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TV Meteorologists all, every single one, are victims of our abysmal educational system. It shuts off children’s thinking and demands they not learn, but memorize. For example, history class. I always hated history until I reached college. In public school, they want you to memorize names and dates without ever mentioning why those names and dates are important, or how what happened in the past affects you and can happen again.
So like almost everyone else in our once great nation that has fallen greatly at the hands of the rich and the politicians they have purchased, meteorologists don’t think. It’s a wonder they could graduate college after the damage done in public school. Let’s outlaw private school! If the rich were forced to attend public school, things would vastly change for the better, because they would be well funded.
So it’s no surprise that their “feels like” temperature calculations are missing variables, the first thing wrong with “feels like”. In the summer, the formula takes into account temperature and humidity, since hot wet air feels hotter than hot dry air. But two eighty degree days with identical humidities will feel different if one has a breeze. It won’t feel as hot.
But they leave that variable out. Laziness, perhaps?
In the winter, it’s temperature and wind. But then they ignore humidity, which does the opposite in the winter; on two windless days with identical temperatures, the high humidity day will feel colder than the low humidity day. But they ignore humidity in the winter.
Summer or winter, the wind affects temperature. But the wind almost always changes, never a steady speed all day, making any “feels like” temperature flat out wrong almost any minute of any day.
The one break I’ll cut them is that their science is still in its infancy, not really existing at all until we put up satellites. Maybe someone from Sweden or somewhere that they value education and teachers will set our dumbass meteorologists straight.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday April 26, @02:23PM (24 children)
TV is lowest common denominator. You're doing it wrong if you go there for intelligent anything.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26, @03:58PM
We rarely watch TV news and its even more rare that we watch the TV weather report....
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dalek on Wednesday April 26, @11:57PM (6 children)
This journal isn't even close to being accurate. Neither is your comment.
There's a lot of variance in the quality of TV meteorologists. However, being called a meteorologist on TV implies a college degree that includes specific coursework. Occasionally, you'll see someone with a title like "forecaster" or something like that, which can be an indication that the person doesn't actually have a meteorology background.
I don't know if the TV meteorologists that the journal author is complaining about are on cable or local TV stations. But even on a cable outlet like the Weather Channel, there are big differences in the on-air personalities. Their hurricane expert is Rick Knabb, who was the director of NOAA's Central Pacific Hurricane Center for a few years and later was the director of the National Hurricane Center. Although those are management level positions, they're held by people with a background in hurricane forecasting and substantial forecasting experience. Greg Forbes used to be on there as a severe weather expert. Before he went on TV, he was a meteorology professor at Penn State, which has a well-respected meteorology program. Forbes did his Ph.D. under Ted Fujita, who was an expert on tornadoes and created the Fujita Scale. Back in the 90s, John Hope was their hurricane expert. Before he went into TV, he was a forecaster at the National Hurricane Center and had peer-reviewed papers published in very reputable journals. These are some of the most knowledgeable and best qualified people anywhere in the world to forecast tropical cyclones and severe thunderstorms. Even Jim Cantore has an M.S. in meteorology to go along with decades of experience, and he understands the science very well.
I know quite a few broadcast meteorologists fairly well. There's a wide variance in their understanding of the science. Sure, there are people who just want to be on TV and don't really care about learning the science. There are also other people who are very good forecasters and understand the science quite well. I know plenty of examples of both categories who are on TV. Also, being a TV meteorologist doesn't mean only preparing and delivering weather forecasts. Local TV stations often ask their meteorologists to also do reporting and other duties that they wouldn't have been asked to do in the past. Even if the TV meteorologist really cares about the science, making a good forecast, and educating their viewers, the news director and station management may well have other priorities.
