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Democrats go down to the wire with Manchin
Manchin holds out until last minute on elections vote
Manchin-led committee puts forth sprawling energy infrastructure proposal
Like always, Biden is second in command, just there to make speeches. ~ wrong guy for that job ~
UPDATE:
So now the dems are making much ado over this "Schumer/Manchin agreement" because he is offering a "yes" vote on debating the matter.. And as usual dems play their favorite game, always vote for something they know won't pass.
Under the deal, Manchin will provide a 50th Democratic vote on advancing the For the People Act, though it will still fail to overcome Tuesday's procedural hurdle because of a GOP filibuster that requires 60 votes. But being unified, Democrats hope, will keep the focus on GOP opposition to the bill.
Yes, the dems have to keep focus on the irrelevant, not their complicity "compromise" that makes this GOP "opposition" a thing that matters
UPDATE 2:
So the vote went as expected, and as expected, the people that gave away the power to obstruct are blaming them for using it instead of the guy that gives them the power
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @12:21AM (16 children)
Democrats bad, Republicans unmentioned! The POTUS is a figure head! Legislation shall not pass!
and more words of wisdom from our centrist troll
Now go forth and have amazingly insightful discussions! Surely today we will pierce the veil shrouding the echo chambers!
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @12:51AM (7 children)
The democrats control the presidency and both houses. The republicans are irrelevant.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @08:26PM (6 children)
Democrats have a TIE in the Senate.
It's interesting how fully aware you are of the +1 they get from the VP but not the -10 they get for Cloture Selective civics!
(Score: 2, Touché) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @08:42PM (5 children)
They have enough to pass a bill. And they always have a convenient excuse to block a bill. Today, Manchin is all they need. If they win a bigger majority, like in the 111th congress, they will find more to block. Standard operating procedure. There is no reason to bring up the republicans
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @09:03PM (4 children)
And today, Manchin is who they got. [cnn.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @09:53PM (3 children)
If he gives the republicans any say at all and doesn't kill the filibuster, it's just show.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @10:09PM (2 children)
Redundant
Uh oh! Here comes the DNC Mod Squad! And they look hungry! Woof!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @07:40AM (1 child)
Why are you acting surprised?
It is a well known fact that unstable traps are easily triggered.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @05:02PM
Triggered
Thank yous!
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @05:16AM (5 children)
It's really pretty funny seeing you still try to blame "the republicans" when "your" party literally controls not only every house in congress, but also the presidency.
If a party can't get stuff done when they control every single branch of the American legislative system, then perhaps you might start wondering whether there was something wrong with them. Nah, fuck it, let's blame "the republicans" lol.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:48PM (4 children)
Uhhh, WTF?
There are three branches of government: the legislative, the executive, and the judicial.
Currently, Dems control two of those three, the legislative and the executive. Republicans have a firmer control over the judicial than they have held in several decades, thanks to blocking Obama's last potential appointment, and Trump sliding three appointments in there.
I think I understand the point you were attempting to make, but you should start all over, and make your point with facts.
In other words: herp-a-derp!!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @01:23AM
He means both the Senate and Congress. Calling them branches is a bit weird but he does say "legislative system". As they are subsets of one branch, maybe you should call them twigs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @06:00AM (2 children)
Reading comprehension is important, but especially so when trying to get in semantic arguments. I am very glad to see you passed 5th grade social studies, but I said the American legislative system. Legislative means "having the function of making laws."
- The house of representatives makes laws.
- The senate makes laws.
- The president can make defacto laws through executive orders.
If you are confused by the terminology of "branch" you can find a definition here [dictionary.com].
The house, senate, and presidency are all parts of one legislative system. Hence: branches.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 23 2021, @07:54AM (1 child)
Actually, you've failed miserably with your "explanation".
There are no "branches" of the legislature. There is the House, and there is the Senate, which, together, make laws.
