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Journal by janrinok

NCommander is publishing a Meta story today: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=22/11/20/0342250 It will be published on the front page with all of the restrictions that apply to such stories and discussions.

In it NCommander explains how he sees the future of the site developing with regards to software, hardware and administration. Some of those views are different now from the views that many of us held in 2014. The requirement for some of our servers is no longer justified, and there are better technologies available for achieving what we are trying to do thus also reducing our running costs. The administration of the site is placing an increasing burden on the relatively few administrators that remain in the support team. Society has also changed. Some discussion has been replaced by intimidation and threats. It is much more polarised than it was in 2014. In many ways this is the same as for numerous other web sites. However, the abuse and toxic atmosphere created by a small number of Anonymous Cowards is unacceptable and must be reversed if the site is to survive. The responsibility for some of the problems that we are experiencing, and the resulting actions that we have had to take, is placed entirely at their feet.

A few months ago the majority of the community opted - albeit very reluctantly - to remove AC posts from the front pages of the site. This action has successfully removed the vast majority of the abuse from our discussions. We are seeing a slow increase in the number of comments week-on-week and the signal-to-noise ratio is now much higher. It is only right that we also reconsider the implications of that change.

This journal entry is to enable anyone who wishes to remain anonymous to express their views. I promise that I will read it and will ensure that genuine views are considered when the community decides which path it wishes to follow. I cannot make any assurances that other members of the site's administration will read it - although I expect that at least some will. If you have an account then I strongly encourage you to leave your views under NCommander's Meta story and not here.

I further my promise that I will try to represent your views as honestly and fairly as I can.

If you abuse this journal then you are simply giving more support to the alternative options that might be considered than you are to the status quo. I encourage you to expresses sensible, logical and considered views but should you decide that abuse is what you prefer then this journal entry can simply be removed. You are being given an opportunity - do not throw it away.

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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:01AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:01AM (#1280772)

    I've never had a account here due to the latent threat of off-site harassment by certain individuals. Anonymous posting is what enabled me to post here over the years despite that. I understand why you've been forced to remove that feature, due largely to those same toxic individuals. As with the Green Site, I'll probably move on. I hate it when the bad guys win, but that's the society we live in now. Good luck with the renovations, and I hope that you're able to clean the site and get it growing again. Cheers.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @09:51AM (6 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @09:51AM (#1280778) Journal

      You can have an account yet always post as AC. Your username doesn't have to indicate who you really are, and nobody will see it anyway if you post as AC. I don't think you will be any more vulnerable off-site harassment than you are now.

      These are plans and ideas for discussion - nothing is set in stone.

      To be honest, you are the type of AC we want to keep!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:42AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:42AM (#1280788)

        will need to change the fifth dot point under important stuff below the new comment box.

        also wonder if your legal exposure changes with the new policy around actual editor deletions that could have but never were applied?

        i will be one of the smartarse (short form commenter) ACs that was not causing trouble, but regardless you will be happy to see go away. never subscribed, only managed a sub or two, do have an account but only modded in the early couple of years. generally never login for convenience as much as maintaining AC status these days.

        anyhoo it was nice while it lasted, the quality of comments held up for at least the first 7 years from AC as much as named members. even the trolls were entertaining until ari got into doxing and the 'other' one got super spammy. others have said it was inevitable, but we all noticed the feel here has certainly changed these last couple of years.

        thats life, so long, thanks to all, will check back every so often.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Common Joe on Monday November 21 2022, @04:01PM (4 children)

        by Common Joe (33) <{common.joe.0101} {at} {gmail.com}> on Monday November 21 2022, @04:01PM (#1280821) Journal

        Possibility: Have a checkbox in the settings where the user can default to posting as AC instead of under their username.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @05:44PM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @05:44PM (#1280839) Journal

          The button is there now. Next time you post a comment look below the text box you are typing in. There is a check box for Post Anonymously just above the Preview button. You can even set it as the default somewhere in your settings - I don't know exactly where though.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 12 2023, @06:07PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 12 2023, @06:07PM (#1311135)

            You should inform users that usung the checkbox does not prevent staff from seeing which user posted the 'AC' comment.

            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday June 12 2023, @06:25PM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 12 2023, @06:25PM (#1311137) Journal

              You should read the contents of the wiki that has been there for almost 9 years until it disappeared last November, in particular this extract from the FAQ:

              Are "Anonymous Coward" posts actually anonymous?

              When displayed to general readship accounts, yes. To accounts with site administration privileges, no. When an AC post is made by Soylent account holder X, its IP is hashed, and this is visible for up to about two weeks after the post is made to admin account holders. This hash matches the IP hash that appears with account X's non-anonymous posts, and so it is clear to the admin account holders that the AC is in fact Soylent user X. For this reason, when posting anonymously, if you actually want your post to be anonymous to everyone on Soylent, you should ensure that you make the post from a unique IP that is not the same IP you normally post from. Note: Just because a post can't be identified on Soylent to a particular account and IP, does not mean that the authorities can't associate posts with specific individuals. "Anonymous" is very much a relative term.