In terms of college, there are some schools that have specialized broadcast meteorology programs. I'm thinking of Mississippi State, in particular. But a lot of TV meteorologists also go through the standard meteorology coursework like synoptic meteorology and dynamics. In particular, there are often two semester of dynamics, and it is heavily focused on the equations that describe atmospheric processes. Dynamic meteorology applies the math from the three semesters of calculus that are generally required for a meteorology degree. Synoptic tends to be more applied toward practical applications in forecasting, but a good synoptic course will still have a fair amount of math in it. Courses like mesoscale meteorology also tend to have a considerable amount of math. They're not easy courses, and a large portion of TV meteorologists have completed all of them as part of their degrees.
Your generalization really isn't helpful. As for the journal author's comments, heat index and wind chill are based on laboratory experiments. They're imperfect, and both have been updated based on new data and equations since they were originally introduced. Even with the caveats and limitations, wind chill and heat index are based on high quality research studies. Neither takes into account whether you're in direct sunlight versus not being in sunlight at all, which also affects how hot or cold you feel. But the limitations and caveats don't invalidate the science, which focused on the combined effect of temperature and either wind speed or humidity.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @01:11AM (1 child)
Real tv meteorologists tend to display their AMS certification. The rest are usually weather readers.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by dalek on Thursday April 27, @03:24AM
There are at least two professional organizations in the US that certify broadcast meteorologists. One is the American Meteorological Society (AMS). The other that I know of is the National Weather Association (NWA). Both have conferences and operate at least some journals. However, NWA is considerably smaller and is much more focused on operational meteorology. AMS operates more journals that generally have higher impact, and have more of a focus on research than NWA does. Both provide certifications for broadcast meteorologists and are legitimate organizations, but viewers might not understand what these organizations are. I know more about the AMS certification than about NWA, though I'm far from an expert on this.
In principle, certifications should indicate that the meteorologist is highly competent. Unfortunately, at least with AMS (don't know about NWA), it's a bit more complicated. The AMS certification is relatively new, replacing the old AMS seal of approval, which hasn't been granted since 2008. Many broadcasters who had the seal of approval were able to convert it to being a certified broadcast meteorologist. The problem is that the standards have changed over time, and the requirements to become a certified broadcast meteorologist are much higher than they were to get a seal of approval. However, meteorologists who received their certification when the standards were lower are grandfathered in. Because the standards have changed over time, the certification doesn't mean as much as if everyone was required to meet the current (highest) standards.
I believe that meteorologists have to renew their certification from time to time. A meteorologist is only supposed to display the certification on air if they've renewed it and are currently in good standing with AMS. However, I am aware of at least one meteorologist whose certification lapsed but they still display it on air as if they're still in good standing. To my knowledge, AMS has no real mechanism to enforce this. They do have a website (which appears to be down right now) that lists everyone who is certified as a broadcast meteorologist. However, I suspect very few viewers would actually check on this to verify that someone showing the certification on air is actually certified. I don't think there's really any mechanism for AMS to take action against people or stations who improperly display a certification.
If you search around online, you can find some other criticisms of the AMS certification. I don't know as much about the NWA certification. In principle, it's a great idea to have independent organizations certify the competency of broadcast meteorologists. Unfortunately, at least with AMS, the execution is somewhat flawed.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @04:42AM (2 children)
What's inaccurate about my post? You spoke on and on about the education of meteorologists. That's completely irrelevant to my argument. You didn't say one word about the education of TV viewers.
You're doing it wrong.
(Score: 1) by dalek on Thursday April 27, @06:37AM (1 child)
I interpreted your post as a criticism of TV meteorologists, that other meteorologists are better than what you see on TV. If that's an incorrect interpretation, then I apologize. However, the journal is certainly a harsh and very unfair criticism of meteorologists.
I've heard from many TV meteorologists that they don't really agree with the management of their stations. During severe weather, meteorologists would generally prefer that you see the radar on TV. Management probably prefers to have the meteorologist on the screen instead of showing the radar. Meteorologists generally don't like fake radar sweeps (radar data is distributed one sweep at a time, not one ray at a time), but producers like them. If the TV station pays some third party for graphics like model forecasts, the producer expects them to be shown during the forecast. Management expects these to be shown, even if they don't add anything to the forecast, and even if the meteorologist's forecast disagrees with the graphics from the third party. Management often wins out, unfortunately, at the expense of the quality of the weather forecasts.