The president makes no law, de facto or otherwise. The president can be thought of as the "top cop" in the US, because it is his job to carry out and enforce the policies and laws passed by the legislature. Executive orders do not have the force of law - they are merely his orders to his subordinates regarding his own policies. The next president can rescind any or all executive orders - but that next president cannot repeal a law.
If you're going to pretend to give lessons, you could, at the very least, get your terminology right. A good starting point would be here https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bicameral [merriam-webster.com] and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress [wikipedia.org]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @09:44AM
I'm not misusing terminology. You are getting confused by incorrectly believing terms are used in only one context, when they are not.
Another term you may want to look up is "de facto". It means "being such in effect though not formally recognized". Executive orders can and often do carry the force of law. See, for instance executive order 6102 [wikipedia.org]. FDR seized Americans' gold using little more than an executive order, and the penalty for noncompliance was up to a $200,000 fine and/or 10 years in prison. Executive orders are laws in all but name, hence - de facto.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @07:48PM (1 child)
Breaking news:
Manchin will vote ‘yes’ to begin debate on election overhaul bill [wtrf.com]
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @10:03PM
Absolutely meaningless without killing the filibuster to make it pass
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @01:49AM (50 children)
Manchin is the senior senator from an old, union-led, blue-dog appalachian state that, in the wake of the democrats going increasingly progressive, is turning red.
Never mind what the rest of the country might like him to do, what does his constituency want? Is West Virginia a hotspot of CRT, MMT, neo-marxist social engineering? Is it just sharpening the blades on guillotines for finally taking down the capitalist power structure? Is it rivalling Seattle and Boston for calls to reshape racial structures and defund police?
No.
Not even close.
West Virginia's main reason to be loyal to the democrats was the trade unions, and the faint memory of a massive handout courtesy of FDR. West Virginia is coal country and agriculture; primary industries, and when unions and protecting coal aren't on the menu, you'll find a lot of god and guns under discussion. Lots of trucks and veterans, too.
Manchin's mission was crystal clear since he was first elected: bring home the bacon, serve the coalminers and their unions and their employers, but don't rock the backcountry culture boat. He was most certainly not elected to back an agenda anywhere near AOC's talking-points, he was not elected to support people who want to ban guns, rewrite school curricula to talk about how tough it is to have a dark skin in the USA, or generally kowtow to a lot of Massachusetts academic preoccupations. It's not in his job description.
Now he's standing in the way of a lefty wishlist. This comes under the heading of: What the fuck did you actually think he was going to do? Suck the squad's strap-ons? That was never under discussion. Their best hope of getting a part of their wishlist from him is showing up with a big, fat buy-out for West Virginia, the kind of thing that would make it a boom zone based on federal dollars - but the other players aren't going to stand still for that either.
So, impasse. Not because of moustache-twirling, hand-rubbing, cape-swishing evil and conspiracies, but because he's actually representing his electorate on the basis that if he comes in singing in sweet harmony with Team Prog, there'll be a line of republicans waiting to take his seat next election, and a line of voters backing them up.
And he knows it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:04AM
Exactly!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:42AM (28 children)
None of that puts any more blame on the republicans, which the dems are always doing when they fail to pass a bill in the senate. Regardless of his reasons, whether he is serving himself or serving the party, Manchin is the primary blockage, with Sinema as backup
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:45AM (10 children)
Sounds like things are working as intended. What's wrong with obstructionism anyway?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:42PM (9 children)
Yes, very much so. making sure the right people are cut out of the process, keep the reelection rates at 98%, coffers overflowing, who can ask for better? The machine is working very smoothly. No surprised you would be pleased :-)
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:59PM (3 children)
And you don't get why obstructions are beneficial given that machine? Really?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:05PM (2 children)
The obstructionists are serving the machine, not opposing it. They want guaranteed reelection
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @06:23PM (1 child)
Or....maybe they're conservative so they don't actually want the government to do a whole bunch?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @06:46PM
No, that theater is for the appeal of the viewing audience.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:11PM (4 children)
Do the mathematical analysis. If you ever have any policy push that a narrow majority wants, it becomes a game of margins. The only open question is: who's at the margins, and what leverage does this offer them? A policitian figuring out what their constituency will let them get away with is nothing strange on that front.