              After 9 years you still haven't read it. That is hardly the fault of the staff.

          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:08AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:08AM (#1312164)

            I clicked "Post Anonymously", but I am also a pure AC, no account, only a hashed IP address that janrinok thinks originates in the United Arab Emirates, so basically, fuck janrinok, and his sockpuppet hunt. I do not care who you are, as long as you can make a decent argument, and not be all racist and horse-de-wormery. Janrinok wants agent confirmation. After a long career in intel, you have to know who you are dealing with, because like Kim Philby, the Soviets pulled the wool over the eyes of the Brits so many times.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:29AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:29AM (#1280775)

    1. I absolutely agree on getting rid of MySQL NDB cluster. Your setup (if you left it the way it was setup the last time you all discussed it) is not set up for high availability and is actually worse than a standard setup at this point in a number of measures.

    2. You mention FastCGI and getting rid of Apache completely. I based on that, you probably mean using FastCGI from the nginx front(s). That change will probably end up having some interesting effects on the rehash instances running. I would definitely try that on the dev server before putting anything like that on the actual website.

    3. Speaking of the the dev server. I again implore you and the admins to turn on code coverage for rehash on the dev server. I don't think you all have an accurate picture of what is going on there and you seem like you'll be much more accepting of that idea for a number of reasons.

    4. Definitely try upgrading mod_perl first before doing an FCGI transition. I probably don't need to tell you how to do that, but I would definitely have some coverage information and your mod_perl CHANGES ready!

    5. Love the Docker or other container plan and walling off with a proper LSM. Even just the containerization is great because it should ease scaling if this place takes off or for those curious in the future who want to play around.

    6. At this point, it isn't a surprise that the no-AC decision will stick. It saddens me in a way and I know it has already driven off a number of SME contributors to this site. We already laugh at some of the incorrect information that has sailed by unchallenged and it soured me (and probably us) from contributing where such comments are allowed. I get why the decision is made and how we got here, but it is what it is.

    7. I don't know how well your IP ban idea will work. IP addresses are disposable and any properly motivated and armed spammer can have near endless numbers of IPs to evade even those bans.

    8. In all honesty, I don't know if this site even has the resources to fend of the truly motivated and armed attacker. Aristicratus and his claimants seems to be doing so more for the lulz than anything and doesn't really seem to be the best armed. Otherwise, this site would have been toast a long time ago given that it was and is rife with vulnerabilities.

    9. Deleting comments is fine enough. It is your site and I get some things (e.g. CSAM) should be banished from the Internet. The only real problem I have is there is no real accountability on them. This place has always tried to maintain some semblance of transparency, but there really seems to be none in this area. There is no public list of actions taken, spam mods dealt, comments deleted, etc. Who is watching the watchers is always a valid question, especially when they claim the need for more obtrusive powers.

    10. I also find such talk a bit ironic given that the journal pages are full of literal spam of many types that does nothing but hurt the reputation of this site, both technically and socially, and that there has been repeated refusals to do anything about that.

    11. I may trust your intentions while questioning your underlying motivation, but the ride has been interesting so far.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:09AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:09AM (#1280779)

      A few I forgot that others came up with: add a watchdog for slashd, at a minimum, so that way most hiccups are fixed without admin intervention. Fix your mail server, add proper DNS entries, and clean up its reputation. Fix your DNS SOA, add a TSIG for let’s encrypt if you haven’t already so you don’t have to fret about that either, and think about deploying DANE for extra points.

      Play your cards right and document everything and this dinosaur could be a model for those trying to build their own in the future.

      • (Score: 2) by fab23 on Monday November 21 2022, @04:35PM (2 children)

        by fab23 (6605) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @04:35PM (#1280830) Homepage

        Fix your mail server, add proper DNS entries, and clean up its reputation. Fix your DNS SOA, add a TSIG for let’s encrypt if you haven’t already so you don’t have to fret about that either, and think about deploying DANE for extra points.

        What I can see from outside, the mail server is running, it sure may have some missing parts yet, as it was rebuilt from scratch. It has a proper hostname with corresponding PTR, A, AAAA and MX DNS entries even with DNSSEC enabled. Also a SPF TXT record is present. And it has a (still valid) certificate from Let's Encrypt.
        Unfortunately its IPv4 address is listed in some DNS Block Lists, I will send details to the team.

