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The Guardian has has published an op-ed piece calling for college fraternities to be banned.
Armstrong reminded me of what I hear on campus visits myself – that fraternities are hotbeds for all sorts of risk beyond sexual assault: there’s also alcoholism, alcohol poisoning, people falling out of windows and dangerous hazing incidents. She insists that frats “vary tremendously” in terms of how sexually dangerous they are – traditionally African American frats, gender-inclusive frats and multicultural frats are not as threatening as those populated by mostly-white, economically-entitled students, for example – but when you look at the overall risk fraternities create for students on campus, “reforming or preserving these organizations doesn’t make a lot of sense,” Armstrong said.
I don't think that fraternities need to be eradicated from universities and colleges. I think that more women just need to be more aware about their environment. Stay with people you know. Watch your drink or better yet BYOB. If you feel uncomfortable, then leave the situation. I had an awesome undergrad experience and I even lived on campus. It was a time for exploration for me both sexually and drug-wise. The type of behavior that can be found in fraternities aren't just relegated to fraternity houses; they are also found in dorm parties, house parties, and other off-campus housing.
Be wise. Be safe. You are on the verge of adulthood. Don't be stupid! What do you think?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by spezek on Monday September 29 2014, @12:49PM
I don't think that fraternities need to be eradicated from universities and colleges.
I believe this is a fair opinion.
What sort of arguments does story submitter Prowler have to back it up, to demonstrate why fraternities themselves are not a main cause of sexual violence?
I think that more women just need to be more aware about their environment.
This is not an argument for or against fraternities, just standard rape culture logic packaged as a pseudo-argument related to the story. I will rephrase victim-blaming statements to better reflect what is just: I think that rapists just need to not rape, and that women should need be no more specially aware or alert (read: perpetually vigilant and scared) of their environment than any other human being. I'm certainly not.
Stay with people you know.
Not an argument for or against fraternities. Don't have sex with people you don't know are consenting to it.
Watch your drink or better yet BYOB
Not an argument for or against fraternities. Don't drug other people's drinks.
If you feel uncomfortable, then leave the situation.
Not an argument for or against fraternities. Don't make people feel uncomfortable; don't make people feel like you're going to rape them. It's just poor etiquette, and that is not so good for one of the purposes of college (networking; is it good to be remembered as the creepy rapey guy?).
I had an awesome undergrad experience and I even lived on campus. It was a time for exploration for me both sexually and drug-wise.
That's wonderful for you, but seeing as how the story is about young women experiencing rape at college campuses, I'm not sure that your experience is in any way relevant to the problem.
The type of behavior that can be found in fraternities aren't just relegated to fraternity houses; they are also found in dorm parties, house parties, and other off-campus housing.
Yes. As it's plain to see, rape culture is everywhere. You're part of it. You perpetuate it.
Be wise. Be safe. You are on the verge of adulthood. Don't be stupid! What do you think?
Be wise. Be safe. You are on the verge of adulthood. Don't rape.
I thought that SoylentNews would leave the misogyny of /. behind.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Monday September 29 2014, @01:05PM
I'm not trying to express an opinion but to clarify the likely "WTF" response your post will get, are you seriously suggesting:
women should be less aware of their environment
stay with people you don't know
drink any random thing any random person hands you
if you feel uncomfortable, make sure to stay there
"wtf" is the natural result to complaints about basically good advice.
A good SN car analogy is there are certain parts of the city you need to stop driving thru at night or at least pay very close attention to. Then you'll have very low, basically zero, chance of carjacking. Followed by a flaming response that car jacking is wrong and anyone who advises people not to drive thru the ghetto without paying attention at 2am is a direct cause of carjacking (or something like that).
A better analogy would probably be lung cancer and smoking. So if you want to lower your odds of lung cancer, try not smoking. (insert flames of controversy here)
To some extent it the old doctor joke "my arm hurts when I hold it up this way" "well, then stop holding it up this way". Pragmatically, if X, Y, and Z have negative results, how about not doing X, Y, Z, or at least not complaining about the well known results?