And if you don't like incumbent politicians shooting for re-election, you need term limits, because otherwise they're very strongly motivated to snuggle up to their constituency. This is in fact, if you read the federalist papers and make some allowances for shifts in the system since then, explicitly how it's supposed to work.
Alternatively, you could shoot for proportional representation, but that has its own difficulties with politicians snuggling up to their party line so that they can climb the candidate seniority lists.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 23 2021, @06:24PM (3 children)
You do "term limits" on election day. Voting the incumbent out is the voters' responsibility, not the legislature's. And it won't make a difference anyway when the whole thing is monopolized by the DNC/GOP. You have to put a term limit on the party, not its servants. But a good trick against incumbency would be to require the incumbent receive 80% of the vote to retain his/her seat. That doesn't seem unfair. Other perks to remove are automatic placement on the ballot, make them petition to get on like everybody else. And voter "registration". That's entirely bogus. We're supposed to have universal suffrage for every citizen over 18. The state ID is sufficient. Then we gotta kill the 501(c) to deal with the money issue... These are the ways to start leveling the playing field.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 24 2021, @01:39AM (2 children)
Voting the incumbents out is up to the voters. So far, so good. However, if the voters like the incumbents, they return them to their positions. This is why Manchin is still in office: his constituency is basically OK with him. Sure, we could make it easier for other entrants, but even so the GOP has been unable to unseat Manchin; they just managed to get the state a junior republican senator.
Slice it how you like it, but people tend to get into office because they are good at appealing to voters. They stay in office because they're good at appealing to voters. Manchin is good at this, which is why he is there. He's on to a good thing, and he's not going to jeopardise that just because you wish the voters would kick him out. Until and unless you can persuade either the state of West Virginia or the USA at large to change the system, that's where we are.
So what else you have? A plan for proportional representation? Or is this just all about complaining that senators on the margin of a position are using that margin for their own political gain? Because if so, you might want to be totally outraged about how the sky keeps on being blue, or black rocks in the sun get hot.
Honestly, the Democrats are being stupid. They're deliberately proposing things that they know the republicans pretty much hate to a man, and they know that the republicans can't do much except block their initiatives. They can't be bothered to figure out something that a few republicans might vote for. That's on them.
Politics, the art of the possible? Pelosi missed that memo.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday June 24 2021, @08:14PM (1 child)
They can get rid of Manchin in the primary without having to think about republicans. Of course it's up to the voters, i have said that explicitly more than once.
No, they are not. They share 98% of the vote with the GOP, split right down the middle exactly as they like it, makes it very easy to shift blame, just like now, they're blaming the republicans for using the power a single democrat is giving them.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 28 2021, @11:50PM
You're right.
They can get rid of Manchin in the primary!
And then ... um ... you know ... the thing. Right?
Whoever gets the nod from Team D will have to either appeal to the people of West Virginia, same as Manchin, or fall to a republican. In the first scenario, they're just as trapped behind Manchin, v2.0. In the second scenario, they just lost the senate, and get to deal with Mitch.
The problem here isn't Manchin. It's the darned appalachian redneck coal-coughers in the mountains, and no primary on earth will change that one iota.
So what's the next plan?
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @01:28PM (16 children)
What's so hard to understand? [redstate.com] Removing the filibuster to pass legislation against the interest of voters, as the far-left of the party is want to do, is simply opening the door to a fully unconstrained Republican administration. Or is that what the seemingly less intelligent Dems actually want?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:35PM
Right wing tabloid garbage. Opposition will bring victory, compromise only leads to more defeat. Nobody wants to remember the 2010 midterms
Not against their interests, only against their antipathy. While they are in the minority, this is the time to do it. We need opposition to encourage participation in the process. If democrats do what their voters want, more people will vote for them. If they don't, we will continue to trudge along with a conveniently balanced congress and 98% reelection and less than 50% participation.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:37PM
There, FTFU.