Like I said, there is some variance in the quality of TV meteorologists, but I don't think generalizations like in the journal post are helpful at all.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest just whinge about SN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @09:36AM
I dunno whether the Mexicans are doing it wrong or right by you two, but... 😉
https://youtu.be/ePG6zUYvUZg [youtu.be]
https://youtu.be/YZeAtinpWiw [youtu.be]
(Score: 3, Funny) by sjames on Wednesday May 03, @11:13PM
There's an easy way to tell them apart. If, during a night of severe weather they have a perfect unbroken serious and concerned face, they're just presenters reading off a card. If excitement slips through their demeanor, they're actual meteorologists.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @01:03AM (7 children)
Every accusation is a confession.
"Stop grooming kids." - Has the most convicted pedophiles by a wide margin.
"You're violent!" - Has over 95% of all domestic terrorists in their cohort
"You're fascist!" - Proceeds to remove and eliminate all opposing views and positions.
"Climate scientists lie!" - Uses oil industry studies as proof
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @04:57AM (6 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @02:43PM (5 children)
So you must be the weirdo resorting to "I know you are but what am I" replies when getting repeatedly fact checked in discussions. Even Runaway does not have the same level of factual denials as you, and that is just sad.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @08:23PM (4 children)
And yet you're the one crap posting. You need to rethink who is the weirdo.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @11:12PM (3 children)
Khallow!!!!! That thing we talked about? You asked to be notified when you were doing it again, and you are doing it again. Sometimes silence is the better part of valour, and the highs will be in the 80's today, but it will feel like minus forty to you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 28, @01:04AM (2 children)
And we see now the earlier claim was bullshit. Who knew?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 03, @09:43PM (1 child)
How does your brain work? Just blind assertions, even your facts are just regurgitated assumptions and the rare citation usually refutes your own point.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 06, @07:45PM
I didn't blindly assert "Every accusation is a confession." Is the above blind accusation a confession on your part, hmmm?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @04:04AM (7 children)
I used to think that the US had no long term strategy since 1980 in regards to education. Then the other week, reality finally sunk in. I have been mistaken about the strategy being missing, it is there all right but most unfortunately that strategy is one of divestment.
The world is in a race to the bottom in that regard. Yes, Sweden's schools are, for the time being, still higher quality than the US schools and the same for Finland and so on. However, compared to what they were even 10 years ago, the quality of education (and working conditions for the teachers) have become quite poor. Compared to what they were 20 years ago, they are garbage. Finland, for example, rated top in the PISA scores during a period when there was a far-right administration in power and while the school system was too popular to attack directly, they went at it hammer-and-tongs behind the scenes until it was crippled and on a path of deterioration. That administration was replaced by a coalition which valued education, but the repair has been slow and expensive and now their mandate period is over and in all likelihood the damage and undercutting will resume. There is a constant drone of "saving" money by cutting education by, among other methods, closing schools and increasing class sizes. It has been shown time and again that any money "saved" in the short term from education costs society tenfold over the coming years. So by cutting education they are not only not saving anything and just kicking some debt down the road a few years but actually ensuring that the overall costs eventually rise.
How bad is it? Here is one anecdote. With many of the schools now closed, high school kids are pushed into large classroom with over 40 pupils per session. The teachers spend all their time playing with some kind of administrative software which micromanages their every move and the lectures are provided by a video. Kids with questions about the subject allegedly being taught via the video are dismissed with advice to look for material "on the net". It's bad enough that some have to drop out.
Both Sweden and Finland now allow and encourage private schools. The unwritten reason is so that madrassas can be legally established within the borders. However, the main reason being promoted is so that the aforementioned videos and video-based education can be outsourced to other countries.