        I do not know all the details on how they are currently renewing the LE certificate. I only know that they have a wildcard certificate and so need to do this through DNS challenge and are doing it kind of manually.
        For my personal infrastructure I already have it fully automated. But it took a quite long time to improve it and fix little things, mostly in the process afterwards to distribute the certificates to all needed systems and services. I have created an acme.example.com subdomain where my ACME tool (go-acme/lego) is able to create the temporary entries for the challenge. All domains, for which I am responsible to create certificates, have a _acme-challenge CNAME entry in their domain (e.g. in example.net) pointing to a corresponding example-net.acme.example.com name. The acme.example.com subdomain is only on one server (in my case the same where lego is running), so there is no delay with the distribution to all other name servers.

        Regarding DANE (IN TLSA DNS entries) it is not so easy any more since using certificates from LE, as they have to be renewed quite often. I did had DANE entries in the past when still using certificates from commercial CA with validity of 1 year and even longer. To add / modify the multiple TLSA entries you already need to have the signed certificate to create the needed checksum/hash. Then you need to add the new entries and still keep the old ones. Then you need to wait until all the TTLs for the TLSA entries have expired and then you can deploy the new certificate to all services and reload/restart them. After that you can remove the TLSA entries for the old certificate.
        I was already thinking about this, but to automate it, it is a major undertaking and currently probably not worth the effort as almost no software checks for this entries.

        • (Score: 2) by fab23 on Monday November 21 2022, @08:36PM

          by fab23 (6605) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @08:36PM (#1280889) Homepage

          Unfortunately its IPv4 address is listed in some DNS Block Lists, I will send details to the team.

          This was a false alarm and the IPv4 address of mail.soylentnews.org is clean and not listed in any DNB BLs checked. This affected BLs are offline since a few years, but my check when run in shell did report them, but when used through Nagios it did not report any failure. So in the end it helped me to also improve my own infrastructure as I did found an updated version of this check.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2022, @12:17AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 22 2022, @12:17AM (#1280927)

          It is possible for this site to fully automate their usage of LE, which is what the TSIG is for. Because SN is using BIND, you can use TSIG to alter the _acme-challenge DNS entries in a secure manner without affecting anything else in the zone.

          As a bonus, it also allows you to create the TLSA entries for the new certs and delete the old ones, again in a secure manner without affecting anything else on the zone. Your deployment script can handle all of that for you, and there are a couple of examples out there (I think ARIN or USCERT have one) and I know people who do so at scale already using such a script. The basic process is to start certbot. It can use its TSIG mode to create the proper challenge entries and get the wildcard certificate. Your deployment script generates the hash for whatever TLSA entry you chose. You use TSIG to add the new TLSA record. You wait 2.5 times your DNS value (which would be 2.5 hours according to the current SOA but you could do 2 days for safety). Then you add the new certificates and keys to nginx and remove the old ones. Then you reload nginx, being sure to wait for the reloads to actually complete. Then you can safely delete the old TLSA record using TSIG because you can be assured no one is relying on it.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @10:47AM (6 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @10:47AM (#1280785) Journal

      Thanks for your comments. I'll leave the hardware points to someone more qualified than I am to answer them. (With the caveat that I cannot guarantee that anyone with the answers will read this journal)

      The function of the dev server is diverse. It is used for training, it is used for testing software (and trying to crash the system) and, like the main site, it hasn't been updated in several years. We can currently reset it to a safe configuration very quickly after breaking it - either by testing or letting new trainees loose on it!

      The only real problem I have is there is no real accountability on them. This place has always tried to maintain some semblance of transparency, but there really seems to be none in this area. There is no public list of actions taken, spam mods dealt, comments deleted, etc. Who is watching the watchers is always a valid question, especially when they claim the need for more obtrusive powers.

      There are several issues here. One is that I agree with you hence the reason I wrote: https://soylentnews.org/meta/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=52490&page=1&cid=1280770#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]

      I do propose strict controls on comment deletion - I have stated quite clearly that it must be a last resort, that no single individual should be able to do it alone (at least 2 admins, maybe more), and that the system must record who/why/when. But we cannot show you the content that was deleted. If it was child pornography (1 attempt in the last 4 months) or doxing information (numerous actual examples over the last 3 years) then we are guilty of publishing that information. We are committing an offence. In fact, if we identify the comment too closely some people would find it on the WayBack machine or some other long term repository.

      If we open up the site database to public scrutiny - ALL the private data gets compromised as well. There are pages which show staff exactly who has moderate whom with a spam moderation - or indeed any significant down moderation. There are pages containing the private data and full history of each account. If you had access to these pages then you would also have access to private information again. If you don't trust the staff to manage it then there there is nothing else we can do. We also believe that bans are between the site and the person being banned. If you think that the community should be informed then raise it as a discussion point, even as a submission.

      New pages that could display some data releasable to the public can only be created by a programmer. We haven't had one for over 12 months, and he stopped doing any significant tasks long before that.

      I also find such talk a bit ironic given that the journal pages are full of literal spam

      Do you mean the comments within a specific journal, or the numerous journals that are created by fake accounts? The former is what ACs asked for - somewhere unregulated where they could discuss whatever they wanted. The fact that they rely on somebody with an account to create a topic, or that they can't moderate them because ACs just can't, apparently didn't occur to some of them. I am not wasting my mod points on the journals. I have posted stories in the journals - they have been trashed and ridiculed. We will see how this one fares.