While you might fear an "unconstrained republican administration" the real issue is allowing whichever party is in the majority (no matter which one) unconstrained ability to pass whatever brain-fart they wish, simply because they have 51 votes, and 51 sheep that will vote the way they are told to vote by "the party".
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:38PM (13 children)
To be fair to the anti-filibusterous: We all know damn well the Republicans will simply throw out the filibuster, AGAIN, if they ever want to actually pass legislation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:41PM (8 children)
Actually, that's the democrats, given that liberals seem unable to consider the long term implications of their short term child like "give me candy! now!" mentality.
The dems would throw it out, without thinking that by doing so they give the republicians full rein to keep it thrown out when the republicians are the majority.
The republicians, who don't have the democrats child mentality of "give me candy! now!" would realize that they want the filibuster around for the day they are not the majority, and so they'd keep it when in the majority, so they have it when not in the majority.
The dems, ignoring long term views, would throw it out now, and ignore the implications of giving the republicians free reign when the republicians gain the majority again.
(Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:49PM (7 children)
The only people to throw out a filibuster recently are the Republicans who eliminated it for Supreme Court appointments under Trump.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:55PM
They pulled it in line with the standard set by Reid for lower judicial appointments because there was no valid reason for Dem's to block Gorsuch's SC confirmation. Reap as you sow.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:01PM (5 children)
... following a practice established by the democrats.
The democrats were having trouble pushing through their favourite appointments, and the republicans followed their example.
If you don't like the republicans doing that, you should probably be down on your hands and knees, clinging to the ankles of the democrats and staining their penny loafers with your tears while begging, pleading with them to keep the filibuster. Because history tells you that the alternative isn't what you want.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:22PM (4 children)
Given DeathMonkey's child like mentality of "give me candy! now!" he will be unable to comprehend the fact that his ire should be directed at the very party he is defending here.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @06:13PM (3 children)
Fusty is the one who wants the candy now.
I'm just pointing out some relevant facts about the issue we're discussing.
I'm still on the fence about whether we should eliminate it or not. Slightly leaning towards but I do like some of the other ideas floating around like restoring it to a talking filibuster so you can't just kill a bill with an email.
(Score: 2, Funny) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @07:01PM
:-) Yes, very funny. I only want the dems to quit making excuses and playing their blame game. They do not oppose republican policy, until they do, they offer no incentive to vote for them. Just like in '64 and '65 they don't want universal suffrage any more than the republicans do. So once again we have to wait for help from the republicans to get civil rights legislation passed? Won't happen this time, not until the democrats become interested while they have the power. So, basically, it's not gonna happen.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @07:55PM (1 child)
You've mentioned this a few times, do you have a cite for this "filibuster by sending email" claim?
I'm fully in favor of a filibuster requiring those wishing to filibuster (of any political party persuasion) to have to be constantly talking at the lectern in order to do so. The filibuster is a powerful weapon, it should be difficult for those wishing to deploy it to do so.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @08:14PM
Filibuster and reconciliation in the United States Congress [ballotpedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:49PM (3 children)
There would be similar push back from principled Republicans [insert favorite joke] if the GOP tried to do this.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:54PM (2 children)
They already did it and there was no pushback.
Republicans Abandon the Filibuster to Save Neil Gorsuch [theatlantic.com]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:03PM (1 child)
Historic! Yes! It made history!
... of course, it was not unprecedented. In fact, it was very deeply precedented. By the democrats.
