday September 22 2014, @05:33AM

                      by Tork (3914) on Monday September 22 2014, @05:33AM (#96611)
                      My post was clear and you understood it the first time around. Wouldn't you prefer to quit playing dumb and return to the topic?
                      --
                      Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