The point is that the oligarchs of the world use the US as a testbed for various attacks and then port the attacks to other countries over time. Now that several full generations in the US have been affected by the national policy of divestment from education, and militant ignorance has become the foundation of culture, the model is being spread to other countries. It will take coordinated national and maybe even coordinated international effort to turn it around. Those in the age group to make that push are Gen X and the Millennials, in part because Gen Z and younger and not American culturally but hostiles from Tiktokistan [medium.com], and in part because Gen X and the Millennials are the last ones to have either experienced education or heard of it second hand.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @04:55AM (5 children)
I think the hidden story here is the growing fiscal dysfunction of Finland's government. Spend more than you collect in revenue and the drone of the cost cutters grows louder. Here, in 2008 Finland's publicly held debt to GDP ratio was 32.6% [statista.com]. In 2021, that ratio had increased massively to 65.8% by the same measures.
Create a problem by public policy and voters will start switching to groups who attempt to fix that problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @07:13AM (4 children)
Ah yes. Picking the debt to GDP ratio for the year immediately before one of the largest worldwide financial crises to compare to a year immediately after another of the largest worldwide financial crises. Totally not picking the two worst possible years to compare.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @09:13AM
Are you suggesting that khallow is arguing in bad faith? Hold my beer, I feel faint!!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @02:35PM (2 children)
Crises will happen in the future too. What's not happening is a paying down of that debt. At the current increase of debt per crisis (~15% of GDP), Finland is about 8 crises away from present Greek levels of indebtedness.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27, @03:30PM (1 child)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 27, @08:24PM
I wonder how many cycles it'll take for Finland to German bank itself? I think 8 crises worth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 28, @04:34AM
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26, @02:43PM (1 child)
> “feels like” temperature calculations
Psychometric charts have existed for decades, I think first done when the effects of air conditioning were being worked out in the mid-1900s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics [wikipedia.org] They are part of the picture, but not all.
Here's one more modern attempt to extend to human comfort, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_temperature [wikipedia.org]
In a heat & vent (HVAC) class I took (long ago!) we used human comfort charts, these might have been made by mixing some subjective data (on a sample of people) with psychometric data, iirc they included air speed. To be really useful they also need to include radiation temps (are you in the sun or shade, is there a heated floor radiating at you, etc) and probably some other factors as well...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday April 29, @06:28PM
Air speed inside a building is negligible unless you're standing on the vent. You don't have five mile an hour breezes in a building, let alone fluctuating between three and ten miles per hour. Those studies are valid, bur only apply indoors, which is what probably caused meteorologists' mistake.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 26, @02:58PM (1 child)
We brought our son with Autism to a "Charter School" to interview with the principal for a possible placement. She had "Celebrating School Choice!" posters spread on the tables, then proceeded to shut us down based on her first glance at his IEP (which we had e-mailed to her before even getting the meeting.) Around here "School Choice" means the school gets to choose whether you can attend or not, and our experience with children with Autism (not cute little awkward Aspergers, we're talking about the heavy verbal communication challenge Autism) is that we can get in one of two public schools: either the one closest to our home as guaranteed by Federal law - but, let me tell you this: odds are that school will be so "poorly equipped" to deal with Autism (even though they are required to provide all necessary supports IN THAT SCHOOL) that you are better off opting for the "center school" they setup to better serve children with "Special Needs" - and the quality of those center schools ranges from absolutely abysmal (staff injured on a regular basis: concussions, shoulder injuries, spinal surgery required, etc.) to merely average in the overall public school system. Of course, you always have the option to home school, and Florida will generously incentivise you with about 1/3 the cash they would spend on your student if you sent them to a public school, providing you spend 100 hours a year applying for the funding, submitting your approved expenses, arguing why the clearly approved expense should be reimbursed, etc. So, yeah, if you want to run a private school, you should be required to serve a representative sample of the local student population - not pick and choose who gets admitted to your little walled garden where you teach children that everyone is just like they are and challenges in life are to be ignored, shuffled off for others to deal with, etc.