This is the sound of a team of democrats carefully lining up their feet, aiming a cannon dead at their overlapping insteps, and yanking the lanyard.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 22 2021, @05:00PM
Minor nitpick. Our cannon is fired electrically, so no lanyard. ;^)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan [wikipedia.org]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @09:45AM (2 children)
Polling showed that Manchin's constituency overwhelmingly supports a $15 minimum wage and other policies you might not expect them to support. This narrative that Manchin is just doing what his constituents want is a bold-faced lie. Manchin is doing what those who give him corporate bribes want.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:56PM
... and if he were being called upon to do a simple up-or-down vote on the question of $15 an hour, he might very well vote for it.
The problem isn't $15 an hour. The problem is a gigantic billosauraus that contains a bunch of other stuff that his constituents hate. That's the problem with these multi-hundred-page omnibus bills that contain everything from military bayonet standards to footrub licensing. That's how we got the CDA - not because it seemed like such a great idea in isolation, but because it was tacked onto the must-pass omnibus telecommunications bill.
But yes, please do explain to us how the good folks of the West Virginia hills are just champing at the bit to get every line item passed, and how Manchin is cunningly standing in the way of that. Should be amusing reading, anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 24 2021, @04:04PM
Did you know many, if not the vast majority, of big businesses support a $15 minimum wage? This even includes companies like Amazon.
You're not see the big picture, they are. Why might a penny pinching company who cares about nothing but their own profit support increasing their costs? Because they can afford it, but their competition cannot. By passing a mandatory $15 minimum wage it becomes all but impossible for a competitor to match Amazon's prices without going deep into the red since nobody else can match Amazon's scale. So it effectively ends up being an anti-competitive boost. It's the same reason sites like Facebook tend to support all of the various laws like the GDPR (which politicians promised us would put an end to these companies bad practices - it hasn't). Facebook can easily hire lawyers to "deal with" this law as necessary. Or even just outright ignore it and pay the fines which tend to be token amounts relative to their revenue. By contrast the fines and legal compliance destroy smaller players, so once again - it works as an anti-competitive tool.
If you want to see what corporate bribes are paying for, look at what the political establishment is aiming for. Because the two are deeply connected.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @09:49AM (10 children)
Also, ensuring the right to vote and making is harder for billionaires to buy elections is not a 'lefty wishlist' but an integral part of a basic fucking democratic society, which we obviously don't even have. I dare say that Manchin should not be siding with the fascist GOP, which just tried to do a fascist coup.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @01:33PM
You misspelled FBI [redstate.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:00PM (7 children)
I sometimes wonder if people like you wouldn't be so crazy if not for the media; if you actually took the time to genuinely read [congress.gov] what you think you're talking about. Though even then perhaps you'd need some knowledge about the state of the rest of the world, which you almost certainly also lack.
All of the developed world has basic requirements for voting, such as presenting ID. This is only controversial in the US. But even here it's not really especially controversial. The vast majority of voters, of all political leanings, races, and any other bag you might choose - overwhelmingly also support such basic requirements.
This bill does have some good things, but it destroys any form of voter identification - and even overrides state efforts to enact such, which is likely unconstitutional on top of all of the other problems of the bill. It requires that sworn statements be accepted at all times in place of identification, including in voting by mail. The bill also makes prosecuting and preventing voter fraud vastly more difficult. It even requires states to register people who cannot legally vote, such as those of ages 16 and 17.
That bill is not part of a functioning democracy. It's quite the opposite as it it will make it effectively impossible to ever have faith that an election was not manipulated.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:27PM (2 children)
Perhaps more telling. Go to a DNC function, all of which tend to require ID. And when asked for identification, instead propose to offer a sworn statement instead.
So engaging with the party will now have stronger ID verification standards than voting for them. That should tell you something...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:34PM
Indeed -- I bet you get 'interviewed' by surly guys in black suits and dark glasses for a few hours for attempting to get in by providing "a sworn statement".