Another way to look at it is its a failure of cognition, some things in and of them selves are inherently bad or stupid, and it gets some people all politically wound up to claim such things actually exist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @04:51PM
There's a continuum based on the possibility of intent. If you crash your car into a tree, you have no one to blame but yourself, for surely you cannot blame the tree. If you smoke and get lung cancer, of course you have mostly yourself to blame, but people have tried to hold the makers of the cigarettes responsible, depending on their intent. But a rapist in a frat house has complete intent, even if he is drunk. Sure, you could avoid the rapist by not attending the party; it might have even been the wiser choice. It doesn't mean the victim is at fault, as if she had crashed into a tree. A victim of a carjacking in a rough neighborhood is not at fault either; the carjackers are.
(Score: 1) by DrkShadow on Tuesday September 30 2014, @06:21AM
There is likewise a continuum of intelligence. If you drive a car, and the airbag deploys, while driving down the interstate and not having impacted anything. Is this the driver's fault? No. Should the driver have been reasonably expected to have prevented the situation? No.
Someone is being good and not driving drunk, walking a short distance home from the bar at night in a decent neighborhood. They get mugged. Is the walker at fault? No. Is this a situation that the walker should reasonably be expected to prevent? Not really.
Someone is walking home at night from a sporting event, through a bad neighborhood, carrying a multi-thousand dollar camera, and get mugged. Is the walker's fault? No. Should they reasonably been able to prevent the situation? Yes. One should reasonably not provoke people (in this case, flash expensive items) in bad areas.
A female goes to the one frat house that has a reputation for raping women vs any of the nine other frat houses in the area, drinks a drink that a random person that claims to be a member of the frat house gives her, and gets raped. Is it the female's fault? No. Should she reasonably have been expected to prevent this situation from arising? Yes. No reasonable person would put themself in a situation where they know there's a high likelyhood that they could be raped. It is common enough knowledge that danger is out there, and it has been said so many times over the past many decades that you should not trust a drink that you don't know the source of, that one should not drink a random drink. For _any_ reason. Thirdly, if she had heard of such rumors, she should make a _particular_ effort to stay away from such a place.
The third one -- I will never, ever do that. I carry about 4-5000 dollars in camera on me for various events. There was _one_ incident, in downtown Los Angeles, in which I had to walk any distance at all with this camera gear, and I made absolutely sure to stay on known paths, with other people from the event that I was leaving. I did not take back alleys. There was _NO_ "but". There was _NO_ "should". There was only looking out for myself. Surely you're not suggesting that I should have taken a casual stroll, closing my eyes and throwing my head back to enjoy the evening breeze. That's not something that a reasonable person would do. But that's what you're saying that women should do -- enjoy the drinks, kiss the guys -- there _shouldn't_ be a rapist in the frat. Throw your head back, arms out, close your eyes, breathe deep -- there _shouldn't_ be a mugger in the next alley.
This isn't about blame. This is about limits to what you can do for others. All these rape-culturists are crying for a world in which crime doesn't exist. I've never heard of one -- not even in Disney fairytales. No one will ever be able to always look out for you (nor should they have to); it is a _required_ life skill that you be able to look out for yourself, and that will absolutely never change.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday September 30 2014, @12:39PM
"at night in a decent neighborhood. They get mugged."
Something above doesn't add up. This is why some people move to the 'burbs but some people love the urban lifestyle and literally don't understand the people who moved out, much as the burb people don't understand why the urbanites stay in areas with high crime and then dare to complain about it. If we are coworkers and make about the same so its not a financial side, tell me why I should care if you insist on living downtown and you complain constantly about panhandlers and your racing bicycle getting stolen... I live in a civilized area far away for a reason, not just random chance.
This inability to detect and respond appropriately to risk is the same as the woman at the frat problem.
(Score: 1) by Buck Feta on Monday September 29 2014, @02:34PM
> rape culture is everywhere
You got your rape culture in my peanut butter.
- fractious political commentary goes here -
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @04:44PM
You got your systemd in my rape culture!