      AC's were the ones trashing the stories on the front page. I know that they were a minority - but it was sufficient to cause long-term damage to the site's reputation. I have repeatedly said that I wish we could revert back to what we had. For that people must change - not the management of the site.

      The latter problem I have suggested a fix for - delete the false accounts if they are not used. They never ever get enough karma to appear in the list of journals displayed on the front page.

      Currently, there is no mechanism for administrators to make changes to any journals or the comments in them - they are controlled entirely by their creator. The software will have to be changed to make such a thing possible. We might be in a position to do that in a few weeks/months time.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:03PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:03PM (#1280865)

        Bans and removed content must have transparency if you want to call this site a community.

        The old admin had multiple accusations of misconduct with one example that stuck around for years before recently being exposed. If it was truly a code bug then it should have been investigated even if not fixed. Trust is a necessary component with a centralized site, so without compromising user's private info the actions if admins should be as transparent as possible.

        PS: I am not aristarchus, update your mental model instead of assuming they are the only user critical of the site.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @08:27PM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @08:27PM (#1280884) Journal

          Why must bans have transparency? They are issued for anything from inappropriate moderation (starting with a 1 week ban for a first offence and doubling for each repeated offence) to doxing and threats of violence. Why does everyone need to know that somebody was overzealous in moderating a specific individual - either positively or negatively?

          If someone gets ticketed by the police for having a faulty bulb in their vehicle's sidelights you do not expect to see it reported nationwide in the press and television, do you?

          As editors have not yet got the ability to remove content - the only method identified so far is a kludge that has a poor user interface - then the procedures and subsequent publication of such actions has not even been considered yet.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:01PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:01PM (#1280913)

            If someone gets ticketed by the police for having a faulty bulb in their vehicle's sidelights you do not expect to see it reported nationwide in the press and television, do you?

            Never heard of the show COPS?

            The post assumed preserving privacy. Shame is the only tool for the social media problem. Users here can be anonymous as possible here, as you repeatedly point out, so what is the big deal? Also, any records from arrests to tickets are easily found. Actions taken by you or other staff? A black hole, near impossible to prove. If you want trust you have to be OPEN. Trust, but verify!

            As editors have not yet got the ability to remove content - the only method identified so far is a kludge that has a poor user interface - then the procedures and subsequent publication of such actions has not even been considered yet.

            Here I thought the discussion was about possibilities and options. Slow your roll big guy.

            • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:18AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:18AM (#1312167)

              There is only one aristarchus. One soylentil to rule them all, one soylentil to find them, one soylentil to troll the rest, and in the Darkness Bind them. Obviously, using bind is the problem. That and the pervasive paranoia. Only one aristarchus? Have you no herd that there is an Aristarchus Collective? Hundreds of thousands of aristarchoi, on the internets, all attacking poor little SN at the same time, possibly using Low Orbit Ion Cannons, for all intense porporsies. The real problem is managerial. The eds should never have listened to Runaway. aristarchus knows that everything he claimed is false, and this makes his Wholey Juggalo against SoylentNews trice holey. Will the facts ever come out? Will Runaway ever admit to all the things he has openly admitted here on soylentnews, like the number and caliber of his weapons, the displacement of his motorcycle, his (dubious) military service, and where he grows his beans? Rags, the dog's name is Rags. Too many details, Runaway. You are toast.

          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15 2022, @12:59AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 15 2022, @12:59AM (#1282444)

            On the Internet, nobody knows that aristarchus is banned.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @11:02PM (#1280914)

        I understand it is a balancing act between accountability and revealing negative data that only assist those with bad agendas. But there are processes to fix what you are complaining about. If someone reports a post or the admins find a bad content have a standard process to delete the post.

        Roughly: prevent the live comment from being displayed, report the material to either NCMEC (Hopefully you all do remember you are required to submit CSAM to NCMEC) or the FBI (hopefully you remember to submit required tips to the FBI too) or the anti-spam groups, notify the legitimate archive services to remove the posts there as well (which they do). After acknowledgement by the responsible authority, the comment is deleted completely and purged from tainted backups, after acknowledgement from the archive services, log that the comment was deleted. The only slow part in the chain is the archive services but even they are pretty fast once they know you don't do spurious reports.

        I'm also not saying to open the entire database to public scrutiny. Again, there is a balancing act. But Trust requires transparency. There is a reason for sunshine laws and the various exceptions to them after all. There is a balance to be reached and I personally think that it is closer to the fully-open side than the fully-closed side. I also understand they require a programmer, but you have one that is literally volunteering his time and will have to make much more drastic changes than just adding a template or two and a few SQL calls. Y'all asked for thoughts and NCommander originally brought up the idea of expanding the deleting and other powers of the admins, so there you go: a suggestion.