Telling isn't it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 23 2021, @03:13AM
The people the DNC are banking on wouldn't be welcome at a DNC function. Nor at any lower levels of the Party.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:34PM (3 children)
And Manchin's compromise proposal is actually pretty good. [vox.com]
Compromise is not evil.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:03PM
Pretty bad "compromise, doesn't guarantee universal suffrage for everybody over 18. And a national "voter ID" is bullshit too. Your state ID should be your voting card, no separate "registration" required, no rolls to purge for political advantage of the incumbent
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:11PM
If people actually want to see good things happen, it'd be easier to simply pass laws that people can read and parse quickly and clearly. Want to make election day a public holiday? Why not pass a law for such and start voting on it immediately. It could be a law by next week. Of course the reason they don't do this is because they want to shove in stuff that people do not want or support alongside stuff that would see near unanimous support.
And so on that note, the main reason that the recent election has sent faith in our electoral system tumbling is largely because of mail in voting paired with minimal identity verification. This is an especially dangerous problem because it is practically impossible to "bust" people doing it. Manchin's proposal would likely expand mail-in-voting and comes with no increased safeguards to ensure its integrity.
Ultimately this bill seems to be trying to solve a non-existent problem. You'd struggle to find any significant number of people who wanted to, but were unable to vote in the last election. By contrast we now live in a country where 47% [rasmussenreports.com] of the nation believes that the election was illegitimate. Most notably, that 47% is not strictly partisan as it includes 17% of democrats and 28% of independents. And that simply isn't sustainable. When that many people feel disenfranchised, democracy has already failed and is running on inertia. But it's, perhaps, not too late for a resuscitation. Throwing out mail-in ballots like beads at Mardis Gras is not a great start.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:24PM
Compromise isn't necessarily good either. Compromise can end up giving you the worst of both worlds, and the benefits of neither. Compromise could be settling a property line dispute by establishing an unambiguous standard, to the reasonable satisfaction of both parties, but it could also mean trying to navigate two fundamentally opposed positions, such as one group wanting to ban a class of conduct in the public sphere (such as religious adherence) while others wish to preserve that option. There's not a meaningful middle ground.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 22 2021, @05:06PM
That's amusing. One of your leftist billionaires donated millions, for the purpose of getting felons to vote in Florida, on the presumption that felons would vote left.
Another leftist billionaire has literally bought district attorney elections all around the country, in the interest of combatting law enforcement and/or the R party.
The idea that Democrats want billionaires out of the election process is ludicrous. Democrats actually want to ban billionaires who are not friendly to Democrats and their "causes".
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 22 2021, @03:29PM (5 children)
And good for him!
I disagree with his positions vehemently but he is doing exactly what he promised he was going to do when he ran!
Fusty's last journal was complaining that Manchin was actually trying to negotiate with the republicans. HOW DARE HE!
(Score: 0, Redundant) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:07PM (4 children)
He is simply a corrupt piece of the DNC/GOP machine to protect their 98% incumbency
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @08:16PM (3 children)
You are not necessarily wrong, but playing this black and white game with politics is dumb. DM made a very good point about Manchin representing his voters. Poke a hole in that if you want to argue the corruption line. The simple fact is that nothing will change while conservatives are a manipulated voting base. As many have pointed out party Democrats on average are closer to Republicans of the 80s/90s.
But you know all this, your intention is to sow apathy and FUD while pretending you oppose corruption. I wish I could believe you, but as they say actions speak louder than words. You may claim otherwise, but every trolling journal entry shows your real intent. Possibly you're just a Southpark Libertarian, decent yet absolutely clueless intentions.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 22 2021, @08:35PM (2 children)
Yeah yeah, very funny. It is democrat acquiescence/"compromise"/complicity that generates apathy. The have to oppose the republicans to inspire participation.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @10:42PM (1 child)
Problem for Manchin is, if he were to do so he'd probably inspire his own opposition and be out of office.
So, that may be a positive in your world.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday June 23 2021, @01:24AM
Yeah, there's always hope during the primaries
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..