So, as this relates to our local meteorologists: I feel like you should distinguish between the eye candy on the local news and the people who actually study the science and have some passion about accurate prediction and communication... around here it seems to run well over 90% of the eye candy variety, both in the weather department and the rest of the TV journalism crews as well. You can hope that the eye candy is trying to communicate what the smaller number of passionate weather predictors are forecasting, but that frequently seems optimistic. Cynically, our meteorological eye candy mostly seem to be trying to climb the ladder of fame to a news anchor spot, or acting career, or something along those lines - and both news anchor and acting seem to be increasingly valid (commonly used) gateways to political office, after all: lots of voters know them from TV, so... and if you want to tie this back to the public / private education system, how does a cute little cupcake get a spot on the evening news or weather? Connections. Connections that start in school, continue in college and social meetings before "professional" life even begins. Connections that are effectively segregated along social/financial class lines by "School Choice," among other things. While the higher class schools may be "better" for their pupils graduating into a successful / desirable life after school, I believe it has less to do with the quality of the education they are receiving and more to do with who they rub elbows with throughout school. The better schools may try to get better teachers / professors, but the question is: what's their criteria for better? Academic / scientific excellence wouldn't seem to be their top criteria.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mcgrew on Saturday April 29, @06:37PM
My daughter, too, was a special ed student with speech problems. They thought she was deaf when she was three, but has better hearing than anyone I know.
"School choice" is about as honest as "right to work." Why is there any unemployment in right to work states if working is a right?
The trouble with all journalism is that the media are all owned and controlled by the very rich, or we would all know that in 1940, nobody earning over four times the median income paid any Federal tax. First they steal our labor (for the minimum wage to buy 10 McDonald's hamburgers like 1965 it would be $24.90/hr), then they steal what they've paid us by having us pay THEIR taxes!
There are no moral billionaires.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 3, Disagree) by istartedi on Wednesday April 26, @04:33PM
Monopoly on anything is probably not going to get you the outcome you want. Rich people will send their kids away to a boarding school in another state, or even tutor at home. Heels will dig in, we're talking about people's children here. It's a non-starter. Poor people would be stuck in your state with a public education monopoly. If they do it nationwide, the richest of the rich will send their kids to a boarding school in another country--like Kim Jong Un, who IIRC went to a boarding school in Switzerland.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RamiK on Wednesday April 26, @08:56PM (1 child)
Wind chill [wikipedia.org] doesn't track humidity since it's stable in winter while heat index [wikipedia.org] doesn't track winds since they're too unstable in the summer.
Other variables are too unstable across full-day predictions so they're only used by proprietary online services like AccuWeather.com' RealFeel™️ that update and breakdown predictions on an hourly basis over at their website / app. I think some radio stations report at that resolutions in some places but it's really too-much-information for TV/radio.
Either way, they're not ignorant of the problems. They just can't do much about them.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26, @10:21PM
An additional problem is that different combinations feel different to different people depending on their acclimation. For the perfect example of that you can compare the heat index with the humidex. Because the average person in Canada experiences different weather than the average person in the USA, they give different apparent temperatures.
You can actually calculate the heat index including every variable considered by Steadman instead of the standard values (You can do the same with wind chill, WBGT, and other apparent temperatures), but meteorologists usually stick to the standard values because that results in more comparable numbers. People already have enough trouble understanding the differences between temperature, heat index, and wind chill without presenting the full complexity.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday April 27, @09:57PM
In the event that I'm tracking serious weather, I break out the weather radio and listen to my local NOAA channel. We used to be active in the local Ham Radio club and my Dad would go out when there was bad weather as a spotter (generally for tornadoes, but spotters also report hail size sometimes too). He also went to several other local functions for ham operators. I ended up getting my Tech License, but ended up not renewing. Most Ham Radio operators do it for the social interaction. My Dad had a list of people operating in different countries he'd contacted over the years. It's an interesting hobby.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"