        Lastly, I meant the actual spam posts in journals. I get that certain companies are paid to spread the word far and wide about AC companies, for example. But they don't do the site any good. In fact they hurt the website. Real life users may never see them, but I guarantee the search engines, spam monitors, and other bots do. And they react accordingly.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:34AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:34AM (#1280782)

    Don't let the door hit you in the ass, Bitch. And take some of these other senile sons of bitches with you!

    https://soylentnews.org/~Runaway1956/journal/ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @12:55PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @12:55PM (#1280795)

      More antisemitic drivel from the Runaway

      an excerpt [soylentnews.org]

      In this country, the people who run things--who populate major law firms and corporate boards--understand all of this at some level. They pay lip service to multiculturalism and diversity and nonjudgmentalness, but they don't raise their own children that way. I have highly educated, technically sophisticated friends who have moved to small towns in Iowa to live and raise their children, and there are Hasidic Jewish enclaves in New York where large numbers of kids are being brought up according to traditional beliefs. Any suburban community might be thought of as a place where people who hold certain (mostly implicit) beliefs go to live among others who think the same way.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @03:17PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @03:17PM (#1280809)

        Mentioning that Hasidic Jews exist is not antisemitism, you bot.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:33PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:33PM (#1280828)

          No harm in making them wear an armband either.

        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:11PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:11PM (#1280848)

          Dog-whistle? I don't hear no dog-whistle!

          -runaway

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:09PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:09PM (#1280867)

          The anti-semitism is clear, I see some people are fooled enough by your bad faith "just an obersvation bro" to ignore the blatant bigotry.

          In this country, the people who run things--who populate major law firms and corporate boards--understand all of this at some level. They pay lip service to multiculturalism and diversity and nonjudgmentalness, but they don't raise their own children that way. I have highly educated, technically sophisticated friends who have moved to small towns in Iowa to live and raise their children, and there are Hasidic Jewish enclaves in New York where large numbers of kids are being brought up according to traditional beliefs.

          "The people who run things" is the most popular anti-semitic trope, then for totally-coincidental-reasoning you bring up Hasidic Jewish neighborhoods. Talk about gullible fools baited into blaming a minority group for all the evils in the world.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:20PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @10:20PM (#1280903)

            "The people who run things" is the most popular anti-semitic trope, then for totally-coincidental-reasoning you bring up Hasidic Jewish neighborhoods. Talk about gullible fools baited into blaming a minority group for all the evils in the world.

            The most amusing part is that the Hasidim often prefer to do religious studies instead of having jobs. In fact, many Hasidim are on public assistance. As a result, Hasidic communities [ojpac.org] tend to have lower incomes (both in the US and in Israel) than other communities.

            As such, those folks aren't "running things" other than religious schools and don't have much economic power at all. In fact, the idea that jews are "the people who run things" is a ridiculous trope, especially given the fact that in a world of eight billion people, there are less than 20 million jews (~0.25% of the world population).

            But some folks apparently feel the need to blame someone for the bad shit that happens, so why not the jews? They are few and have historically (for more than a millenium) been discriminated against for no real reason other than they're not Christians, and more recently (within the past century) because they're not Islamic.

            Since all of these folks are battling each other over who is worshipping the very same imaginary sky daddy in the proper way, it would be laughable if such battles hadn't (and aren't) been so violent and bloody. Instead it's just sad.

            Getting away from such false belief systems would make the world a much better place, IMNSHO.

          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:28AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 20 2023, @07:28AM (#1312168)

            I found it alarming, and curious, that the defense of the fucking Nazi motherfucking mass murderer asshole (Is this too harsh?) idiot, was that he was not anti-semitic, but only oppose those that were helping refugees imigrate to the United States, which some members of the Jewish synagoge where he committed cold-blooded mass murder, supported, because, you know, the Shoah and shit. Any one who opposes the international asylum system (like VLM, chroma, and Sulla), are Nazis like this murderous fuck, and they need to be called out, dressed down, permabanned, and stuff like that. Just saying, bro. Hanging is too good for Nazis, and anti-semites.

  • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @12:39PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @12:39PM (#1280794)

    That is all.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @02:29PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @02:29PM (#1280806)

    As you predictably push to attach real-world names to all opinions you store in your database, I say your database is not deserving of putting any new words in there, going forward. Let you have your coveted echo chamber fully to yourselves, and you can eat it too if you figure out how.

    Any normal thing we say today, can be declared wrongthink some day in the future, and retroactively prosecuted to the full extent of new laws and beyond. Thousands of Russians going to jail this year, some for the things they said on the Internet a full decade before, are just one lot of sad examples among a number of similar withchhunt campaigns worldwide.

    Note the "we" above includes you too, dear management; do not imagine your todays affiliations make you untouchable forever. A lot of people already had their rude awakenings a few, or many, years down the road; your luck can happen to be no better than theirs, and then your heads will make a nice step for someone to go up in their career.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @03:12PM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @03:12PM (#1280808) Journal

      If 'they' want your head - they will have it. Whether SN exists or not will not change the outcome.

      You enjoy your paranoia.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @03:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @03:41PM (#1280818)

        Your talking of "paranoia" in 2022 A.D. is disingenuous in the extreme. The "paranoid" are proven to be damn OPTIMISTS by what *already* happened.
        Do either wake up and look outside, or update the script, please.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @03:34PM (6 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @03:34PM (#1280816) Journal

      How does using an email address give us anything personal about you? It doesn't necessarily tell us who you are, it doesn't tell us where you are, it doesn't tell us anything about you at all.

      I have an email address janrinok[at]rambler.ru, here, try another "tf99gsr[at]yahoo.com" , or how about " minecraft73489[at]gmail.com".

      Now, what does that tell you about any of them? Are they the same person? Do they know each other?

      You go cower in the shadows, like the 'wee timorous beastie' that you are. Other people have lives to live.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:08PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:08PM (#1280823)

        How does using an email address give us anything personal about you?

        The "you" is absolutely not who anyone has a care about. The problem as you well know, is your bosses.
        These days, "not-throwaway" emails want your phone number, and most governments made their mobile operators have your ID on file, tied to that number. Nice and easy isn't it?

        Now, what does that tell you about any of them?

        Am I the one who need remind you of the big data and correlating, or do you believe the remaining readers of your site so dumb as to not know that?

        Other people have lives to live.

        A number of such ex-bold spirits are now about to end their lives in the reinstated GULAG. Those who remembered the history and did not flaunt their identities, are free.
        Working as a stool pigeon for a living is despicable, even in todays economy.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:27PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:27PM (#1280826)

          *yawn*

          You can use a VPN tunnel out of your home/personal/work network, to some location halfway around the world. Connect to an open proxy from there, to another location thousands of miles from that first location. Create your throwaway email account, that can't possibly be traced back to you by less than state actors. Register your new account on SN. Wait for the confirmation email. Verify your email account. Close the proxy/VPN tunnels. Never use them again. Enjoy your account. Adjust your settings to get notifications here on the site, instead of via email. You have a fully working account, and no one has any idea who you are. If you don't feel safe using two hops to create your throwaway email account, just multiply that a few times. Do one hop through every nation in the world. I don't know if the NSA monitors pluton mail well enough to trace all of that.

          And, you can turn in your nerd card at the door. FFS, children can figure out how to do anonymous proxies these days.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:31PM (#1280827)

            Much easier to never post here.

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:12PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @07:12PM (#1280868)

            Runaway explains his methods for gaming SN for his white supremacy propaganda #shocking

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:13PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @04:13PM (#1280825)

        Now, what does that tell you about any of them? Are they the same person? Do they know each other?

        The surveilling ones will surely be able to answer your questions.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @05:57PM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @05:57PM (#1280843) Journal

          Fine. They already have your address, workplace, income, health data, vehicle data and the same for all of your friends. If somebody is concerned that what they say on SN might incriminate them they shouldn't even be on the internet. The ISP has everything that they post anyway and I'll bet it is easier to get than monitoring this site. SSL won't slow the big boys down, nor I would bet will TOR. But if they are that keen to get information on you - it is already too late.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @05:53PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @05:53PM (#1280841)

    Attractants and repellents, goods and bads, wants vs needs... seems like you could've sat back and made a thought-filled list, a long time ago. Too late now.

    I'm truly, deeply concerned that I can't see https://www.thefarside.com/ [thefarside.com] right now. What did I do wrong?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:11PM (#1280847)

      The topic is off-topic! What's on-topic, English sports?

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:03PM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:03PM (#1280844)

    Maybe it is unavoidable, but it's still sad that i can't make comments except here in the shadows. I have one place left where i can comment without registering, but it's for a specific subject.

    As i said in the original topic, i just don't feel like reading the comments much anymore. I can't contribute, so what's the point. I'm not saying my contributions are anything that earth shattering, but sometimes i might be able to clear something up, share my knowledge or whatever.

    But as it is, i guess i'll keep reading the interesting articles and be quiet in the shadows feeling a bit of an outcast.

    And hey, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us you whackjob, paranoid, selfish, spamming assholes. Fuck you, fuck you very much.

    "Heaven's closed, hell's sold out, so i walk on earth..."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:08PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:08PM (#1280845)

      The only way to win, is not to play.

      Let it go. There are other places.

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @06:15PM (1 child)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @06:15PM (#1280850) Journal

        Oh really - where you are given free rein to say what you wish without any responsibilities at somebody else's expense? So why do you still come here?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:21PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:21PM (#1280852)

          Purely for your warm, witty banter.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @06:14PM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @06:14PM (#1280849) Journal

      I would much rather that we could think of an alternative but for the moment we cannot. We would rather not lose you.

      And while I support your outburst against the minority who have caused this problem I fear that they neither care nor feel remorse. It is too late. However, this is a discussion. Nothing yet has been decided so don't be too hasty.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @06:53PM (#1280863)

        I would much rather that we could think of an alternative but for the moment we cannot.

        Ay, there's the rub.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @07:45PM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @07:45PM (#1280874) Journal

      Let me turn the question around. Given that we cannot open the front pages to unlimited AC posting without going back to what we had 4 months ago, what would you like to see in terms of provision for ACs? What would convince you to stay?

      Do you want a copy of each front page story reproducing in a journal so that you can discuss it? Do you have an alternative method of identifying (by random number, a different kind of username "acMyName" etc)? I'm not sure how we would manage the latter, but we haven't yet given a great deal of thought. There would have to be some form of verification (issued password for each AC - but how would we guarantee only one password per AC?). We don't want to actually know who you are, we just want to know one account from another so that those who respect the system can participate) Perhaps a your id_rsa.pub - it doesn't tell us anything about you but it is unique to you.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @08:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @08:40PM (#1280890)

        Please, for the love of the Bard, edit! Less is... somethin'.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Monday November 21 2022, @08:09PM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 21 2022, @08:09PM (#1280879) Journal
      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11 2022, @10:14AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11 2022, @10:14AM (#1281999)

        Rather than take away the ability to post as AC on the site, what we actually want is some way of controlling AC posts

        Seems like what janrinok wants is a sort of Tesla AC self-posting control, that will cause the AC to crash and burn, preferably into an emergency vehicle.

        In any case, SN appears to be dead. No interesting comments anymore. And the front page continues with really boring and uninteresting articles, the polls are trite and ridiculous, and Ncommander has once again gone missing.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11 2022, @08:25PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 11 2022, @08:25PM (#1282047)

          Spam mod in the hidden depth of a janrinok journal! How appropriate and end for SoylentNews!

          Always remember BuckFeta, and the hope that was.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:24PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:24PM (#1280895)

    I have never directly interacted with NCommander, and this is the first time since I came here in 2019 that I've seen him take an active role. I remember a story or two he posted, but little more. NCommander is coming across as very toxic to me. An example is a post he made in a previous story [archive.org] that was lost due to downtime:

    I'm going to just flat out say it, its comments and users like this (since admins can see who is behind a "Posting Anonymously") thing like this that is why this site went to shit. I haven't written a new policy on banning, but quite frankly, you are the entire reason it needs to exist.

    This comment makes NCommander come across like a complete asshole. If he had simply said that users who post destructive comments like the one he replied to should be banned, and that he would consider enacting a policy, I would view it as harsh and reasonable. As NCommander suggested, the user didn't actually break the site's rules, but is posting unhelpful and disruptive comments. However, the part about admins being able to see who posts AC comments comes across like someone who is using his authority to target people. It's the same sort of behavior that people accused TMB of engaging in, and it is toxic.

    The meta article NCommander posted doesn't appear to be soliciting feedback. It appears to me that you listen, try to talk to respectful users, and indicate when you understand and even agree with their concerns. I disagree with you somewhat frequently, but I appreciate that you're respectful and seem to deeply care about the concerns of users here. NCommander's article doesn't appear to solicit any feedback, just saying that he's dictating what he wants for this site. If I understand the management of this site, he has the right to do so. However, the attitude alienates a lot of people in the process, because it doesn't appear like there's an effort to listen to users' concerns. When AC comments on front page articles were initially restricted, there was a clear problem in that APK was spamming every article with tens of comments. NCommander hasn't really articulated the need for the changes he's discussing, instead decreeing that they are just going to happen.

    You're doing a lot of work to engage people in good faith about these issues. Again, while we have disagreed on a lot, you also have a lot of patience to put up with criticism and frustrated users. You're here trying to discuss the issue, and I see exactly zero of that from NCommander. It's clear that he's technically very adept, but being technically adept doesn't necessarily make for a good leader.

    Perhaps I've judged NCommander too harshly due to the lack of past interactions with him, but his actions appear quite toxic to me.

    As for addressing the site's problems, part of the issue is that there are a lot of low-quality journals to begin with. Let's quote some text from a Runaway journal [soylentnews.org]:

    Don't let the door hit you in the ass, Bitch. And take some of these other senile sons of bitches with you!

    She finally got one thing right, if inadvertantly.

    a citizen of the greatest Republic in the history of the world.

    The Republic should revoke her citizenship.

    There is exactly zero chance that this will lead to productive discussion. Garbage in, garbage out. Banning ACs in all journals isn't going to solve a problem, particularly when that power is already provided to the authors of journals, and when the journals are of such poor quality to begin with.

    If you look back at old school Slashdot, it had a ton of shitposting. There were far more outright destructive comments there than you see here, and it wasn't uncommon in stories to have tens of comments at -1. The crapflooding wasn't beneficial, but there were more than enough quality comments to make it only a minor issue. The high quality comments far outweighed the spam.

    For this site, removing the noise only does so much when the signal is weak. Instead of eliminating the noise, perhaps the focus should be on boosting the signal. Many of Slashdot's stories focused on open source, programming, computer hardware, and issues that relate to IT. There were articles about science and about things relevant to nerds, but the site had a clear focus. A lot of users felt like they could offer meaningful comments, so there were robust discussions. A clear focus around similar topics, in addition to the science articles, might well help. Curating the journals that appear on the front page might help, so that less enmity develops between users. Runaway's journal that I cited does nothing to help the site, but the discussions could lead to bitterness that would carry over to other discussions.

    I think a clear appeal for specific help, things like editing computing articles or contributing such articles, might get more of a response. I suspect that people don't volunteer because it could be a significant time commitment, it seems like there's a huge amount of work that needs to be done, and the job appears thankless. But if I were to start somewhere, I'd focus on boosting the signal instead of eliminating the noise. Grow a community with a focus on topics like open source, programming, IT, hardware, gaming, and other common interests. Right now, even if I weren't posting AC, the percentage of comments that I could really provide a constructive comment about is somewhat small.

    I recognize the first part of this post was criticizing NCommander, but I've also tried to suggest an alternative path forward. Everyone seems focused on eliminating the noise from discussions. Why not focus on increasing the signal to drown out the noise? As for my views on NCommander, let's just say I appreciate when leaders are humble, genuinely listen to people's concerns, and then try their best to make the right decisions going forward. Again, I've disagreed with you on many things, but I do see all of these traits in you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 21 2022, @09:42PM (#1280897)

      Runaway is the bad poster, but equivalent opposing posts, aren't raising hackles at all, right? I mean... correct?

      It's academic; the civil folks have left. No, academic isn't the right word for it. Yeah...

      fingers working faster than my brain:

      DELETE: After all, each connection to the server provides the id_rsa.pub anyway.

      Rubs the wrong way.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @10:07AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @10:07AM (#1282638)

    Quoth yon janrinok, he of the lean and butthurt look:

    I further my promise that I will try to represent your views as honestly and fairly as I can.

    If you abuse this journal then you are simply giving more support to the alternative options that might be considered than you are to the status quo. I encourage you to expresses sensible, logical and considered views but should you decide that abuse is what you prefer then this journal entry can simply be removed. You are being given an opportunity - do not throw it away.

    Nice, we don't have to throw it away, Ncommander apparently did it for us. I recall there being several hundred inciteful AC comments posted to this journal entry, but they have vanished. And now janrinok is taking umbrage. Not sure what it is supposed to cure, but better than him encouraging the pushing of horse paste.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday December 16 2022, @02:06PM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday December 16 2022, @02:06PM (#1282658) Journal

      I am neither 'butthurt' nor have I taken umbrage. NCommander was suggesting lots of things, including that all AC posting should be stopped - I actually created this journal to ensure that you could give your own points of view. My journal entry is still here and you can read every AC comment in it. It has patently not been taken away by anyone. You are still writing in it.

      The truth is that by Anonymous Coward deciding he spoke for everyone in an entirely different discussion he effectively shut down that discussion. Not a single AC said that they would accept the proposal (I have a personal copy of many of the comments). I promised to represent the views of all ACs. Therefore the proposal will go no further for the time being.

      You have just realised that :

      • You have now thrown away your only chance of ACs returning to the front pages - you could have been anonymous yet accountable but that was unacceptable. I also said that without accountability you would not get access to the front pages.
      • Any argument that you might have had for keeping AC posting without first logging in anywhere on this site is serious damaged by your own actions. You do not want to be accountable for your actions. Welcome to the real world.

      I recall there being several hundred inciteful AC comments posted to this journal entry,

      I think you mean insightful, which has an entirely different meaning.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @07:47PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @07:47PM (#1282739)

        No, I meant "insiteful inciteful, as in "full of incision". There were hundreds of comments, lost in the most recent "accidental" site reset that wiped out nearly all evidence of opposition to janrinok's dastardly plan. I (using the Imperial AC "we") just want the site to shut down, now. Let it go, janrinok, just let it go. Ncommander has gone. It is over.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 26 2022, @06:07AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 26 2022, @06:07AM (#1283997)

    The end has been written. It is all but over now. There will be no more SoylentNews, no discussion, no debate, only dictat from the center, from the core, from the janrinok. We accept this, and we leave. Not that complicated. Very simple, as a matter of fact. Nice run, good try, epic failure.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 26 2022, @06:39AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 26 2022, @06:39AM (#1284000)

      o wow aristarchus left AGAIN

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